Women as Preachers: Does God's word authorize this???

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MEN & WOMEN: Agree or disagree with women preaching & leading in churches.

  • Total voters
    37
C

Closemyeyes2cU

Guest
#481
#481
You think peoples biases dont have a strong influence on how they choose to interpret the Bible? Just look at the poll above. Is it coincidence that the majority of women say its ok for women to preach and the majority of man say its not ok? Are men just being chauvinists? Are women just defending their own sex?

We have to first acknowledge that we have biases and then we have to recognize what these biases are. Then we can keep them at bay and put them aside best as possible and just let scripture speak instead of forcing our biases into the text.

Thats one of the reason there are so many different interpretations of scriptures. We are falling sinful beings who allow our selfish personal desires, likes, and dislikes to blind us to what scripture is really saying.
 
Mediate

Mediate

Banned
#482
Dec 14, 2009
1,400
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#482
eternally-gratefull said:
Lev 20: 9 ‘ If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him.

Anyone would include a child
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Leviticus would also include that there is a law of sin and death and Jesus hadn't yet physically fulfilled the debt owed for sin . .
 
Mediate

Mediate

Banned
#483
Dec 14, 2009
1,400
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#483
The language barrier also doesn't help . . put to death . . again . . 'to remove' . . but anyway . .
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#484
#484
I accidently posted disagree, I ment to vote agree.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#485
#485
Mediate said:
So let me ask you something. Does Jesus say 'I have this one commandment: kill thy neighbour whenever you please?'
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All I did was post scripture. Now you condemn the scripture that was posted. Interesante.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#486
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
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#486
Although a woman has absolutly no place serving in the pulpit this does not meat that WHAT she is teaching is false, only that she has no right to occupy this position. When King Saul became impatient awaiting the arrival of Samuel, he took it upon himself to offer the sacrifice. Although he offered the sacrifice that was required and offered it in the proper manor, he was still opperating outside the will of God. He had to right to offer the sacrifice. As a consequence he received a rather severe repramand from Samuel besause he had not honored the will of God regardind WHO was allowed to offer the sacrifice. "To obey is better that sacrifice." This principle still stands. Do not assume positions that God has not authhorized you in his word to occupy.
 
E

edward99

Guest
#488
#488
InstructorusRex said:
Please don't. I shudder to think I would ever accept a god as moral who commands the murder of innocent children.

On the basis that concepts of morality only make sense when they directly relate to the suffering and well-being of conscious beings. Since our consciousness is rooted in our brain, and our brain functions within the confines of natural laws, then experiences of suffering and well being can be reduced down to facts. Case in point, we don't need to rely on divine morality today to recognize that someone who thinks that suffering is good isn't worth taking seriously - we simply recognize that that line of thinking is psychopathic. In much the same way, we can recognize that someone asserting that because their scriptures tell them to murder people it is their moral imperative to do so are obviously unhinged, not to mention downright dangerous.

On what basis do you assert that God is moral?
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Planned Parenthood v. Casey
Main article: Planned Parenthood v. Casey

During initial deliberations for Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992), an initial majority of five Justices (Rehnquist, White, Scalia, Kennedy, and Thomas) were willing to effectively overturn Roe. Kennedy changed his mind after the initial conference,[82] and O'Connor, Kennedy, and Souter joined Blackmun and Stevens to reaffirm the central holding of Roe,[83] saying, "At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life."[84] Only Justice Blackmun would have retained Roe entirely and struck down all aspects of the statute at issue in Casey.

Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Odd how the baby isn't the one who gets to decide about their own concept of existence; meaning' of the universe; and the "mystery" of human life.

TOTAL ABORTIONS SINCE 1973:
54,559,615

"At the heart of liberty is the right to....."
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#489
#489
eternally-gratefull said:
I accidently posted disagree, I ment to vote agree.
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I accidentally voted 'agree,' I meant to vote, 'disagree.' ;)

oldhermit said:
Although a woman has absolutly no place serving in the pulpit this does not meat that WHAT she is teaching is false, only that she has no right to occupy this position. When King Saul became impatient awaiting the arrival of Samuel, he took it upon himself to offer the sacrifice. Although he offered the sacrifice that was required and offered it in the proper manor, he was still opperating outside the will of God. He had to right to offer the sacrifice. As a consequence he received a rather severe repramand from Samuel besause he had not honored the will of God regardind WHO was allowed to offer the sacrifice. "To obey is better that sacrifice." This principle still stands. Do not assume positions that God has not authhorized you in his word to occupy.
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The word 'preach' needs to be rightly analyzed.

Let's start by analyzing it in verses of 1 Timothy 2: 11 and 12.

Oh, that was easy (tried Staples ;) ) , the word 'preach' is not in either of those two verses, and, if...

...women usurping (swallowing) authority of a man = 'preach,' then show me how you come to that conclusion.
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What about another thought, what if this is an isolated teaching to the wicked Artemis (women as priests, men submission to women) god-believing members of this particular church that God preached, too? God really, I mean, Paul, really PREACHED to the Ephesians, hard PREACHING, told them to put on the 'full armor of God,' didn't he. Men were being unruly in this church, told them to be 'praying everywhere, without wrath and doubting.' Doesn't that mean this church had a bad case of faith problems?

One other relative thought....

What if this preaching IS for all men and women, for how both should act DURING a church meeting.

This interpretation--and, I pray as we speak this subject we work to His understanding all for us, His Truth given unto us :)-- would effectively eliminate Paul saying women cannot preach, or, teach, for that matter, because Paul simply is saying that women need to submit to a man, typically this refers to her husband, I think, because other scripture validates the 'all submission.' And, submitting .all submission' to just any common man is foolishness to think, isn't it?
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#490
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
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#490
The command is quite pointed and clear. "I sufer a woman not to speak OR have authority over the man." We cannot keep one part of the prohabition and disregard the other. It cannot be rationalixe or explained away. We can only either accept and obey it or we can disregard it.
 
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Dude653

Dude653

Senior Member
#491
Mar 19, 2011
12,668
1,098
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#491
oldhermit said:
The command is quite pointed and clear. "I sufer a woman not to speak OR have authority over the man." We cannot keep one part of the prohabition and disregard the other. It cannot be rationalixe or explained away. We can only either accept and obey it or we can disregard it.
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again,,,notice how it says I suffer not a woman to speak...i say again it says I. This is Paul stating his opinion. Paul is not my God. This is taking Paul's words out of context and making an idol of Paul.
 
I

InstructorusRex

Guest
#492
#492
edward99 said:
Are you FOR the "woman's right to choose" to have her baby murdered in the womb?...I mean "reproductive rights" etc etc.
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If we base morality upon the suffering of conscious living creatures then I don't see how we possibly could justify inflicting suffering and death upon obviously conscious unborn children.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#493
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
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#493
Dude653 said:
again,,,notice how it says I suffer not a woman to speak...i say again it says I. This is Paul stating his opinion. Paul is not my God. This is taking Paul's words out of context and making an idol of Paul.
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It is important that we understand that scripture is not time contengent. Truth is always equidistant to both time and culture. What I mean by this is that it does not matter that the N.T. letters were addressed to specific geographical or cultural groups. The principles that are given are uiversal and apply to christians in every culture and in every time. Regarding this particulat subject, Paul tells the Corinthian church in 1Cor. 14:33-38, that this restriction is to be observed in ALL the chrurches and that anyone who does not recognize that this is "the Lord's commandment," is not to be recognized. To attempt to justify one's disregard for this restriction on the basis of one's desire or even one's ability to teach or preach as a women will simply not overturn what has been commanded. We cannot offer scenarios to argue against the text in order to defend what WE want to do. Somehow we fell that scripture will not stand against the logical argument. What it boils down to is "what I want" vs what the Word of God says.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#494
#494
I guess we ignore all the women who were in authority Paul praised and honored in his letters, thats prety sad. Paul had a reason to say what he did to the corinthian church, he was being all thing to all people. He was directing it to them, and any church in any nation where it would offend people if women held authority. I think we are too legalistic on this matter.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#495
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
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#495
Dude653 said:
again,,,notice how it says I suffer not a woman to speak...i say again it says I. This is Paul stating his opinion. Paul is not my God. This is taking Paul's words out of context and making an idol of Paul.
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Paul wanted to make sure that there was no doubt as to the source of what he was instructing that came from the abundance of revelation that was given to him by the Lord Jesus Christ. That revelation came from no other and he verifies that revelation from the beginning and brings it up to date to be practiced in the church when it come to communicating the word and doctrine through preaching and teaching to the assembly of the church. If a pastor-teacher of a local assembling asks a woman to come and share her portion with a testimony from the word to build up and edify the body of Christ, I see no violation of any commandment because she would not be usurping any authority and would be responding to her pastor who are over her in the Lord.
 
G

GreenNnice

Guest
#496
#496
Red33 said:
Paul wanted to make sure that there was no doubt as to the source of what he was instructing that came from the abundance of revelation that was given to him by the Lord Jesus Christ. That revelation came from no other and he verifies that revelation from the beginning and brings it up to date to be practiced in the church when it come to communicating the word and doctrine through preaching and teaching to the assembly of the church. If a pastor-teacher of a local assembling asks a woman to come and share her portion with a testimony from the word to build up and edify the body of Christ, I see no violation of any commandment because she would not be usurping any authority and would be responding to her pastor who are over her in the Lord.
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It's important to lead others, reddy, and, not judge them, a word for the day for us all.

This subject can be highly divissive among Christians, as I think Paul said in this same chapter that we are to have the understanding of Jesus in deciphering things, and that was verse 6? and the next verses are of the controversy.
 
B

Bea22

Guest
#497
#497
tribesman said:
How about women who sit here at the board or elsewhere on the web and teach a mixed audience?
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Perhaps you can ask Robo if you can have a discussion area where all the men can speak on their own topics and women can view the threads but cannot type in to add.That way, men can still get their preaching to both sexes, but women cannot add anything.


And the women - so as not to be seen as teaching or usurping authority - will just stick to the ladies forum if they want to have a discussion about, well, anything. And that goes for chat rooms too.



Even better, ask Robo to create a male only website, which women can view but cannot participate on!
A total call for segregation online ;)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#498
#498
i think woman have the right to build up all the wood hay and stubble they want
 
B

Bea22

Guest
#499
#499
Lol how did it even turn into me defending women? I'm not on their side to preach. Unfortunately, to express my view about it using scripture to a mixed audience is me preaching... Lol I can see it.. so yeah I really am shutting up on this thread. Not another word :)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#500
#500
Bea22 said:
Lol how did it even turn into me defending women? I'm not on their side to preach. Unfortunately, to express my view about it using scripture to a mixed audience is me preaching... Lol I can see it.. so yeah I really am shutting up on this thread. Not another word :)
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oh my what a conundrum...ha
 
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