Would you feel comfortable owning stolen property?

[Didymous]

It usually doesn't go too well for the conquered people.

I'm sure the conquered people wish they weren't conquered and pass down that regret from generation to generation.


Its probably better to die in battle than live with the shame of slavery and every other indignation put on the conquered people. But 3rd, 4th, 5th generation people who weren't in the battle should not feel this indignation or shame. ESPECIALLY if they enjoy the same rights and freedoms as all the rest of the unconquered people.

In the case of the American Indian, not only do they enjoy the same freedom as everyone else, they enjoy lots of special rights that regular Americans DO NOT RECEIVE.


Are we actually supposed to be feeling guilty for the mercy given by the Forefathers of America to the people who were conquered?



It sure would be nice to be given land and a check from the government every month just because I was born a certain ethnicity. Maybe if I could show that my great-great-great-great grandparents were mistreated by the American Government I could get a piece of the pie as well.

Is that insensitive of me or is it everyone else that is insensitive towards me? Its hard for me to keep it straight in my head. We have so many protected ethnicities that I can't keep track of them anymore.

I just treat everyone the same. With mild annoyance... lol

No one should feel guilty, but you should feel a desire to educate yourself-rather than in ignorance parroting political propaganda.

 

[Didymous]

Earlier in my life I spent 2 1/2 years in ministry work among the American Indians. They are often fiercely independent and want little to do with the "white man's religion". When you look at their history of abuse by the white man, it is not hard to understand why.

Sadly, alcohol, abuse, and suicide are huge problems they are dealing with . . . But I have made some lifelong friends among the native peoples . . .

Earlier in my life I spent 2 1/2 years in ministry work among the American Indians. They are often fiercely independent and want little to do with the "white man's religion". When you look at their history of abuse by the white man, it is not hard to understand why.

Sadly, alcohol, abuse, and suicide are huge problems they are dealing with . . . But I have made some lifelong friends among the native peoples . . .

Chester, I appreciate your time spent wherever it was spent. I'm sure that-if you didn't know before-you know now that native are so fiercely resistant to Christianity because it was so terribly represented by whites who misused it to do the terrible things they did in the name of Jesus. I would hope that white Christians might feel convicted to do something to better represent Christianity-instead of spouting political propaganda.

 

[Didymous]

Funny thing is that when I looked at the title for this thread, the first thought I had was the same thing GaryDavid is saying: Much of the land in the US was given to the Native Americans by treaty, and then later the line was moved further and further west.

Many of us live on stolen land!

What to do about it? Ne need to feel "guilty" - it wasn't us - but it was our ancestors and our cultural approach to life.

What to do? Repent of our cultural and individual mindset of materialism, pride, and arrogance.

You're right, guilt isn't productive.

 

[Didymous]

Two wrongs don't make a right. But since the beginning of time man has taken land from someone else. It is true that Native Americans took land from other Natives. That was as wrong as what was done by the "whites" to the Natives. All this land belongs to God,inside the church no grudges should be held,no racial disharmony. Not trying to slap your fingers. Just saying we all are one in Christ.[


Apparently not.

 

[jaybird88]

Except for the entire book of Joshua, where God commanded the Jews to take the land he gave them, land possessed by other people's.
And if you fail to read the Bible then of course you don't know that the Roman conquest of Jerusalem was prophesied to them and even the destruction of the temple.

They were not commanded to take Canaan because the Canaanites we're not Jewish.

 

[Didymous]

Garydavid started this thread, but i'm a native American, so I feel obliged to address some of the more ignorant contentions here.

The 'entitlements' native americans receive barely cover the interest on what was originally promised in legal documents-then stolen again and again.
The 'free health care' is provided by predominantly white medical students, who are supposed to serve at native clinics for three years in exchange for a free ride to medical school. Most of the care they provide is substandard, and they often leave before the three years are up.
I don't expect the u. s. government to ever make reparations, because most of them aren't Christian.
What I would love to see is white Christian men willing to make reparations by going to native americans and showing them real authentic Christianity-instead of coming here and arguing about how they didn't do it, or how it's all in the past, or that God did it. God allows doesn't mean God approves. God allowed men in the bible to have many wives. Does that mean we should all have multiple spouses?
What I propose won't cost you anything but laying aside your pride. Who knows, you might even lead a native American to Christ!

You sure aren't doing us any good by coming here and arguing with me.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

They were not commanded to take Canaan because the Canaanites we're not Jewish.

Then in the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete."
Genesis 15:16 NASB

It was exactly because of their disbelief in the one true God. When God made a promise to Abraham he even spells it out that His descendants will take the land after 400 years captivity, because the inhabitants of the land' iniquity is not yet complete; one of the reasons given.

How many times did God use Persia, or Babylon to take over Israel because their disobedience? Having them taken out of the land and into captivity and the land is then occupied by others? Then after a long time so that there was only a remnant left; allowed them to return home and rebuild. Time after Time even until the arrival of Jesus, and then even after, God promised to utterly destroyed the temple, and then sent Titus to do just that. Why? Because of unbelief.
They haven't possessed the land to this day.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Garydavid started this thread, but i'm a native American, so I feel obliged to address some of the more ignorant contentions here.

The 'entitlements' native americans receive barely cover the interest on what was originally promised in legal documents-then stolen again and again.
The 'free health care' is provided by predominantly white medical students, who are supposed to serve at native clinics for three years in exchange for a free ride to medical school. Most of the care they provide is substandard, and they often leave before the three years are up.
I don't expect the u. s. government to ever make reparations, because most of them aren't Christian.
What I would love to see is white Christian men willing to make reparations by going to native americans and showing them real authentic Christianity-instead of coming here and arguing about how they didn't do it, or how it's all in the past, or that God did it. God allows doesn't mean God approves. God allowed men in the bible to have many wives. Does that mean we should all have multiple spouses?
What I propose won't cost you anything but laying aside your pride. Who knows, you might even lead a native American to Christ!

You sure aren't doing us any good by coming here and arguing with me.

I'm half native and half European. My white half apologized to my native half is that good enough? We even married a white woman as part of the deal.

 

[jaybird88]

Then in the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorite is not yet complete."
Genesis 15:16 NASB

It was exactly because of their disbelief in the one true God. When God made a promise to Abraham he even spells it out that His descendants will take the land after 400 years captivity, because the inhabitants of the land' iniquity is not yet complete; one of the reasons given.

How many times did God use Persia, or Babylon to take over Israel because their disobedience? Having them taken out of the land and into captivity and the land is then occupied by others? Then after a long time so that there was only a remnant left; allowed them to return home and rebuild. Time after Time even until the arrival of Jesus, and then even after, God promised to utterly destroyed the temple, and then sent Titus to do just that. Why? Because of unbelief.
They haven't possessed the land to this day.

There is a difference between enemies of the Lord and non Jewish people that are minding their own business. Canaanites rebelled against the Most High. They were judged for it.
Israel was one kingdom, not an empire of many kingdoms. Empires are imperial Rome theology, not biblical theology.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

There is a difference between enemies of the Lord and non Jewish people that are minding their own business. Canaanites rebelled against the Most High. They were judged for it.
Israel was one kingdom, not an empire of many kingdoms. Empires are imperial Rome theology, not biblical theology.

All people have rebelled against the Lord.
What makes a people an enemy to the Lord? The answer is found through out the Bible... I'll give you a hint. Idolatry. Idolatry makes you the enemy of God.

 

[Homewardbound]

I have the privilege of attending a small church with a majority of Native Americans in attendance.
These folks are some of the nicest, Godly people I've met. As generous than most too.
I know the white man foisted his religion on native Americans for sordid purposes, but for those folks I've met
they sure have Kingdom principles down!

 

[Grandpa]

No one should feel guilty, but you should feel a desire to educate yourself-rather than in ignorance parroting political propaganda.

Perhaps you could provide a link to the political propaganda that I am allegedly parroting.

But there is a WORLD of difference between Indians that live on the reservation and their govt. handouts and Indians that have left the reservation and made a life for themselves on their own merit.

My Grandfather is one of the latter. Lieutenant of Police in a small police department in California. I respected him more than anyone else in my life.

But then I visited some reservations. One visit is enough to see what is going there. Poverty, Drugs, Violence, Theft. All manner of un-godliness. Not a good scene.

 

[jaybird88]

All people have rebelled against the Lord.
What makes a people an enemy to the Lord? The answer is found through out the Bible... I'll give you a hint. Idolatry. Idolatry makes you the enemy of God.

People sin but that's not rebelling against the Father. Rebelling is plotting a plan to gain access to the heavens, overthrow the Father,kill Him,and rule the heavens. This is not the same as telling a lie to your parents. Rebelling against the Father is a big deal, people did it then and are doing it today

 

[PennEd]

Got my 2 cents and am ready to hurl them!

I have never had, nor intend to have, a DNA test. I despise identity politics with every fiber of my being. So this dividing by color or ethnicity, ESPECIALLY BY CHRISTIANS, is disheartening.

I know I am half Irish as my mother was 100% Irish. Many of her mothers relatives were systematically starved to death by the British who easily could have saved millions during the Great Potato Famine of the mid 19th century.

My father was a true mutt. German, British, Scottish, and he claimed American Indian, although I forget what tribe.

Kayla is right. There is NO place in the World that hasn't been conquered, and in most cases enslaved, and reconquered. Yet America always seems to be the only place that has to wear that badge.

I AM a native American! I was BORN here. My father was born here. His father was born here and I believe his father's father's father, going back to the late 1600s was born here. American Indians didn't spring up out of the ground here. They migrated and fought amongst themselves and sometimes others.

To the GREAT benefit of their descendants today, they live in the most prosperous country in history. Where the poorest of us live like kings compared to history and other places in the world today. People continue to stream here in bathtubs and cardboard boxes across oceans and deserts in a desperate attempt to take advantage of our freedom and opportunity.

There is NO reason why those with American Indian blood can't take advantage of the greatness of this country TODAY!

Again, I can go back in history, or in places around the world today, for sad, horrible stories of oppressed people.

STOP LOOKING AT PEOPLE'S COLOR, ETHNICITY, OR ANYTHING ELSE in looking for reasons why someone can't succeed. LOOK IN THE MIRROR!

 

[Locoponydirtman]

People sin but that's not rebelling against the Father. Rebelling is plotting a plan to gain access to the heavens, overthrow the Father,kill Him,and rule the heavens. This is not the same as telling a lie to your parents. Rebelling against the Father is a big deal, people did it then and are doing it today

Come on man, I said idolatry twice in a single short paragraph, and you skipped it as if it weren't the Crux of my statement.

 

[salvation_child]

No. Not a sermon at all. Believe me i wouldnt make a good preacher.🤔

Me neither. If I had no idea that it was stolen then Id be fine but if I do know that its been stolen, I want nothing to do with it.

 

[jaybird88]

Come on man, I said idolatry twice in a single short paragraph, and you skipped it as if it weren't the Crux of my statement.

explain how making an idol means that person has declared war on the Most High? such as a Greek commoner back in 300 BC.

 

[tourist]

Now you're crying?

Nah, I take it all in stride, not much bothers me anymore these days.

 

[tourist]

My apologies to Tourist, and anyone else that may have been offended by some of my harsher posts here.

I have no interest in any of the political crap that seems to have found its way here.

No need to apologize to me my good man. I have not once been offended by any post you have wrote and really appreciate your dry wit, humor and snippets of wisdom. I believe you to be a very decent and interesting man and I am blessed from having met you on this site.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

explain how making an idol means that person has declared war on the Most High? such as a Greek commoner back in 300 BC.

Worshiping an idol. By placing the idol on the throne of God. By worshipping that idol you usurp the authority and give your allegiance to the usurper. I don't know anyway to explain it any more clearly.