Can You Speak in Tongues?

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ember

Guest
#241
#241
notuptome said:
I suggest that in the context the sermon of Peter at Pentecost was responsible for the conversions of the 3000 souls not the cloven tongues of fire in appearance. It was the message as it always is the message not signs. The signs of cloven tongues of fire were for the Jews to see that the Holy Spirit was present.

That's very weak. There is really no biblical support for that claim.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Well now you are agreeing with what I said. I never stated anything about the tongues of fire...I specifically stated it was what Peter said...see post 211 and specifically this:

Conclusion: The first time tongues were heard, 3000 people converted to Christ...that was a display of the power of God through the Holy Spirit...conviction of sin, repentance and acceptance of Christ as Savior and God's gift to the world

However, Roger, you state that tongues is not a sign...even though it clearly is as I have referenced

See the word 'heard' in bold type? That means the sermon...not what anyone saw

Could you stay on point please and not try to change or distort what I and others wrote?

What I wrote is plain and simple and the reference proves what I stated regarding tongues as a sign as well as a gift..which is exactly what scripture states and in more then one place


That's very weak. There is really no biblical support for that claim.
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Well here you are referrring to tongues being used in the belivers personal life as well.

That has already been referenced by others and a biblical reference given...your denial is what is weak
 
S

Sempiternal

Guest
#242
#242
What if speaking in tongues is actually telepathic... and everyone of all languages can understand it because its in the mind. Just thinking how a spiritual form of communication would work. When delivered before the anti-christ the elect that have the Holy Ghost speak through them in the end times will convert many that followed the false messiah because they will hear the truth. I think this modern day babbling of tongues sounds much more like confusion, babble, Babylonian. but I don't know much about "speaking in tongues" so, ehh lol

Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do yepremeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#243
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
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#243
notuptome said:
I suggest that in the context the sermon of Peter at Pentecost was responsible for the conversions of the 3000 souls not the cloven tongues of fire in appearance. It was the message as it always is the message not signs. The signs of cloven tongues of fire were for the Jews to see that the Holy Spirit was present.

That's very weak. There is really no biblical support for that claim.
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Yes there is, I Corinthians 14:28
 
kohelet

kohelet

Senior Member
#244
Feb 22, 2012
349
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#244


notuptome said:
Tongues is also for the believers in their private life...as has been pointed out already.

That's very weak. There is really no biblical support for that claim.
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I can't help thinking about what is said of Pentecostals, that they are more experience-oriented, whereas Evangelicals are more word-based, thoughtful and analytical. I also can't help wondering whether if Christians who attend a church where the gifts are not exercised, they tend to believe - from their experience of not seeing the gifts in action - that they must have been superseded by the writing of the bible (or something). When someone directs them to teaching on the use of the gifts, they duck and weave their way nimbly around that teaching. Some ignore it completely.

I don't refer to Acts 2 when discussing the gifts (specifically tongues). What happened on the day of Pentecost doesn't happen in churches today and there is nothing in scripture that tells us to look to that event for guidelines.

Paul, by contrast, begins his discussion of the matter in I Corinthians 12-14 with, "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed." He then proceeds to instruct the church about the gifts (notably tongues, which was being misused and was causing the problem).

Notuptome finds ember's comment about tongues being also for believers' private lives as "very weak" and having "no biblical support". What does notuptome do with 14:2, for example: "[One] who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God", or v.4: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds himself up"?

Paul wants them all to speak in tongues (v.5) and thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than all of them (v.18) but goes on, "Nevertheless in church...", distinguishing the use of tongues privately and in the church service (v.19). In this verse he contrasts tongues with prophecy. But he has already given tongues the same value as prophecy if it is accompanied by interpretation: "The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up" (v.5).

Paul concludes his instruction with "[Do] not forbid speaking in tongues. But all things should be done decently and in order" vv.39.40). But some cessationists (not necessarily any commenting on this thread - though they may have; I haven't read the whole thing) will stress decency and order to the exclusion of tongues. And think they're being bible-based!


 
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pem

Banned
#245
Mar 13, 2015
207
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#245
kohelet said:




I can't help thinking about what is said of Pentecostals, that they are more experience-oriented, whereas Evangelicals are more word-based, thoughtful and analytical. I also can't help wondering whether if Christians who attend a church where the gifts are not exercised, they tend to believe - from their experience of not seeing the gifts in action - that they must have been superseded by the writing of the bible (or something). When someone directs them to teaching on the use of the gifts, they duck and weave their way nimbly around that teaching. Some ignore it completely.

I don't refer to Acts 2 when discussing the gifts (specifically tongues). What happened on the day of Pentecost doesn't happen in churches today and there is nothing in scripture that tells us to look to that event for guidelines.

Paul, by contrast, begins his discussion of the matter in I Corinthians 12-14 with, "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed." He then proceeds to instruct the church about the gifts (notably tongues, which was being misused and was causing the problem).

Notuptome finds ember's comment about tongues being also for believers' private lives as "very weak" and having "no biblical support". What does notuptome do with 14:2, for example: "[One] who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God", or v.4: "The one who speaks in a tongue builds himself up"?

Paul wants them all to speak in tongues (v.5) and thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than all of them (v.18) but goes on, "Nevertheless in church...", distinguishing the use of tongues privately and in the church service (v.19). In this verse he contrasts tongues with prophecy. But he has already given tongues the same value as prophecy if it is accompanied by interpretation: "The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up" (v.5).

Paul concludes his instruction with "[Do] not forbid speaking in tongues. But all things should be done decently and in order" vv.39.40). But some cessationists (not necessarily any commenting on this thread - though they may have; I haven't read the whole thing) will stress decency and order to the exclusion of tongues. And think they're being bible-based!
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Reading of a Jewish Gnostic yesterday who studied Pentecostalism from Azuza Street up to today , came to the conclusion that American Pentecostalism is nothing but American Shamanism mixed up with Roman Catholic Mysticism .
 
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ember

Guest
#246
#246
Reading of a Jewish Gnostic yesterday who studied Pentecostalism from Azuza Street up to today , came to the conclusion that American Pentecostalism is nothing but American Shamanism mixed up with Roman Catholic Mysticism .
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Well that certainly must be reliable.....:rolleyes:...:confused:...;)
 
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pem

Banned
#249
Mar 13, 2015
207
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#249
ember said:
Well that certainly must be reliable.....:rolleyes:...:confused:...;)
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Very reliable - it was in a book by a Calvinist Michael Horton entitled : In The Face of God ( exposes gnosticism in the church - probably in your church too )
 
E

ember

Guest
#253
#253
pem said:
Did you not write this http://christianchat.com/blogs/soulweaver/7271-gift-tongues-interpretation-old-testament.html ?

That is pentecostal charismajic gobbledegook
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You do realize you are insulting the Holy Spirit, not to mention all those who speak in tongues as the Bible describes?

I have made mention of this before, but at this point it seems a good time to bring it up again

Why is it that those who refuse to accept the spiritual gifts as valid...unless it is something they can boast about, like teaching or evangelism, not only state that tongues is no longer a gift, but they have become sarcastic and sometimes downright nasty

Those who do speak in tongues, have not been so discourteous in this thread, and frankly, not in the many other discussions on tongues in other forums.

Seems the fruit of the Holy Spirit is what is lacking...patience, love, kindness

It is not kind to post in a style that appears to exemplify a superior position over others
 
E

ember

Guest
#254
#254
pem said:
Very reliable - it was in a book by a Calvinist Michael Horton entitled : In The Face of God ( exposes gnosticism in the church - probably in your church too )
Click to expand...

How is it that even though you know nothing about me other then what I have posted here, you make such sweeping assumptions?

I might well conclude, from the little I have read of your posts, that you believe you are an authority on something you believe no longer exists and look down your nose at those who practice it.

Your testimony is what is unreliable because it is based on opinion and not the truth of scripture

Understand that the Holy Spirit witnesses with the spirits of believers who have accepted Him. I can usually identify those who are filled with the Holy Spirit and represent Him...and I can usually identify those who are filled with their own identity and have not identified with Christ in His death.

Well, how could they? They refuse the One that God sent when Jesus ascended back to heaven

This is actually a very serious problem. I don't believe you need to speak in tongues for salvation as some claim, but there is a very real difference in those who are filled with the Spirit of God and those who, while saved, declare His work on this planet to be over.
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#256
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#256
Again sorry, but this is a waste of time. The post was not intended for you, but for those who actually dont think they know it all, so please chill out.
 
kohelet

kohelet

Senior Member
#257
Feb 22, 2012
349
228
43
#257
pem said:
Reading of a Jewish Gnostic yesterday who studied Pentecostalism from Azuza Street up to today , came to the conclusion that American Pentecostalism is nothing but American Shamanism mixed up with Roman Catholic Mysticism .
Click to expand...


Hi PEM,

The words of a Jewish Gnostic would trump the word of God, I suppose, then.
What do you understand 1 Corinthians 12-14 to be saying?

kohelet
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#258
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#258
presidente said:
Yes there is, I Corinthians 14:28
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Oh my! Why would one speak to God in anything except his or her native tongue?

Do you believe that tongues are human languages?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#259
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#259
ember said:
Well now you are agreeing with what I said. I never stated anything about the tongues of fire...I specifically stated it was what Peter said...see post 211 and specifically this:

Conclusion: The first time tongues were heard, 3000 people converted to Christ...that was a display of the power of God through the Holy Spirit...conviction of sin, repentance and acceptance of Christ as Savior and God's gift to the world

However, Roger, you state that tongues is not a sign...even though it clearly is as I have referenced

See the word 'heard' in bold type? That means the sermon...not what anyone saw

Could you stay on point please and not try to change or distort what I and others wrote?

What I wrote is plain and simple and the reference proves what I stated regarding tongues as a sign as well as a gift..which is exactly what scripture states and in more then one place
Click to expand...
Is that how tongues work in your church. One speaks and many hear in their own languages? If so then why an interpreter? I have always maintained that tongues are a sign and a sign to Jews not to Gentiles.
Well here you are referrring to tongues being used in the belivers personal life as well.

That has already been referenced by others and a biblical reference given...your denial is what is weak
Click to expand...
Self edification is not a compliment it is a rebuke. God does not require anyone to speak to Him in tongues. God knows all languages. Tongues as an evangelistic tool would be to allow communication of the word of God to those of differing languages. An interpreter necessary to assure all that the message was biblically accurate.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#260
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#260
@Notuptome
If I'm not mistaken, according to you, Biblical tongues is when one person says something, and one person hears Greek, another person hears Parthian, the third hears Latin and so forth, from the same words. That most likely never, ever happened, nor it will ever happen. The group of believers who received the Holy Spirit at the Pentacost was great and it's far more reasonable to believe that they all spoken in different tongues, one disciple in Greek, another in Partian, third in Latin, and so forth, so that each stranger heard prophecy in their own tongue.

Self edification is not a compliment it is a rebuke. God does not require anyone to speak to Him in tongues.
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Roger, how do you explain the following verses, particularly the underlined?

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1 Corinthians 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

1 Corinthians 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

There's nothing Biblically inherently wrong in speaking to God with this gift. It's just much better when interpretation is added, so the edification is multiplied.
 
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