Can You Speak in Tongues?

presidente · Mar 12, 2015

Straw man argument. As far as I've seen, no one here is arguing that God saves through speaking in tongues. I have met cessationists who think that tongues were for evangelism. But it is not usually those who believe in the gifts who think that. It's usually those who have some preconceived notions of Acts 2 who don't study I Corinthians carefully enough, and don't have much practical experience with these gifts.

Look at your last statement. If you believe that, then you have no leg to stand on if you want to argue that these gifts do not continue to the present day.

Zmouth · Mar 12, 2015

Wuold thsoe sakpening wtih tognues wirte with tognues aslo?

jb · Mar 12, 2015

Zmouth said:

You are mistaken, it is part of the original text!

I suggest you go and do a bit of study on the matter!

Zmouth · Mar 12, 2015

jb said:

Thank you for the advice.

And your source is?
_____________________________________________________________

Biblical Archaeology Society

LINK to the quoted article:

Here is that forged ending of Mark:

Now when he rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. She went and told those who had been with him, as they mourned and wept. But when they heard that he was alive and had been seen by her, they would not believe it. After these things he appeared in another form to two of them, as they were walking into the country. And they went back and told the rest, but they did not believe them. Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen.And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover. So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs.

Even though this ending is patently false, people loved it, and to this day conservative Christians regularly denounce “liberal” scholars who point out this forgery, claiming that they are trying to destroy “God’s word.”

The evidence is clear. This ending is not found in our earliest and most reliable Greek copies of Mark. In A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament, Bruce Metzger writes: “Clement of Alexandria and Origen [early third century] show no knowledge of the existence of these verses; furthermore Eusebius and Jerome attest that the passage was absent from almost all Greek copies of Mark known to them.”1 The language and style of the Greek is clearly not Markan, and it is pretty evident that what the forger did was take sections of the endings of Matthew, Luke and John (marked respectively in red, blue, and purple above) and simply create a “proper” ending.
_____________________________________________________________________

Institute for Biblical Research

LINK to the following quote:

As a result, the great majority of scholars who have studied the longerending of Mark have concluded that the Evangelist did not write it andthat it was attached later to his Gospel.

jb · Mar 12, 2015

notuptome said:

Mark 16v17,18:

1) "In my name shall they cast out devils" - Acts 16v18

2) "they shall speak with new tongues" - Acts 2v4, 10v44-46, 19v16

3) "They shall take up serpents" - Acts 28v3-6

4) "and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them" - but certainly holds true as was reported by the evangelist WFP Burton in the D R of Congo.

5) "they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" - Acts 5v12-16, 28v8

I suggest you go and do a bit of textual criticism on Mark 16 (especially v9-20), as it's just as God breathed as any other part of the canon of Scripture!

It's such a pity you feel the necessity to brazenly reject Scripture just because you haven't experienced a spiritual reality that it sets forth!

Saved2004 · Mar 12, 2015

kaylagrl said:

Like the man said: as long as you interpret for those others!

jb · Mar 12, 2015

Zmouth said:

"The Last Twelve Verses of The Gospel According To S. Mark" by Dean J W Burgon (to begin with)...

You can download the book Here

Agricola · Mar 12, 2015

notuptome said:

It is a spiritual language which I can not understand but Holy Spirit does. It comes from the Holy SPirit, my Spirit is influenced by this and obviously tells my brain what to say and what sounds to make.

Zmouth · Mar 12, 2015

jb said:

Pick up serpents?

kohelet · Mar 12, 2015

Hi everyone. I just noticed this thread. I agree with you, notuptome; tongues will cease, as we read in 1 Corinthians 13:8. But is when the perfect comes that this will happen, when "we see face to face,... when [we] know fully, even as [we] have been fully known." Seeing face to face is used in the Old Testament (with which Paul was obviously very familiar and uses idioms from, eg. thorn in the flesh) for seeing God.

And since the writing of the bible has not resulted in our knowing as God knows us, "the perfect" won't be the bible. This is a view held, not only by Pentecostals but also by theologians like D.A. Carson, D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, Sam Storms, Wayne Grudem and others, all Reformed guys. Heck, even John Calvin himself, referring to 1 Corinthians 8-13, says, "It is stupid of people to make the whole of this discussion apply to the intervening time."

Not only are "ecstatic" (not sure tongues are that, Roger) utterances not "wholly out of order in the church body" but Paul tells us not to forbid them (v.39)!

kennethcadwell · Mar 12, 2015

kohelet said:

Welcome to the discussion and I like what you have to say on this, and my take is a little on the same line yet goes a little bit further. As I believe that which is perfect to be when we are in the New Jerusalem that comes down upon the New Earth after it and the New Heaven has been formed.
The reason for this is because even after Jesus second coming there are still a handful of prophecies yet to be fulfilled, as such as the 1,000 years millennial reign, Gog and Magog war that come after. I believe once the final prophecy of Revelation is fulfilled and the new perfect world without evil, hatred, death, and all other forms of suffering and sadness will the gifts cease.

kohelet · Mar 13, 2015

Hi Ken, interesting to read your understanding of the matter. I suppose this depends on a person's view of eschatology (well, it would), but that's perhaps a subject for another day. Thanks for the warm welcome - nice to be here!

Andyrew · Mar 13, 2015

I honestly beleive you should seek medical advice if you truly believe you are speaking in tongues

Jason83 · Mar 13, 2015

I think that speaking in a tongue separate to God is not really that difficult to believe if you believe the miracles God has done in the bible; really it is very small in comparison. I think my issue is every time I see someone on TV or something speaking in another tongue I think they are fake because wolves love to act like they are higher than others and the unwise will easily follow it. I remember seeing this one guy calling himself a "master prophet" and I was thinking hmm I thought that was Jesus. Would be interesting to see a legitimate Christian doing this though, but as of yet have not experienced.

I am more compelled to believe in the tongues ( in Acts chapter 2 I believe) where everyone can understand each other in their own native tongue. So, when someone's native language is French then when I speak in English they will hear perfect French. That makes sense when we are in heaven together too. Some call this the "Cloven" tongue.

ember · Mar 13, 2015

notuptome said:

Well, you are the first cessatonist I have ever come across that states tongues were not given for a sign as well as being a spiritual gift.

I find that somewhat of a dubious distinction though.

At this point, you are just not making sense.

You do seem to have a firm grip on sarcastic responses even though your grip on scripture is slipping as evidenced by your refusal to acknowledge what is commonly accepted as truth even by other cessationists.

Tongues was both a sign for unbelievers...as cleary evidenced by the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost...and is also a spiritual gift.

Tongues is also for the believers in their private life...as has been pointed out already.

notuptome · Mar 13, 2015

presidente said:

Paul is quoting it because the Jews present would know exactly what he was getting at. You see this only from the Gentile perspective and you miss the context entirely.

The Gentiles who had previously worshipped idols would most certainly have turned tongues into another idol if they were not properly instructed in their purpose.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Mar 13, 2015

presidente said:

Really? You have not read to posts about tongues being for unbelievers?

Why am I not surprised you have it completely turned around. The sign gifts returning and manifesting in Israel at the end of the age are the latter rain that Joel speaks of in his prophecy to Israel. Clearly there are distinctions you prefer to ignore in Joel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Mar 13, 2015

Rudimental said:

So what are you saying then exactly brother? That I'm not a Christian and only imitate what Christians do? Aren't we as Christians supposed to imitate Christ?

1 Corinthians 11:1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.

Yet I became born again when I was like 9 years old and believed with a childlike faith and have been a believer ever since. I believe that if we confess with our tongue and believe in our heart that Christ was saved then we shall be too. I believe that any sins we do after them are covered by the Holy Spirit (love) because we are already born again and saved. The only sin not forgiven is that of denying Christ. That is grace!

Are you saying that all that is wrong and that I'm not a Christian that cannot speak in tongues?

If so I think it is you that we need to sit down and pray over for the Holy Spirit to help you speak in tongues until you burst out into tears of Joy doing it too. Let's make a date?

Roger, do you really really think God is that banal that He would withhold His spirit from a true believer?

Yes, ACTS 2:1-4, Gods spirit burst in and everyone started speaking in tongues! And to that day the Christian has been able to speak in tongues. And will continue to do so until the end of time and for all eternity Roger!

S.I.T glorifies God!

Don't you think if God didn't want people to speak in tongues, that He would have put more emphasis on making that clear other than the one verse that talks about gifts given in I Cor 13?

It's a gift given to man since the day of Pentecost.

How come the unbeliever cannot do it?

You don't think that speaking in tongues should be done or can be done anymore?

You are a faithless believer if so Roger. It's sad that if you would think like that brother.

It's a gift to be used! Believe man! The Christian that loves God and speaks in tongues knows whether its right or not.

For Roger's cause.
Rudi.

What do you mean by the highlighted statement regarding Jesus being saved?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Mar 13, 2015

Agricola said:

You think that is biblical? The closest thing I can find for that is in Romans 8 where the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings we cannot utter but I'm not certain that is what you mean.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Mar 13, 2015

ember said:

I suggest that in the context the sermon of Peter at Pentecost was responsible for the conversions of the 3000 souls not the cloven tongues of fire in appearance. It was the message as it always is the message not signs. The signs of cloven tongues of fire were for the Jews to see that the Holy Spirit was present.

That's very weak. There is really no biblical support for that claim.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Can You Speak in Tongues?

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