Women Pastors? Help me.

[LaurenTM]

Perhaps if we could come up with a definition of what Paul meant when he said that a woman should not "usurp authority"...

Does that mean never teach? Does that mean don't try to "shout down" a man over scripture?

Just what does that phrase actually mean?

for all intents and purposes, in this thread according to a few, it means women are responsible for the fall, they have been punished by God because of it and men are now their masters and all women everywhere are under the authority of all men everywhere...now if that sounds like Sharia law? it's only an accident...we all know that the devil would never be behind anything like that and that these godly men who want women to shut up, really love women and are just looking our for them

and of course not one would ever give an opinion on the matter; they are men after all and only men can interpret scripture' which means that anything women say is inadmissible because men cannot ever be wrong because they are men

repeat until brain dead

 

[FaithfulservantofGod]

1 Timothy 2:8-15:

(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

[Dino246]

When writing about a particular subject, the secondary statement is taken in the context of the previous statement. You don't need 1Tim to confirm 1Cor, God just gave us a second example for those who have trouble getting it the first time.

This still doesn't hold water, because Paul allows women to speak in the assembly in 1 Cor. 11. With your logic, you must either be inconsistent, or you must concede that 1 Cor 14 must include women where it addresses prophesying and speaking in tongues.

Perhaps if we could come up with a definition of what Paul meant when he said that a woman should not "usurp authority"...

Does that mean never teach? Does that mean don't try to "shout down" a man over scripture?

Just what does that phrase actually mean?

Please refer to post 97, page 5.

u·surp
yo͞oˈsərp/
verb

• take (a position of power or importance) illegally or by force.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"Richard usurped the throne"[/COLOR]
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]seize, take over, take possession of, take, commandeer, wrest, assume, expropriate"Richard usurped the throne"[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  

Which is fine if and only if "usurp authority" is the best translation of authentein. Remember, "authority" (exousia) is not in that passage.

 

[StanJ]

So, a woman should not teach, or try to be domineering over men in an assembly..

apparently, speaking in tongues and prophesying are different from teaching....

Apparently also very different type of Silence.

 

[HisHolly]

Can we get the men to live verse 8? Enough about women... Y'all got requirements too

1 Timothy 2:8-15:

(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

[resurrection33]

for all intents and purposes, in this thread according to a few, it means women are responsible for the fall, they have been punished by God because of it and men are now their masters and all women everywhere are under the authority of all men everywhere...now if that sounds like Sharia law? it's only an accident...we all know that the devil would never be behind anything like that and that these godly men who want women to shut up, really love women and are just looking our for them

and of course not one would ever give an opinion on the matter; they are men after all and only men can interpret scripture' which means that anything women say is inadmissible because men cannot ever be wrong because they are men

repeat until brain dead

It's pretty simple. The Lord told us to love our neighbors as ourselves (Matt 22:39). I am quite sure no man would want to be told he couldn't speak in church. Therefore no man should tell a woman she can't speak in church. You can't use the words of Paul to nullify the words of Jesus Christ.

 

[Dino246]

Can we get the men to live verse 8? Enough about women... Y'all got requirements too

Just wait for the wiggling on this one! I may have to make some popcorn!

 

[LaurenTM]

It's pretty simple. The Lord told us to love our neighbors as ourselves (Matt 22:39). I am quite sure no man would want to be told he couldn't speak in church. Therefore no man should tell a woman she can't speak in church. You can't use the words of Paul to nullify the words of Jesus Christ.

that sounds refreshing

thing is though, these men believe that they are in authority over ALL women

tell that to my husband...

they don't think through what they post...this is just such a fine example of the type of thinking exhibited by men who do not actually believe that we are one in Christ and of equal value...they continue to harp on about the fall and how Eve was deceived...yes she was...so what was Adam's excuse?

I have yet to see where men have never been deceived...the world is full of false prophets and many of them are men...deceived men!

but let's not ever discuss that

 

[HisHolly]

Trust me, I am!

Just wait for the wiggling on this one! I may have to make some popcorn!

 

[StanJ]

Stan, you show no fear of God as you manipulate God's word...I would not trade places with you for all the gold in South Africa. You strengthen my theory that the closer a person moves toward evil the less fear they have(you would think it would be the other way around).

There is no fear in God and what you call manipulate I call study which apparently you don't know how to do. So to quote the KJV that you are so fixated on;
[h=1]2 Timothy 1:7(KJV) For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Cognitive dissonance on the other hand is something the the people of your ilk suffer from mostly but never really know it. It binds them to the false teaching they have found comfort in.[/h]

 

[hornetguy]

Please refer to post 97, page 5.

I somehow missed that the first time through on this thread. I've said it before, and I'll repeat...

Angela ROCKS.

There is a lot more to this topic than what shows on the surface.... as is true about many Biblical topics.

 

[hornetguy]

It's pretty simple. The Lord told us to love our neighbors as ourselves (Matt 22:39). I am quite sure no man would want to be told he couldn't speak in church. Therefore no man should tell a woman she can't speak in church. You can't use the words of Paul to nullify the words of Jesus Christ.

sorry, but that appears to me to be WAY out of context. Treating others the way you want to be treated doesn't mean give them whatever they want... there has to be some spiritual discernment there. That is simply a guideline for living our lives... not an instruction on how to "do church"...

 

[StanJ]

Funny. What you have made bold is not in the original, actually.

The word "sisters" is not in the Greek, some translations just added it because of feminism.

Also, the word "anyone" is not in the Greek.

"So, my brothers, be eager to prophesy and do not forbid speaking in tongues."

You should really catch up and read all posts between your entrances instead of interjecting ignorantly.

Please read post 745 where dealt with this.

 

[resurrection33]

sorry, but that appears to me to be WAY out of context. Treating others the way you want to be treated doesn't mean give them whatever they want... there has to be some spiritual discernment there. That is simply a guideline for living our lives... not an instruction on how to "do church"...

It is not "simply a guideline." It is one of the two commandments on which "depend all the law and the prophets." Tell the truth: Do you want to be ordered to keep silent in church?

 

[trofimus]

You should really catch up and read all posts between your entrances instead of interjecting ignorantly.

Please read post 745 where dealt with this.

Still, it is not good to stress anything added in a specific translation and not present in the original.

 

[KJV1611]

Which is fine if and only if "usurp authority" is the best translation of authentein. Remember, "authority" (exousia) is not in that passage.

Do you have any ideas on why all translations use authority?

 

[StanJ]

Still, it is not good to stress anything added in a specific translation and not present in the original.

it is present if someone takes the time to study.

 

[LaurenTM]

sorry, but that appears to me to be WAY out of context. Treating others the way you want to be treated doesn't mean give them whatever they want... there has to be some spiritual discernment there. That is simply a guideline for living our lives... not an instruction on how to "do church"...

at one time I would have thought the same...but being a little more familiar with how he posts, I think what he is saying, is not quite as apparent as it seems

it seems he is looking at the bigger picture and saying don't just take one verse and run with it...but get the overall feel of what Jesus said plus the rest and let them interpret each other

I would not have agreed myself otherwise

and of course he can correct anything not understood

 

[resurrection33]

at one time I would have thought the same...but being a little more familiar with how he posts, I think what he is saying, is not quite as apparent as it seems

it seems he is looking at the bigger picture and saying don't just take one verse and run with it...but get the overall feel of what Jesus said plus the rest and let them interpret each other

I would not have agreed myself otherwise

and of course he can correct anything not understood

I like to get straight to the point.

 

[KJV1611]

Still, it is not good to stress anything added in a specific translation and not present in the original.

You're good with the Greek, why is the word "authority" in all English translations?