Women will be saved through Childbearing, if

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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No, culture has inspired you that's why you think it is relevant to the understanding of this passage.
You just said that understanding is inspired by God. Now you're contradicting yourself.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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There are no words in Scripture specifically prohibiting women from becoming elders, so your baited leading question is worthless. If you're being honest, you will recognize that Phoebe was a deacon, and women were "equally forbidden" (your words) from becoming deacons. You're stuck with the contradiction; I'm not.
You can keep denying the scriptures, but it doesn't mean they are not there. The question is one of consistency. If a Christian wouldn't tolerate an elder with many wives, why would a Christian tolerate a female elder? It is the same scriptures that speak against both.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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Out of interest to those who reject God's words through Paul about prohibiting women becoming elders. What would you think of a man who had multiple wives? Can a man with two wives also be a pastor or elder? If not, why should this be any different from a woman becoming a pastor or elder? Through Paul, God speaks against both. But if you ignore what God says about the one, surely you must also ignore what God says about the other, if you are being honest?
It is about comfortability; people are not comfortable and when they talk about culture, it is their own culture that's making them uncomfortable and not the supposed culture from/on which Paul was addressing when he said these things.

Someone reads the bible and says to themselves, "it can not be true" or "Surely Paul did not mean this" or "it is not right", Paul must have meant something other than what i can plainly see. So what's the next step, let's look for another explanation, maybe the culture at that time and place, maybe it was not Paul who said these things. But this is just giving an ear to deceiving spirits. This is not the way to study the bible, read both comfortable and uncomfortable passages and accept them the way they are.

On the issue of having one wife; i think Paul was mostly talking about dedication to Lord's work. The one who has more wives will also find less time for Lords work. The reason for my thinking is that Paul also said eunuchs or those without wives would do better.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,179
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You can keep denying the scriptures, but it doesn't mean they are not there. The question is one of consistency. If a Christian wouldn't tolerate an elder with many wives, why would a Christian tolerate a female elder? It is the same scriptures that speak against both.
And the same Scripture that identify Phoebe, a woman, as a deacon, which is equally proscribed. Your position has an inherent contradiction.
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
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Praying doesn't mean one can't be deceived. Many cults encourage it.
Do prayerful cults also accept the basic tenets of Christianity and accept Jesus as their Savior, and love Jesus?

God's work doesn't involve disobedience. Remember Eve? Satan asked, did God really say... Did God really say that women shouldn't rule over men? It sounds like a question from Satan.
Disagree. Women pastors are communicating with God, not Satan.

I'm not talking about the husband and wife relationship. There, I agree the Bible says the husband has authority over wife, and Christ has authority over the Church. However, all social relationships do not reflect the husband and wife relationship, or the relationship between Christ and Church. Christ is head of the Church, not the pastor or elder. The Church body is made up of brothers and sisters in Christ.

Do we really know? There are many examples in the bible of widows with children. Women were actually treated quite equally in many respects, so I doubt they were prohibited from circumcision where necessary.
The act of circumcision marks the covenant with God and is a religious ceremony, probably equivalent to a baptism in the New Testament. It would make sense that men would perform this function. Do you think women would perform this religious ceremony in those days? God commanded Abraham to do this.

pastor is essentially a teaching elder. There are no female equivalents in scripture. The Elect Lady is a special lady, not an elder.
We know Priscilla is a teacher. The Elect Lady may have been a leader of a congregation. There are not many pastors/teaching elders listed in the Bible to begin with.

Perhaps the weirdness is really the conscience telling one that it is not appropriate?
Back in the day, people winced at interracial marriages. Sometimes it is a sign of prejudice.

So do the megachurches, but they mostly preach a false gospel. Numbers are not necessarily a good measure of success.
What is a good measure of success then? Baptism is symbol that people have accepted Christ. There are good and bad small churches and megachurches.

Not sure. Do you think it is important?
A lot of Bible scholars agree that it is significant that Priscilla is listed first, and that she had a dominant role in the teaching ministry.
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
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Out of interest to those who reject God's words through Paul about prohibiting women becoming elders. What would you think of a man who had multiple wives? Can a man with two wives also be a pastor or elder? If not, why should this be any different from a woman becoming a pastor or elder? Through Paul, God speaks against both. But if you ignore what God says about the one, surely you must also ignore what God says about the other, if you are being honest?
A man having two wives is living in sin; the Bible makes it clear in the NT that we can only have one spouse. Having another wife probably counts as adultery. Therefore, this man would not be fit for a pastor.

Mark 10:8 "And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."

On the other hand, the woman without any vices who wants to be a pastor is not living in sin.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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I have, as have many others, but you take no heed.
The article that you did not read also shares scripture so one might fully understand the issue.
Articles are opinions about scripture, they are not scriptures by themselves. If one understands a particular scripture, they don't need articles to reassure themselves.

There's no verse you are going to quote that can undo this:

1 Tim 2:11A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet.

Not unless the verse says something like:

"a woman must speak, i do not permit a woman to remain silent.."

Otherwise you are wasting your time. Do not quote me verses about women speaking, of course women must speak but can not teach men. Do not quote me verses about women holding certain positions or doing certain roles, they can do as much as they want but must not teach men.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Articles are opinions about scripture, they are not scriptures by themselves. If one understands a particular scripture, they don't need articles to reassure themselves.

There's no verse you are going to quote that can undo this:

1 Tim 2:11A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet.

Not unless the verse says something like:

"a woman must speak, i do not permit a woman to remain silent.."

Otherwise you are wasting your time. Do not quote me verses about women speaking, of course women must speak but can not teach men. Do not quote me verses about women holding certain positions or doing certain roles, they can do as much as they want but must not teach men.
You're absolutely right!
When you are proven wrong with just scripture, you ignore that fact and insist on your errant view.
When you're shown an article written by someone Biblically literate and that includes supporting scripture, you deny the article is worth your time, or educational, and insist on your errant understanding of the topic.

I defer to your right to remain precisely where you are.

 
Dec 30, 2019
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Paul must have meant something other than what i can plainly see. So what's the next step
The next step is to go back to Moses or go back to what Jesus said. Paul does not add anything to that. Paul does quote from David. David just explains the law. He does not actually add anything to what we receive from Moses. Also David looks ahead to Jesus and talks about Him. For example: "The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone;" (Psalm118:22)
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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You're absolutely right!
When you are proven wrong with just scripture, you ignore that fact and insist on your errant view.
When you're shown an article written by someone Biblically literate and that includes supporting scripture, you deny the article is worth your time, or educational, and insist on your errant understanding of the topic.

I defer to your right to remain precisely where you are.

Articles aside because there are also many articles that speak about men having authority over women.

Where are these scriptures that disprove 1 Tim 2 or disprove my views?

My view: A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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You can keep denying the scriptures, but it doesn't mean they are not there. The question is one of consistency. If a Christian wouldn't tolerate an elder with many wives, why would a Christian tolerate a female elder? It is the same scriptures that speak against both.

It does not speak against them as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood (male against female, Jew against gentile ) to begin with

Remember we are warned in 1 John 2:27-28 of those who say we need a man seen to teach us rather that our one unseen father in heaven .As he teaches us we abide in Him as two walking together in a agreement to His word. .

Define teaching as to exactly what we can teach .Seeing when Jesus was accused of being the one Good teaching Master .He refused to stand in the place as a abomination of desolation and said one is Good, God not seen .

We can plant the incorruptible seed by which men are born again from above and water it by offering the different interpretation prescriptions as to how we can hear God and not men. like without parables or compare the temporal to the unseen eternal needed for rightly dividing .But if we are to follow the loving Commandment it must be in seeking the approval of the one Good Master not seen. We walk by faith the eternal not seen . It does not inform us to study to show oneself approved of man or woman .That describes the foundation of Catholicism. . . usurp the authority of our Holy Father not seen and make it about the corrupted flesh of mankind

God simply will not share that glory with the corrupted flesh of mankind. His name is Jealous.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,797
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Articles aside because there are also many articles that speak about men having authority over women.

Where are these scriptures that disprove 1 Tim 2 or disprove my views?

My view: A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness.
He says rule over .Not lord it over. Just as the father ruled over the Son. . both working together in perfect mutual submission in order to finish the work of salvation . It as two working form the government of perfect peace that surpasses all human understanding.

Loving authority plus wiling submissiveness on both parts .

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. genesis 3:16
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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He says rule over .Not lord it over. Just as the father ruled over the Son. . both working together in perfect mutual submission in order to finish the work of salvation . It as two working form the government of perfect peace that surpasses all human understanding.

Loving authority plus wiling submissiveness on both parts .

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. genesis 3:16
This was some form of penalty for Eve's role but even before this, Adam had authority over Eve.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
Articles aside because there are also many articles that speak about men having authority over women.

Where are these scriptures that disprove 1 Tim 2 or disprove my views?

My view: A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness.

what is full submissiveness to you?
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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what is full submissiveness to you?
Not usurping authority over "", against what has been established (by God). For example:

I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man;c she is to remain quiet.
1 Tim 2:12
 
Dec 30, 2019
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This was some form of penalty for Eve's role but even before this, Adam had authority over Eve.
God does not hand out a penalty. He encourages people that they can be the people He created them to be. He writes the book of our life before we are even born. Every chapter and every verse. (Psalm 139:16) " all my days were written in Your book and ordained for me before one of them came to be." God is our greater cheerleader that we can do what He says we an do and we can be what HE says we can be. This is what He has ordained for us.