Would you walk out of your church if a woman missionary came to pulpit to speak ?

[Powemm]

Several things popped in my mind as i read your original post green.
since christ lives in us and we "believe" in this , are we really looking past the outer cup into the inner heart and "who" it is speaking and bearing witness through an individual regarding what God is doing?
Im having a hard time believing god would ever tell anyone "male or female" to be silent regarding What he has done and doing. He tells us not to hide our lamp under a basket..
God is always the same, god is also transforming each of us into the perfect image of His son.. Be male , female, missionary, pastor or clergy.. God esteems no one . Has no prefrences who he works through.. He looks at the heart.. and i bet if all ours were laid side by side in a row.. he would be looking to see wich ones are available.. To answer your question... No i would not walk out..

 

[iamsoandso]

in the laws of Moses it was stipulated to the age of 40 (i believe),,they were considered in service in the temple of god over that age and endorsed by the older ones they were no longer considered "students",and were considered to be of the "service",,,Ignatius in the letters he wrote to john(apostle),Mary ect. referred to himself as "a new comer/student",,,(there is a word in Greek which denotes this) position in the early church. I think i will research these two things,as my memory does fail me were i studied these in times past. ,,,,i will look for these two things,,,,

 

[oldhermit]

in the laws of Moses it was stipulated to the age of 40 (i believe),,they were considered in service in the temple of god over that age and endorsed by the older ones they were no longer considered "students",and were considered to be of the "service",,,Ignatius in the letters he wrote to john(apostle),Mary ect. referred to himself as "a new comer/student",,,(there is a word in Greek which denotes this) position in the early church. I think i will research these two things,as my memory does fail me were i studied these in times past. ,,,,i will look for these two things,,,,

Actually, a priest under the Law began what could probably be regarded as a five year priestly internship at the age of 20 yet, his "days of service" did not begin until he was 25. At the age of 50, his "days of service" were ended and he was no longer allowed to function as a priest past that age. Only the High Priest served until his death.

 

[iamsoandso]

"neophyte",,this is the word Ignatius used to describe his own self,in his letter to Mary(Christ mother) in his spurious epistles. although it was a common word used also by Paul in 1st timothy 3:6,,, Strong's Number 3504 Greek Dictionary of the New Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Thayer's Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com ,,,this being the justification as to the reasoning given by paul for the conditions for,bishops,decons ect.,,,,

 

[oldhermit]

"neophyte",,this is the word Ignatius used to describe his own self,in his letter to Mary(Christ mother) in his spurious epistles. although it was a common word used also by Paul in 1st timothy 3:6,,, Strong's Number 3504 Greek Dictionary of the New Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Thayer's Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com ,,,this being the justification as to the reasoning given by paul for the conditions for,bishops,decons ect.,,,,

Do you think we should begin another thread on that?

 

[GreenNnice]

"neophyte",,this is the word Ignatius used to describe his own self,in his letter to Mary(Christ mother) in his spurious epistles. although it was a common word used also by Paul in 1st timothy 3:6,,, Strong's Number 3504 Greek Dictionary of the New Testament Online Bible with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Thayer's Lexicon, Etymology, Translations Definitions Meanings & Key Word Studies - Lexiconcordance.com ,,,this being the justification as to the reasoning given by paul for the conditions for,bishops,decons ect.,,,,

PAul's 'spurious' epistles, imasoandso ?

Spurious = lacking valildity or authenticity , not genuine, is false.


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Not sure what you mean by that adjective, brother.

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There's no question that the majority would NOT walk out on a woman missionary who comes up to the pulpit to speak at your church. That's good.

After this, there's gray area , for women teaching Sunday school and, certainly, pastoring a church, but, I continue to support the reality that we don't know what God INTENDS for His reality of our lives . We don't know ! He can if He wants use a woman like misty to speak her bible knowledge to others , including men, in a teaching or pastoring setting.

Everyone likes to USE their own thinking of IF a woman can pastor or teach men in their church whereas I AM using God's mystery, yes, indeed, that mystery of godliness, to explain my irrefutable answer to: Can women teach (authority) or have authority over a man.

"My thoughts are not your thoughts and my ways are higher than your ways." That's just plain Isaiah 58 Scripture from prophet, Isaiah, speaking of the revelation of God that has not yet been revealed sometimes, even though we THINK we can USE Scripture to understand WHY He did things, like killing 221 people on the 911 day that Todd Beamer and company went to their death in a Pennsylvania cornfield, but, probably they kept plane #4 from flying into the White House, which was it's supposed destination.


Why do people like to make a blanket understanding of a verse like 1 Tim. 2:12 that is left soooo many with questions, obviously, it is not an easy verse to interpret. So, what should trump YOUR HEAD KNOWLEDGE THINKING of what Scripture says? Love. And, we all KNOW that the greatest of faith, hope, and, love is love

Walking out on a missionary speaking, a woman missionary, I know, I know, I'm not calling YOU a despicable person, I'm simply calling that act despicable and that walking out on that woman missionary coming to the pulpit is ANYTHING BUT love

Love. It's ALL about the Love, His Love for us and He commands us to show His Love to others, just as we ALL LOVE ourselves. And, you might think that's selfish, but, HEY! God says it, so you MUST do it Maybe, you don't LIKE yourself either, but God says that we are to 'love others as we love ourselves.' Plain and simple Scripture.

So, IF a woman becomes pastor of your church, I encourage you to really dig deep into what God's speaking to your church, there is a REASON for her there, His way, His thoughts, NOT yours, oh, no, God's not yours. What are YOU thinking any other way ?

 

[Abiding]

think he said Ignatius not Paul

 

[Apostol2013]

it is wriiten a mans work will be tried by fire yet that man "s works shall be burned but the man himself will be saved . this goes to the scripture as written and any man who teaches to break the least of these commandments shall be called the least in the kingdom 1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
but the commandments of scripture from the apostles are commandments of God and if we shall chose to be ignorant what position shall we have in heaven ? pillow fluffer perhaps a king must abide of all the rules of the kingdom even to deny his own interest the king shall put all ignorance aside and be just therefore we as a holy nation of kings and priest have to be the servant of all by adherance to the word even to our own hurt even the women must be in subjection they are not allowed to teach ofr asurp authoruty over a man but be in subjection as to the law says also the commandments of God are given through his delegates(1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
and there are no loopholes no backdoor for the good shepperd enters through the front door but in the case of the lady yes you are allowed to give "a testimony and to share the wonderfull works of the Lord but abstain from teaching pastoring you are a deaconess a servant to the gospel peace unto you from christ

 

[iamsoandso]

Do you think we should begin another thread on that?

in your post 83 you are directly quoting the old law of the stipulation of the exact age of service i am referring to i set out to search for the direct wording used by Paul in his letter to timothy and as used by Ignatius also. i cant remember the exact verse you are quoting from the old test. were is it,,,lev.????,to help me cut the path short.

now i have watched several threads about woman and authority in the church for some time. and my very though was that "there were stipulations of duties laid out to every member of the church,not just woman",,,,as you also have stated. if the other stipulations were laid out as given by scripture. so yes i do think you should begin another thread it would probably help in defining the order given to us,the church. the lord the chief,older men than me,that is in fact i notice of mine own self i am only one whom the crumbs of broiled fish and honey fell upon.

so i must trust in the faith that others will have followed the same rope pulled from the beginning till now. one continuous rope is an direct path to the beginning,one joined to it does not confuse it,several ropes attached at any point in it is become an scorpion whipping these at the end with confusion. a preacher who is not neophyte forever gathers the tips and binds them with one cord,not removing the err before him. one continues path to the lord the head of all yet there is this knot where the ends of the scorpion is tied together. here is the path of an preacher,leaving knots tied in err,gathering children to the path before it.

old hermit,,,old people like to ravel on don't they?,lol,,,I'll tell you a secret,i completed the eight grade,about half way through the ninth i quit because i didn't think the subjects were to apply to the future. i think now i was correct a trace chain don't fit on any of the modern farm implements and a yoke is in an egg only and not also around the neck of a mule. j.r. Oppenheimer,the curries and such had their bund.,,,one man from a&m west,and an ignorant man in the same house.

i am weak in age,but i think another thread is proper. i will run as fat as i can,and then,well i will take an nap for a while,,,but i will wake and read and if i might help i will,but you ready know it prudent to do so do you not?,,,,i am in the midst of loving you,,,,,,

 

[GreenNnice]

think he said Ignatius not Paul

Yeah, I see what you're seeing now, abidingsquirrelhouse, ignatious said Paul's epistles are 'spurious,' I thought that what imasoandso was not debriding Paul's God-inspired work but was wondering, I just read it wrong, HEY~! you try living with these green brains

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Yeah, I won't speak any more on this, because it derails my own thread, I want people to stay halfway on topic, anyway, of wondering if they would get up and walk on out of their own church if a woman missionary SUDDENLY came up to the pulpit to tell of her stories--and, I wouldn't use the word 'testimony' though others have, like crossnoted, and, maybe, I did, too, so forgive me if I did, cuz 'testimony' is NOT the right word of what this missionary woman is doing--of how God worked in her life.

 

[iamsoandso]

Yeah, I see what you're seeing now, abidingsquirrelhouse, ignatious said Paul's epistles are 'spurious,' I thought that what imasoandso was not debriding Paul's God-inspired work but was wondering, I just read it wrong, HEY~! you try living with these green brains

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Yeah, I won't speak any more on this, because it derails my own thread, I want people to stay halfway on topic, anyway, of wondering if they would get up and walk on out of their own church if a woman missionary SUDDENLY came up to the pulpit to tell of her stories--and, I wouldn't use the word 'testimony' though others have, like crossnoted, and, maybe, I did, too, so forgive me if I did, cuz 'testimony' is NOT the right word of what this missionary woman is doing--of how God worked in her life.

it should be in another thread,,,that to the order of what me and old hermit spoke of,i do trust your opinions on the very matter,,,both of you,if old hermit starts another thread on it,,,you are the old men also. and i am your witness,,,,

 

[Pearlie]

My prayer for you is for a spirit of discernment as you continue this very interesting and still relevant debate. I am reminded of this question to unrelenting critics: "Do you know the price of everything and the value of nothing?". Can you quote scriptures extensively but your heart is closed to the learning? I feel so blessed to come from a church and a teaching that interrogates the scriptures and encourages open debate.

I note that this thread is almost a replication of the thread ended late last year in which there were 129 replies. And the different 'factions' in the previous thread are just as evident here. I have nothing new to add to 129 plus 85 and growing replies so I graciously bow out from this thread.

 

[danschance]

I can't believe this conversation is happening in this day and age.

Not wise to throw those pebbles where they don't belong.

 

[crossnote]

Are you thinking about the example of Priscilla and Aquila who together teach Apollos?

Or even the woman who told the disciples the body was missing for ex.

 

[crossnote]

but greenster hadta add in "from the pulpit"

Typical male chauvinist.

 

[oldhermit]

in your post 83 you are directly quoting the old law of the stipulation of the exact age of service i am referring to i set out to search for the direct wording used by Paul in his letter to timothy and as used by Ignatius also. i cant remember the exact verse you are quoting from the old test. were is it,,,lev.????,to help me cut the path short

Numbers 8:24-25
23And Jehovah spoke unto Moses, saying, 24This is that which belongs unto the Levites: from twenty and five years old and upward they shall go in to wait upon the service in the work of the tent of meeting: 25and from the age of fifty years they shall cease waiting upon the work, and shall serve no more, 26but shall minister with their brethren in the tent of meeting, to keep the charge, and shall do no service. Thus shalt thou do unto the Levites touching their charges.

 

[oldhermit]

Or even the woman who told the disciples the body was missing for ex.

I think many people really misunderstand what Paul is forbidding in 1 Tim. 2. He really is not as clear here as he is when he address the same issue in 1Cor. 14. 34-34. Here, Paul is clearly defining the parameters of the prohibition which seem to be related to the public assembly of the Church where he charges women to learn in silence but, if they have any questions they are to ask their man - ἄνδρας, at home.

I do not find Paul restricting women from teaching even a man in a more private setting. Priscilla and Aquila (husband and wife) teaching Apollos together is a perfect example.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Strong's Greek: 831. αὐθεντέω (authenteó) -- to govern, exercise authority

to govern, exercise authority

NASB Translation
exercise authority over (1).


αὐθεντέω, ἀυθέντω; (a Biblical and ecclesiastical word; from αὐθέντης contracted from αὐτοέντης, and this from αὐτός and ἔντεα arms (others, ἑντης, cf. Hesychius συνεντης συνεργός; cf. Lobeck, Technol., p. 121); hence,
a. according to earlier usage, one who with his own hand kills either others or himself. b. in later Greek writings one who does a thing himself the author" (τῆς πράξεως, Polybius 23, 14, 2, etc.); one who acts on his own authority, autocratic, equivalent to αὐτοκράτωρ an absolute master; cf. Lobeck ad Phryn., p. 120 (also as above; cf. Winers Grammar, § 2, 1 c.)); to govern one, exercise dominion over one: τινς, 1 Timothy 2:12.

You seem to be selecting a preferential definition. You're not very good with this whole greek thing.

 

[p_rehbein]

Confession...........didn't read the dozens of comments........just to answer the question posed in the title of the OP......No, I would not.

 

[iamsoandso]

Yeah, I see what you're seeing now, abidingsquirrelhouse, ignatious said Paul's epistles are 'spurious,' I thought that what imasoandso was not debriding Paul's God-inspired work but was wondering, I just read it wrong, HEY~! you try living with these green brains

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Yeah, I won't speak any more on this, because it derails my own thread, I want people to stay halfway on topic, anyway, of wondering if they would get up and walk on out of their own church if a woman missionary SUDDENLY came up to the pulpit to tell of her stories--and, I wouldn't use the word 'testimony' though others have, like crossnoted, and, maybe, I did, too, so forgive me if I did, cuz 'testimony' is NOT the right word of what this missionary woman is doing--of how God worked in her life.

CHURCH FATHERS: Home green i posted this because i said something unclear perhaps. neither Paul nor Ignatius made the statement "spurious epistles",,,,the term "spurious epistles",,,,at the end of the list of letters written by Ignatius,is a group of letters "the spurious epistles" after opening that link (the second letter from the bottom) is a short letter written to Mary the mother of Jesus in this letter he(Ignatius) refers to himself as a neophyte,so at the time he wrote this letter he was a new convert and not yet the bishop of Antioch.,,,and the other occurrence i was quoting is from 1st timothy 3;6,,,the word (novice) but in Greek Paul used the word neophyte.

i only use the source (new advent) because it is convenient to navigate,there are other sources on the www to this same set of letters.,,,i should by respect leave any other comments about this to another thread,because i am it seems drifting away from the direct o.p.,so i apologize for doing so. Paul in his letters when speaking of these matters often states these matters(the role each is given in the church). so following the pattern of speech given by Paul always he gives these together,the man and woman's role also the young.

in 1st timothy 5;1 "REBUKE not an ELDER,but entreat him as an father,ect,,,in verse 2 the ELDER woman as mothers,ect,",,,,so in fact Paul is instructing him (timothy) that he reside in Ephesus in his(Paul's)absence(1tim.1;3). and then set forth to explain to timothy the "service" he would have the young man timothy(1tim.4;12-13) keep charge of in his absence.

but as Paul states to timothy in 1tim.5;1-2 that (elder man) and (elder woman),treat as father and mother. so he(Paul) is both giving charge to timothy as to his service in the church,and setting forth to timothy "not to assert his authority" over these two,the elder man and elder woman.

"a woman missionary",,,thats a good question greeNnice,,,,,but i notice Paul gives this direct order to timothy to treat her as a mother.,,,"timothy,if an elder woman proven to be a woman of god comes before you to speak,do not get up and run out of the church but treat her as a mother",,,,,