A statement following has to be interpreted in the context of the preceding statement. Covet to prophecy and forbid not to speak in tongues, is understood to mean for the men only in a mixed group because Paul already established that in a mixed group(men and women) the men were to do the speaking. 1Tim is about Paul writing to the Ephesus CHURCH where he had left Timothy to set things in order...Paul said I suffer not a woman to teach or to usurp authority over the man... a church setting is where Christians are taught so that had to be a church setting. Also, whether or not the woman is married is irrelevant, that would be like saying a married woman can not be a pastor of a church but a single woman can.
Women Pastors? Help me.
- Thread starter DevonS
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Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
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And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a sham e for women to speak in
Church. Sorry about the miss line in my posts on my phone
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a sham e for women to speak in
Church. Sorry about the miss line in my posts on my phone
Well, you've already established that the married women can't speak, because they have to ask their husbands at home. So the unmarried women don't get their questions answered at all. According to you women can't speak at church (the pastor's office is at the church, usually) so they can't ask the pastor either. Ridiculous. That's exactly the kind of situation which Paul was seeking to undo, not perpetuate.
If you followed your own principle in the first sentence, you would see just how ridiculous your conclusion is. Check 1 Corinthians 11:5... which comes before ch.14. Also, Paul's letter to Timothy likely would not have been available to the Church at Corinth, so taking "precedent" from one letter and applying it to another (likely earlier) letter doesn't fly.
If you followed your own principle in the first sentence, you would see just how ridiculous your conclusion is. Check 1 Corinthians 11:5... which comes before ch.14. Also, Paul's letter to Timothy likely would not have been available to the Church at Corinth, so taking "precedent" from one letter and applying it to another (likely earlier) letter doesn't fly.
S
First of all Paul was speaking to both men and women not just men and second of all the letter was to all Ephesian believers but it was not addressing corporate functions as he was in 1 Corinthians 14, he was addressing family life functions in the section that you say is for all women. A Church setting may be where you learned about Christianity but in the first century that was not always the case and in this section of 1st Timothy Paul was addressing the community and family life not the corporate life. if you believe it was then you've got many more contradictions from Paul that you just won't be able to resolve unless you're used to having a lot of cognitive dissonance in your life. The Greek word ἀδελφός (adelphos) connotes a member of the Christian community, both men and women. If you really study Greek why don't you know that?
Did Paul tell Timothy that he left him in Ephesus to help with family life, or to establish the church. To establish the church for sure. It is ludicrous to believe that Timothy went from house to house telling the women to be quite and let their husbands speak. I got news for you, a Christian woman could always speak all she wanted in her own home. The only restriction was in a church assembly the men were to led.
S
All this post does is demonstrate your clear lack of understanding when it comes to context. Paul wasn't writing about speaking, He was writing about order in the home and that the woman is not to take the spiritual leadership in the home. That does not mean that a woman cannot be a pastor and how you get from one verse like this to your ultimate conclusion is a leap of incredulity that most people can't make. Even when you know your position contradicts a lot of other things that Paul taught, you still hang on to it like a man possessed, incapable of using rationale or reasoning.
Hmmm...so Paul was preaching law when he said: so also sayeth the law? Or is there something we might be missing? because Paul was very adamant all over the place that he was not preaching the law and that if he did preach the law, he would not be being opposed...so my vote is that we are missing something.
I read only the first page of this thread. Maybe it's been mentioned. But most of you know early last year there was a very long (about 90 pages I think) thread on this very subject. I find it amusing that almost exactly a year later we're right back to it.
BTW, I have no issue with woman preachers or pastors. I think people that do have a issue with that don't understand the bible exegetically.
BTW, I have no issue with woman preachers or pastors. I think people that do have a issue with that don't understand the bible exegetically.
u·surp
yo͞oˈsərp/
verb
yo͞oˈsərp/
verb
- take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force.
[COLOR=#878787 !important]"Richard usurped the throne"[/COLOR]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]seize, take over, take possession of, take, commandeer, wrest, assume, expropriate"Richard usurped the throne"[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]