Women will be saved through Childbearing, if

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Whispered

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This is the funniest thing i have encountered this year

1. No proof of what you are saying. There were no such priestesses in Ephesus or any other place, otherwise Paul should have called them out.

2. Paul said women (1 Tim 2)/ wives (Eph 5)/ women (1 Cor 11)/ women (1 Cor 14). The word women or wives have a certain meaning, it can not mean individuals- it definitely means women in general.

Rev 2:20, Jesus talks of a particular woman (Jezebel) in the church without generalizing all women. Paul says women in general and wives in general.

3. Failed argument in general.
The bible was meant to be read as it is without any other additions. If reading the bible the way it is gives a certain understanding then this understanding is the correct as opposed to the understanding one gets when reading the bible with other materials or bringing in things that are not recorded in the bible.
Bible verses about Gnosticism
(From Forerunner Commentary)

When the apostle John wrote his first epistle near the end of the first century, the Gnostic philosophy had swept through the Roman world and had already made serious inroads into the church. Paul fights it in some of his letters, particularly I Corinthians, Galatians, and Colossians. John attempts to counter it in all of his writings. Full Article
 

Dino246

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Okay, still waiting for biblical argument against what Paul said.
I don't need to provide any "biblical argument" in response to a logical fallacy.

It is God who gives understanding, even with the wrong translation (i don't believe there's a single perfect translation), God will still enable one to understand. With this respect also, we don't need to understand the culture during that time.
We differ. I believe that a significant portion of our interpretation is drawn from our own reading or other sources, and influenced by biases, rather than "given by God" directly. It's arrogant to say that one interpretation is God-given and another isn't without a lot more evidence.

'some' and that's the proper way to say it which both Paul and Jesus used when addressing a grouping/church.
Never did Paul say 'men are false teachers' because of a few individuals who taught falsehoods, but when it came to women and their authority, he said 'women' meaning all women of all time, not some priestesses.
No, he didn't. The Greek noun is singular, and most English translations render it as "woman", i.e.: singular.
 

Whispered

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Whispered

Well-known member
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Why were those in Corinth mocked?
How did the apostle die?
Was there a Christian church in Athens?


At its peak, Corinth was known not only for its riches but also for its painters and its unique architecture. Building columns created in the Corinthian style were some of the most ornate in the ancient world.
Sadly, Corinth was also known for its vices. Immorality and sexual sins were rampant, in part, due to a pagan temple within the city limits that was dedicated to the pagan goddess Venus (i.e. it was dedicated to lust). The temple's illicit services employed more than 1,000+ women as prostitutes whom they referred to as "priestesses."
During his second missionary journey, in the summer of 50 A.D., the apostle Paul leaves Athens and travels to the city. In it he meets Priscilla and Aquila, a couple who will greatly aid him in his ministry. When they discover Paul is a tent maker like themselves they let him stay in their home.

Now after these things, Paul departed from Athens and came to Corinth; And there he found a certain Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with Priscilla his wife (because Claudius had ordered all the Jews out of Rome). And he came to their house. And because he was of the same trade, he dwelt with them and worked; for they were tent makers by trade. (Acts 18:1 - 3, HBFV).... https://www.biblestudy.org/biblepic/corinth-apostle-paul-missionary-journeys.html
 

Whispered

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I don't need to provide any "biblical argument" in response to a logical fallacy.


We differ. I believe that a significant portion of our interpretation is drawn from our own reading or other sources, and influenced by biases, rather than "given by God" directly. It's arrogant to say that one interpretation is God-given and another isn't without a lot more evidence.


No, he didn't. The Greek noun is singular, and most English translations render it as "woman", i.e.: singular.
God bless you for your patience brother.
You continue to engage one that bothers not to learn from the truth of what you post in counter to their error, ignorance, of scripture, while they continue to ignore what is shown as proof to counter their error, and instead continue to argue from the perspective of error and ignorance of scripture, repeating what is essentially the same falsehoods using different turns of phrase.

Are you a brick layer?
( I would have said, mason, but didn't want to lend the impression I was referring to the Masons).
Fortitude! That's what is is. Fortitude!


And they post more than the OP who started this whole thing off.





yes, they had a sale on smileys.
 

JohnR7

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Dec 30, 2019
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Woody Allen? You quoted a pedophile,
He is? I did not know that. Or is this just something that someone somewhere is accusing him of? There seems to be a lot of that going around lately. Esp if there is some money in it for the accuser. This is actually what my brother did for a living. He was a psychologist and a part of his job was to do an evaluation if someone makes a request for that with their doctor. For a while he was director of the Psychology department at our local children's hospital. I know this is a wide spread problem and 20% of children are investigated for this. Which seems very high to me in light of the fact that a lot of this sort of thing goes unreported. Anyways I was going to erase it at the time when I realized what I had done, but the five min were past so I could not edit and delete it. So the issue here has to do with the limitations of the software. I need a lot more than 5 min to edit a post. Sometimes you do not see what you have until it is posted.
 

Whispered

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He is? I did not know that. Or is this just something that someone somewhere is accusing him of? There seems to be a lot of that going around lately. Esp if there is some money in it for the accuser. This is actually what my brother did for a living. He was a psychologist and a part of his job was to do an evaluation if someone makes a request for that with their doctor. For a while he was director of the Psychology department at our local children's hospital. I know this is a wide spread problem and 20% of children are investigated for this. Which seems very high to me in light of the fact that a lot of this sort of thing goes unreported. Anyways I was going to erase it at the time when I realized what I had done, but the five min were past so I could not edit and delete it. So the issue here has to do with the limitations of the software. I need a lot more than 5 min to edit a post. Sometimes you do not see what you have until it is posted.
His ex-wife and an actor that worked with him and was married to him for a great many years brought it to light.
And now? Woody Allen is married to the woma, Soon-Yi whom he and Mia Farrow had adopted when she was a very little girl.
He also "dated" (raped) a 16 year old model, due to the law he couldn't actually date her so it was considered statutory rape because she was under the age of consent, and for eight years; Babi Christina Engelhardt .
And Allen was really good friends with the now departed child sex trafficker and worse, Jeffrey Epstein.
 

Dino246

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The Mounce Interlinear Greek Version reads as, didaskalia, aka/teaching.
διδασκαλία (didaskalia)
Strong: G1319
GK: G1436
the act or occupation of teaching, Rom. 12:7; 1 Tim. 4:13; information, instruction, Rom. 15:4; 2 Tim. 3:16; matter taught, precept, doctrine, Mt. 15:9; 1 Tim. 1:10
See everywhere didaskalia appears in the New Testament via teknia.com.
Agreed; Noose was asserting that "teachers" always means teachers of spiritual truths. It's a reasonable implication, but not actually a prescribed statement.
 

7seasrekeyed

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Aug 27, 2017
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yuh know...

my husband said the nicest thing to me just the other day while we were having a little discussion in the car

he said 'we are supposed to serve each other'

yeah

I'm good :giggle:
 

Noose

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Apr 18, 2016
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I don't need to provide any "biblical argument" in response to a logical fallacy.
Good to argue from the bible, the issues about priestesses teaching that Eve came before Adam can not be accepted, they have no basis and that's the end of this matter.

We differ. I believe that a significant portion of our interpretation is drawn from our own reading or other sources, and influenced by biases, rather than "given by God" directly. It's arrogant to say that one interpretation is God-given and another isn't without a lot more evidence.
Doesn't matter what you believe, if the whole bible was inspired by God, its understanding is equally inspired by God.

No, he didn't. The Greek noun is singular, and most English translations render it as "woman", i.e.: singular.
He also called out some men as false teachers, why didn't the singular Greek noun be translated in the same manner so that Paul condemns all men as false teachers.
Again, we don't need Greek to understand anything that the scripture says.
 

Noose

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Apr 18, 2016
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Bible verses about Gnosticism
(From Forerunner Commentary)

When the apostle John wrote his first epistle near the end of the first century, the Gnostic philosophy had swept through the Roman world and had already made serious inroads into the church. Paul fights it in some of his letters, particularly I Corinthians, Galatians, and Colossians. John attempts to counter it in all of his writings. Full Article
This is an opinion.
 

TheIndianGirl

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Nov 22, 2019
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Then he is making the same mistake as Adam when Adam allowed Eve to eat the forbidden fruit without preventing her. Adam had the authority to stop her, but he permitted his wife to take the lead in their relationship and be deceived by the snake.
A lot of female pastors are prayerful just like male pastors, so I do not believe they are being deceived. Would Satan want women to do God's work? And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. Mark 3:26 Satan approached Eve and Eve was deceived, true. In the case of a women being a pastor, what if God approached her? Maybe the husbands prayed and God responded to them also? That is a different story.

Most men would be fine with female leadership, speaking from a worldly perspective. It's easier for men and it gives women what they crave. The problem is, it is our sinful natures that crave this hierarchy.
I think it is God calling us to serve him. It is not an issue of hierarchy although I'm sure there are some female pastors who want to be pastor for the wrong reasons.

Going back to your example of Zipporah. Moses was fine with Zipporah not circumcising her son. After all, why make a mountain out of a mohel, right? Not in God's eyes. God had command circumcision, and whether or not Moses and Zipporah were okay with it, God required obedience. Same with female leadership in church.
When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him, as God commanded him. (Genesis 21:4 ). During Biblical times, mohels were strictly men. The mohels also had to perform oral suction, probably another reason why women did not perform this role. Even today, there are very few female mohels. The command and responsibility was on the father. This is an example where the male shirked on his responsibility, and a women had to fulfill this role, and not a mere case that either one could equally fulfill this role. Unbeknownst to us, this could the case in the modern world where women are being raised up to be leaders in church, as church membership in the western world has been declining for a long time.

Gen 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
1 Cor 11:9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. 1 Corinthians 7:8

I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord. 1 Corinthians 7:32-35

Another thing to consider is that when God created Eve, Adam literally had no helpmate as there were no other humans. He lived with a bunch of animals. Now the role of "helper" can be fulfilled by other members of the Church.

A deacon is not an elder.
Elder seems to be a co-pastor. If that's the case, there are no female equivalents except perhaps the Elect Lady.

I would question the success of their ministries. Tickling itching ears is not a ministry success, no matter how many ears one tickles.
A lot of people are uncomfortable with female pastors at first, and think this is weird. This was my reaction when I first heard a female pastor, I thought a male pastor was going to arrive next. I go to a church with a female pastor now and membership has increased from a very low point to new highs in the past six years I've been there. Previously membership decreased because there was some bickering between the two male pastors on who shall senior pastor. In the end both left and took away a lot of members. My pastor has baptized a lot of people, a sign of success.
Acts 18:26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Here, they appear as equals. In other verses, Priscilla is listed first. Why?
 

TheIndianGirl

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Most men would be fine with female leadership, speaking from a worldly perspective. It's easier for men and it gives women what they crave. The problem is, it is our sinful natures that crave this hierarchy.
Men must also evaluate on whether they themselves are craving hierarchy for sake of power in this women in ministry issue.
 

Moses_Young

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Sep 15, 2019
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A lot of female pastors are prayerful just like male pastors, so I do not believe they are being deceived.
Praying doesn't mean one can't be deceived. Many cults encourage it.

Would Satan want women to do God's work?
God's work doesn't involve disobedience. Remember Eve? Satan asked, did God really say... Did God really say that women shouldn't rule over men? It sounds like a question from Satan.

And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. Mark 3:26 Satan approached Eve and Eve was deceived, true.
Agreed.

In the case of a women being a pastor, what if God approached her? Maybe the husbands prayed and God responded to them also? That is a different story.
It would be, but God would have to demonstrate to His children that for some reason, He was expecting His children to accept something that He had previously told them to reject.

I think it is God calling us to serve him. It is not an issue of hierarchy although I'm sure there are some female pastors who want to be pastor for the wrong reasons.
We don't serve God by disobeying Him. Look at Abraham when he tried to fulfill God's promise by taking Hagar to wife.

When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him, as God commanded him. (Genesis 21:4 ). During Biblical times, mohels were strictly men.
Do we really know? There are many examples in the bible of widows with children. Women were actually treated quite equally in many respects, so I doubt they were prohibited from circumcision where necessary.

The mohels also had to perform oral suction, probably another reason why women did not perform this role.
This practice borders on paedophilia to my mind, and is certainly not in the bible. I seriously doubt it was done by true believers.

Even today, there are very few female mohels.
They're actually quite popular, as are females in most positions of authority. Remember how I said the sinful nature in both men and women prefers the female to dominate the male?

The command and responsibility was on the father.
Can you provide a scripture for this? The commandment was for all God's people (Abraham and his offspring), not just the fathers. The father took ultimate responsibilty as head of the family, but sometimes, the head of the family may have been a woman in the absence of a father.

This is an example where the male shirked on his responsibility, and a women had to fulfill this role, and not a mere case that either one could equally fulfill this role. Unbeknownst to us, this could the case in the modern world where women are being raised up to be leaders in church, as church membership in the western world has been declining for a long time.
I agree its an example where a man is saved by his wife. She did what she was designed to do as his lifesaver and powerful ally. But she was acting in obedience to God, not disobedience. In the case of female leadership over men, God clearly tells us this should not be the case. An analogy would be Zipporah trying to save Moses or take her son away, without dealing with the uncircumcision issue.

To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. 1 Corinthians 7:8

I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried or betrothed woman is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit. But the married woman is anxious about worldly things, how to please her husband. I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord. 1 Corinthians 7:32-35
I agree.

Another thing to consider is that when God created Eve, Adam literally had no helpmate as there were no other humans. He lived with a bunch of animals. Now the role of "helper" can be fulfilled by other members of the Church.
I disagree here. If the role of "helper" could be fulfilled by other members of the Church, God would have given Adam a dog (or possibly a horse), not a wife! Paul later backs this up by his statement where he outlines that woman was made for man. If other members of the Church could be such "helpers", Paul would have said this.

Elder seems to be a co-pastor. If that's the case, there are no female equivalents except perhaps the Elect Lady.
A pastor is essentially a teaching elder. There are no female equivalents in scripture. The Elect Lady is a special lady, not an elder.

A lot of people are uncomfortable with female pastors at first, and think this is weird.
Perhaps the weirdness is really the conscience telling one that it is not appropriate?

This was my reaction when I first heard a female pastor, I thought a male pastor was going to arrive next. I go to a church with a female pastor now and membership has increased from a very low point to new highs in the past six years I've been there. Previously membership decreased because there was some bickering between the two male pastors on who shall senior pastor. In the end both left and took away a lot of members.
It's sad that the other pastors left. But one failing doesn't permit another.

My pastor has baptized a lot of people, a sign of success.
So do the megachurches, but they mostly preach a false gospel. Numbers are not necessarily a good measure of success.

Here, they appear as equals. In other verses, Priscilla is listed first. Why?
Not sure. Do you think it is important?

Men must also evaluate on whether they themselves are craving hierarchy for sake of power in this women in ministry issue.
I guess. But most men who disagree with female pastors are not pastors, so clearly aren't in competition for the hierarchy. And many women oppose female pastors, despite the fact this rules themselves out for the job. It's about obedience to God, not one's own personal gain.
 

Moses_Young

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Out of interest to those who reject God's words through Paul about prohibiting women becoming elders. What would you think of a man who had multiple wives? Can a man with two wives also be a pastor or elder? If not, why should this be any different from a woman becoming a pastor or elder? Through Paul, God speaks against both. But if you ignore what God says about the one, surely you must also ignore what God says about the other, if you are being honest?
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Good to argue from the bible, the issues about priestesses teaching that Eve came before Adam can not be accepted, they have no basis and that's the end of this matter.
Your blinders are on a bit too tight.

Doesn't matter what you believe, if the whole bible was inspired by God, its understanding is equally inspired by God.
So God has inspired me to understand as I do.

He also called out some men as false teachers, why didn't the singular Greek noun be translated in the same manner so that Paul condemns all men as false teachers.
Fallacy: Circular reasoning.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Out of interest to those who reject God's words through Paul about prohibiting women becoming elders. What would you think of a man who had multiple wives? Can a man with two wives also be a pastor or elder? If not, why should this be any different from a woman becoming a pastor or elder? Through Paul, God speaks against both. But if you ignore what God says about the one, surely you must also ignore what God says about the other, if you are being honest?
There are no words in Scripture specifically prohibiting women from becoming elders, so your baited leading question is worthless. If you're being honest, you will recognize that Phoebe was a deacon, and women were "equally forbidden" (your words) from becoming deacons. You're stuck with the contradiction; I'm not.