Married Tomboy Christian Issues

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 22, 2016
1,218
12
0
#21
Ive never felt that I related to other women either. I never baked or cooked until I got married. I wasn't even sure I could. So there are a lot of women that are like you. But all that aside, whoever is telling you you need someone to "pour your heart out too".is giving you bad advice. Its very hard to find a person you can trust to tell private things to. The only woman I trust is my own mother. Very unwise to share private things with other people.
You are so blessed to still have your mom. I miss mine so very much. She was my best friend. Shes been gone for 15 1/2 yrs now.

Trust is developed though. Its unwise to share with others until you really know them. I think the table needs to be level:)
If they have some dirt on me, I need some on them:) It tends to keep mouths closed shut more often than not. LOL
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
83
#22
Church's ideally should be a lace of comfort and security. But most are not. I am not putting the onus on anyone, its just human nature. We should be able to say my husband cheated on me, I need help without feeling people judging, or I have a drug problem, or my son is a bully, or whatever. But it is just not the case.
So we have to be wise in who we chose to confide. But at times, most people do need someone to talk to.
I am at the point in my life that while I am not going to say I don't care at all what people think of me, I mostly don't. I think that happens when we get older, and been through stuff, and see human nature for what it is. Love me, accept me, that's great,I like it, or hate me, I am like , oh well...But it still has an effect, even though a lot less then before.
So even then, it can still take a toll. We're just human.
 
E

ember

Guest
#23
another non-girly here! seems we could make a club

I never identified with all the doll carriages as a child and the cliques and giggles club either

I am concerned that 'elders' or whoever seem to imply that your identity is somehow established with forming women only bonds ... I have always avoided those like the plague myself

I was very introverted growing up but not anymore...now I just choose to avoid certain things

I agree about the 'pour your heart out' issue...don't. Just don't do that. I pour my heart out to God...

Trust in him at all times, you people; pour out your hearts to him, for God is our refuge. Psalm 62:8

You don't need to join a bunch of women and gossip and talk about your husbands and why your kid won't get potty trained...

As you can tell from the responses here, there are plenty of women like you. I didn't fit in...there is nothing wrong with being different

 
D

Depleted

Guest
#24
I appreciate your reply! God Bless!
Nah! I am not saying play along. Actually, I didn't know you had friends outside of church, so everything I suggested just became moot because you already have a good support system. I was thinking you were relatively new to where you live now and could use some support of the female variety too.

(Sometimes I overthink. Sometimes I think stuff that's just not true, but once I figure out where I goofed, it gets straightened out.)

"Your perch." Reading what I said from your perspective, I can see where that sounded haughty. But being an introvert, I spend a lot of time away from people looking at them. It's like a robin watching from above sitting on a tree branch. (It sounded more like a vulture coming in for a kill, but they don't perch. They stalk.) That was my reference. Sorry it sounded like the other.

Now knowing you have a large and caring support system, I do suspect they might well want you to act like the majority of women. Are you new to the church? I don't get what other reason they could have to suggest this to you.

And, yeah. That's how I was introduced to my mentor. I was new, wore jeans and noticed most of the other women wore dresses, but I'm just not that. I was poor (in comparison. They were already established women, and I was just starting life on my own) to the other women and looking for a new job, so that mentor came to me and suggested we go out to buy dresses for me. (The church actually gave her $500 to buy me new outfits. Wow! 35 years later, and I still don't spend that kind of money on clothes. lol) I swallowed my pride and accepted the offer thinking God wanted to give me a lesson in humility. And I did get enough dresses to cover interviews. And then the next service, I came back to church in my jeans and she wanted to know why I didn't wear a dress to church, so I told her the truth.

"God's seen me sitting on a toilet and has seen me at my sinful worse, but he still loves me. He doesn't need me to dress up for him, so I don't dress up for him."

I had no idea, until later, they were trying to groom me to be like them, but no one ever came back with a good rebuttal for that, so...90% of the women continued to wear dresses at church, but I didn't.

It doesn't take long for people to realize this really is me, so I have no idea on what to tell you to give a tactful response to their request, if they really are just trying to make you one of their kind. I don't do tactful. Because I'm no good at tactful, but hubby is, I usually just get him to explain it, if I'm not getting through.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#25
I have always been afraid of that Ultimatum77. I grew up in a small town where the church was the center of gossip. Especially being one of the elder's kids, there was always someone talking about me or my family. It is a shame. Smh
I'm still tactless, but sometimes that's a strength. I avoid gossip by letting people know I don't gossip. And, if they think that doesn't mean them, because maybe I will gossip with them, then I repeat, "I don't gossip" and walk away. (Or, more often, don't read the post.) It doesn't take long for folks to figure out I don't gossip.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#26
Hi,

I can completely relate with your post. Although I'm not an introvert (I consider myself a reserved extrovert!), I also relate much better to men than women. I have no female accountability partner -- as someone else said, my hubby is my accountability partner -- and it works out wonderfully. He and I are very, very close.

I have always gotten along better with men -- I have a lot of their same qualities -- My brain just works like a guy's -- I like baseball, engineering, football, construction, business, etc. (Feminists out there, please do not throw stones at me -- we all know that men and women are different!)

I have a story to tell from my last church. I was talking with the head of the children's education about teaching the kids a song (I'm a professional church musician). I told this woman I would step into Children's Church for a few weeks to teach them the song. She asked me if I just wanted to teach the entire hour, but I told her that was not my thing (I don't have kids), that I wasn't gifted there. She just laughed and said that once I started it, I'd love it. How presumptuous of her! How dare her to decide how I'm gifted! It was really rather annoying! Just because I'm a woman, I'm supposed to love teaching kids???? No, I don't think so. These stereotypes are really pervasive in the church, and it's really hard on women who don't fit the mold.

Don't let the turkeys get you down -- be who you are!
I'm a feminist. Can I throw stones at you for liking engineering?


(The only thing on your list of things you like to do that I don't get. And yet, Dad is a chemical engineer, and hubby likes CAD. Weird, huh?)

Nah, real reason I'm responding -- did you or didn't you teach that class? Younger me was so worried about fitting in (and square just doesn't fit into round), I would have been bullied into it. Now? I wouldn't think twice about making my no firmer.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
588
113
#27
I don't know if I will find anyone, hopefully *crossing fingers* that can relate. I am in need of encouragement, advice, whatever...

I am almost 30years old, married with 3 kids and one on the way. My husband and I are active in youth ministry and regularly attend church. I have been going through a difficult time because I have always been an introvert( especially with other women), I prefer to stay to myself, I only like to have constructive conversation and meetings.1) I have been approached recently that I need to find some female accountability, someone that I can "talk to" and confide in... I don't have anyone. I write in a journal if I have a problem, and rarely ever confide in people. I have never got along with women, I do not enjoy girly things, the color pink, decorating, Hallmark holidays, gossips, conversations about how terrible my kids are or how much my husband drives me crazy, where I get my hair done(I don't), I don't enjoy baking or women's groups at church. I have nothing in common with them other than genatalia. Not to say that maybe somewhere there is someone like me, I just haven't found one. When I try to "hang out" ( usually a forced situation) with other women I can never connect to them. I just don't think my brain is wired the same way. I try, don't get me wrong it just always ends up an awkward uncomfortable situation in which I happily retreat to my car when it's all over. I prefer to stay home with my kids, I rarely get away or go in outings... It's just how I am.
But here's the deal. My entire life I've been friends with guys. I play sports, I like camping (even with bugs), I don't mind getting dirty and just enjoying life the girls I meet aren't like that. Now I'm married and it's never been an issue before that I don't have any friends. But that's all I hear from elders and pastors. They want to see me have other married females I can rely on and "pour my heart out to." They say that it's beneficial, spiritually. I am so worn out from feeling like I am being told there is something wrong about who I am. I am not the ideal women because I'm not Betty Crocker, doing crafts with my kids or decorating the house, planning six course meals, longing to go shopping and hanging out with my girl friends.I hate this definition of being a woman. It's terrible. I find it offensive. Alas, there doesn't seem to be anyone remotely like me. 2) So what do I do? I want to be obedient, do the right thing. I know they are telling me this because they care, but it seriously has a way of 3) making me feel degraded.
1) If you are happy as you are DO NOT be pressured into something you don't want to do! Everybody is an individual and God treats us as individuals, it is a pity that Pastors and Elders don't do the same. You are NOT being disobedient by not hanging out with other women and "pouring your heart out to them". A person can only talk about personal things to those whom they TRUST impicity, and if you don't trust them, then you don't "pour your heart out"!

Personally there are VERY few Christians that I trust, 3 in total, and if I need to bounce something off them, then I can do so, but I certainly would NEVER talk about any personal matter to Christians I don't trust, I have found that Christians can be the most untrustworthly people around!

2) As I have already said in number 1, you are NOT being disobedient by not hanging out with other women, you have to do the right thing for YOU, and NOT them!

3) if this pressure is making you feel degraded, it is NOT from the Lord Who's yoke is EASY and Who's burden is LIGHT! Matt 11v28-30
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#28
Wow! The OP could be me, except I used to be an extrovert. Aging has pushed me inward, along with chronic pain and illness.

But I grew up loving camping - I got started in Girl Guides. I used to hike by myself on trails through the Canadian Rockies, and then with my kids and husband when I got older. I lived with wood heat a few years, and I could split a log like no one's business. I remember camping up in northern BC with my kids. My very masculine husband was chopping the first night of our arrival. But he was working in town, so I had to do it the next day. My three boys were cheering me on! I could split most logs first try! It's all about leverage. The boys told ME I was better than dad, but they didn't tell their dad! LOL We did raise them right.

So when I got sick, we moved to camping in a trailer, which is a good thing in your 50's if you are disabled. But yes, I did all the cooking, and I loved baking. I learned a bit in Home Ec, then taught myself with a good cook book. I don't think it is so much that I like cooking and baking, but more that I like eating. My husband can't cook anything! Nothing.

But the garden- been gardening since I was little. I don't like bugs, but I know how to shoo them away or alternately squish them if they are hard on the garden. I actually have a weird variety of wasps that hang out with my veggies. They let me shoo them, and they are so nice. I call them my "friendly wasps." As opposed to the nasty ones that come to campouts and the deck seeking meat and fat.

About 10 years ago, I started in a new church. Two women were speaking Spanish, and I had been studying it. So I tried to speak to them in Spanish and they adopted me as their own. One was actually Brazilian and the other Peruvian. They were the most girly girls I have ever met. One was a hairdresser and she cut my hair, and dressed me up. She was gorgeous. The other got into cake and cookie decorating, and her stuff looks like a picture out of an upscale baking magazine.

But God wanted me to bond with these women. I taught them the Bible, and they helped me with my self esteem. Of course, none of us like scrap booking, and there was a group in our church constantly inviting us. But they were the best friends I have ever had. We moved from there, but when we went back last November, I visited them, and it was like there was no time or distance between us. So yes, a tomboy can have girly friends, and learn and grow.

Just telling you to be open to God's leading. But NOT people trying to shove you into a mold. If you are in a church that believes in "roles" and where women's place is, I would suggest you need to find another church. Read their doctrinal statements to make sure they believe the Bible, but find out if church is a place for the women to play dressup, or a place to grow as a disciple of Jesus.

And don't let these people push you to be someone you aren't! Someone said we are all unique, and I couldn't agree more. God has given us all gifts, and we just need to find them and do them. My girly friend from Peru has the gift of evangelism. She leads more people to Christ in a week than I do in a year. And then follows through with Bible studies in both Spanish and English, creating disciples, not a one time confession.

God has given me gifts, including teaching. But I was a public school teacher, plus my father was a university professor who taught me the joy of teaching. But not everyone has that gift!

As for tools, are you into them? I was forced to make silver jewellry by a old boyfriend, in my teens and early 20's. I learned how to use tools well. I even won a women's hammering contest on the BC logging competition circuit. And I could have, and would have beaten any man! Then I was placed in a situation where I had to build a house. Then a second house. I contracted the second, hired hubby for free to do alot of jobs! I cut down on expenses that way! LOL.

I was at the Occupational Therapist's yesterday getting all manner of splints for wayward joints. She had all the jewellry tools I used, so it brought back a lot of memories. And she enjoyed herself so much doing all these custom made splints. So I am glad I can use a hammer, pliers and all manner of hand tools.

I just want to encourage you to get away from these pastors if they keep doing this to you. If they use the word "role" ask where the word is in the Bible. Because it isn't! Christ set us free from the curse of the law, and the punishment for sinning. Memorize a few key verses and give them back if they start harassing you. And you can always end the conversation by telling them you are going to be looking for a different church if they don't stop teaching and pushing their "other" gospel.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—" Gal. 3:13

"if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up." 2 Cor. 11:4

"
not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ." Gal. 1:7




The gospel of Jesus Christ is not and never will be about conforming to roles! It is in fact, about Christ setting us free from our sins, and empowering us to live for him, be disciples and make disciples. Anything else is adding to the gospel, or distorting it!

Oops! Sorry for long ranting post!
 

santuzza

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
38
48
#29


Nah, real reason I'm responding -- did you or didn't you teach that class? Younger me was so worried about fitting in (and square just doesn't fit into round), I would have been bullied into it. Now? I wouldn't think twice about making my no firmer.
No, I did NOT teach the entire hour -- I went in for about 15 minutes, 4 weeks in a row, and taught the kids the song. It turned out very nice. There was NO WAY I was going to let someone talk (or bully) me into doing the entire class. I KNOW that's not my area of giftedness.
 
L

Levap

Guest
#30
There is nothing wrong with being the person that you are. You seem well balanced to me. It is best to leave the 'pouring your heart out to' your husband. Welcome to CC.
Thank you :)
 
L

Levap

Guest
#31
Church's ideally should be a lace of comfort and security. But most are not. I am not putting the onus on anyone, its just human nature. We should be able to say my husband cheated on me, I need help without feeling people judging, or I have a drug problem, or my son is a bully, or whatever. But it is just not the case.
So we have to be wise in who we chose to confide. But at times, most people do need someone to talk to.
I am at the point in my life that while I am not going to say I don't care at all what people think of me, I mostly don't. I think that happens when we get older, and been through stuff, and see human nature for what it is. Love me, accept me, that's great,I like it, or hate me, I am like , oh well...But it still has an effect, even though a lot less then before.
So even then, it can still take a toll. We're just human.
I agree. I just want to be obedient that's all. I am more concerned about loving Jesus, I don't want to ignore counsel.
Thanks for your reply!
 
L

Levap

Guest
#32
Wow! The OP could be me, except I used to be an extrovert. Aging has pushed me inward, along with chronic pain and illness.

But I grew up loving camping - I got started in Girl Guides. I used to hike by myself on trails through the Canadian Rockies, and then with my kids and husband when I got older. I lived with wood heat a few years, and I could split a log like no one's business. I remember camping up in northern BC with my kids. My very masculine husband was chopping the first night of our arrival. But he was working in town, so I had to do it the next day. My three boys were cheering me on! I could split most logs first try! It's all about leverage. The boys told ME I was better than dad, but they didn't tell their dad! LOL We did raise them right.

So when I got sick, we moved to camping in a trailer, which is a good thing in your 50's if you are disabled. But yes, I did all the cooking, and I loved baking. I learned a bit in Home Ec, then taught myself with a good cook book. I don't think it is so much that I like cooking and baking, but more that I like eating. My husband can't cook anything! Nothing.

But the garden- been gardening since I was little. I don't like bugs, but I know how to shoo them away or alternately squish them if they are hard on the garden. I actually have a weird variety of wasps that hang out with my veggies. They let me shoo them, and they are so nice. I call them my "friendly wasps." As opposed to the nasty ones that come to campouts and the deck seeking meat and fat.

About 10 years ago, I started in a new church. Two women were speaking Spanish, and I had been studying it. So I tried to speak to them in Spanish and they adopted me as their own. One was actually Brazilian and the other Peruvian. They were the most girly girls I have ever met. One was a hairdresser and she cut my hair, and dressed me up. She was gorgeous. The other got into cake and cookie decorating, and her stuff looks like a picture out of an upscale baking magazine.

But God wanted me to bond with these women. I taught them the Bible, and they helped me with my self esteem. Of course, none of us like scrap booking, and there was a group in our church constantly inviting us. But they were the best friends I have ever had. We moved from there, but when we went back last November, I visited them, and it was like there was no time or distance between us. So yes, a tomboy can have girly friends, and learn and grow.

Just telling you to be open to God's leading. But NOT people trying to shove you into a mold. If you are in a church that believes in "roles" and where women's place is, I would suggest you need to find another church. Read their doctrinal statements to make sure they believe the Bible, but find out if church is a place for the women to play dressup, or a place to grow as a disciple of Jesus.

And don't let these people push you to be someone you aren't! Someone said we are all unique, and I couldn't agree more. God has given us all gifts, and we just need to find them and do them. My girly friend from Peru has the gift of evangelism. She leads more people to Christ in a week than I do in a year. And then follows through with Bible studies in both Spanish and English, creating disciples, not a one time confession.

God has given me gifts, including teaching. But I was a public school teacher, plus my father was a university professor who taught me the joy of teaching. But not everyone has that gift!

As for tools, are you into them? I was forced to make silver jewellry by a old boyfriend, in my teens and early 20's. I learned how to use tools well. I even won a women's hammering contest on the BC logging competition circuit. And I could have, and would have beaten any man! Then I was placed in a situation where I had to build a house. Then a second house. I contracted the second, hired hubby for free to do alot of jobs! I cut down on expenses that way! LOL.

I was at the Occupational Therapist's yesterday getting all manner of splints for wayward joints. She had all the jewellry tools I used, so it brought back a lot of memories. And she enjoyed herself so much doing all these custom made splints. So I am glad I can use a hammer, pliers and all manner of hand tools.

I just want to encourage you to get away from these pastors if they keep doing this to you. If they use the word "role" ask where the word is in the Bible. Because it isn't! Christ set us free from the curse of the law, and the punishment for sinning. Memorize a few key verses and give them back if they start harassing you. And you can always end the conversation by telling them you are going to be looking for a different church if they don't stop teaching and pushing their "other" gospel.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—" Gal. 3:13

"if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up." 2 Cor. 11:4

"
not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ." Gal. 1:7




The gospel of Jesus Christ is not and never will be about conforming to roles! It is in fact, about Christ setting us free from our sins, and empowering us to live for him, be disciples and make disciples. Anything else is adding to the gospel, or distorting it!

Oops! Sorry for long ranting post!
Thank you for your reply. You have a lot of good insight! I see what you are saying, about the gender "role" thing. I grew up on a ranch so there was no "roles", if you can pick up a hammer, pound a fence post, cut wood, do it! Your post was very encouraging, thank you.
 
L

Levap

Guest
#33
another non-girly here! seems we could make a club

I never identified with all the doll carriages as a child and the cliques and giggles club either

I am concerned that 'elders' or whoever seem to imply that your identity is somehow established with forming women only bonds ... I have always avoided those like the plague myself

I was very introverted growing up but not anymore...now I just choose to avoid certain things

I agree about the 'pour your heart out' issue...don't. Just don't do that. I pour my heart out to God...

Trust in him at all times, you people; pour out your hearts to him, for God is our refuge. Psalm 62:8

You don't need to join a bunch of women and gossip and talk about your husbands and why your kid won't get potty trained...

As you can tell from the responses here, there are plenty of women like you. I didn't fit in...there is nothing wrong with being different

We should make a club! You know that would be awesome. I could totally handle hanging with girls who want to go shooting, hiking, fishing or camping. I am so glad to find out that there are others that "break the mold" of traditional or stereotyped women. Now if we only lived near each other :)
 
E

ember

Guest
#34
The gospel of Jesus Christ is not and never will be about conforming to roles! It is in fact, about Christ setting us free from our sins, and empowering us to live for him, be disciples and make disciples. Anything else is adding to the gospel, or distorting it!
Great post Angela....and just so!
 
L

Levap

Guest
#35
1) If you are happy as you are DO NOT be pressured into something you don't want to do! Everybody is an individual and God treats us as individuals, it is a pity that Pastors and Elders don't do the same. You are NOT being disobedient by not hanging out with other women and "pouring your heart out to them". A person can only talk about personal things to those whom they TRUST impicity, and if you don't trust them, then you don't "pour your heart out"!

Personally there are VERY few Christians that I trust, 3 in total, and if I need to bounce something off them, then I can do so, but I certainly would NEVER talk about any personal matter to Christians I don't trust, I have found that Christians can be the most untrustworthly people around!

2) As I have already said in number 1, you are NOT being disobedient by not hanging out with other women, you have to do the right thing for YOU, and NOT them!

3) if this pressure is making you feel degraded, it is NOT from the Lord Who's yoke is EASY and Who's burden is LIGHT! Matt 11v28-30
Thank you for a concise response. I have never done this chat forum thing, but I have to say I do like the way I can get so much feedback. I am the same way, I don't have a lot of Christians I trust. There are only a few and I'm okay with that.
God Bless
 
E

ember

Guest
#36
We should make a club! You know that would be awesome. I could totally handle hanging with girls who want to go shooting, hiking, fishing or camping. I am so glad to find out that there are others that "break the mold" of traditional or stereotyped women. Now if we only lived near each other :)

LOL!...that would be awesome ;)

hiking...fishing....some target practice...would love to go camping with horses..you know, through the mountains or something, all that good stuff!

you just keep being you...you are not the one with the problem!
 
L

Levap

Guest
#37
Yay, another introverted not so girly girl Christian lady. Yes you have company; yes we do exist; and yes, we usually have to fight against cultural preferences being pushed on us as the only Biblical way just for the right to be ourselves. I'm single in my 30's (and that's a whole nother struggle with church expectations) but if I were in your position, here are some of the strategies I'd use to get people off my back.

1) Especially if I had an awesome husband and a great relationship with him, tell them that my husband is my accountability partner and we share our struggles with each other. As such I see no need to develop a specific female accountability partner.

2) Basically tell them that my time and relational energy already have enough demands that I am not able to interview a bunch of women as potential besties. Then give them a list of the type of woman I would like to connect with (or just several of my hobbies / interests) and tell them I would try to make time to meet with a specific lady that they would recommend as being a good fit for me (but make them do the hunting as they probably know (or have the network to discover) the ladies in the church better than I do anyway).

3) Tell them point blank that I appreciate their concern for me, but that such a relationship is not one that I feel the need of or see as valuable. They are welcome to try to convince me of why it would be good for me personally, but ultimately they can accept me and my service as is and get off my back or I will help them fulfill their perfect church leaders image by stepping down and focusing on ministries elsewhere.

In all fairness, I would probably be a bit nicer in real life than my advice sounds. I too am just fed up of being told what my preferences and needs should be. Now I will say Lynn has a very good point that as a couple and as individuals you need to have some close friends in real life to support you when life gets tough (or when you just want to talk to another adult instead of one of your children), but most of my go to people are online and that's okay, especially for those of us who have personalities that tend to congregate online (and as I have the rarest type of personality for a female, well I really don't meet very many women like me).
Thank you, you have a lot of really great ideas! I am new to this online chat thing, sorry. I replied on my phone, but it doesn't look like it went through :-/ I really like the idea of putting the responsibility back on them to find a female person for me, if it's that important.
Blessings!
 
L

Levap

Guest
#38
I am introverted as well. I see your points, and I don't think you "need" to have an accountability partner to pour your heart out to, but this issue seems to go deeper.

I am sure your children will want someone to play with when they are older, and you'll have to make at least a cursory amount of small talk with their moms. It seems to be a sort of necessary evil in today's society.

I am glad you came for advice, you said you almost never do, and you just journal if you have a problem. It almost seems ironic that you came for advice and encouragement over a problem such as this. Is there maybe something deeper going on that makes you dislike women? I can't shake that feeling, because I know from my life how diverse people are, and there are many women who love sports and hate decorating the house. Gossip is always wrong, but I dunno. If a man made a broad generalization that women gossip, I would think him sexist.

Regardless of that, I firmly believe The Bible when it says the wife is the husband's first ministry. I assume you go to him for advice and encouragement, which is beneficial spiritually according to the Bible. I can't recall anything that says you must find a woman to go to also. Good advice comes from many sources, but if the pastor trusts you enough to help teach the youth I don't see why (s)he insists you find a woman as well.
You do pose a very interesting question, does the issue go deeper? I really don't know to be honest. I can tell you that it has always bothered me that I can't get along with the majority of women. I only know of one, but that's because she is like me (more masculine), she is a mechanic and we go mining in abandon caves for fun. I don't know why perhaps I have had the bad luck of the draw when it comes to females, the ones I get around are gossipy. It doesn't seem that they try to be but they never have anything important to talk about, when I try to bring up important/meaningful conversations they always change it to something petty. I don't mind talking to women in like a Bible Study type atmosphere, it's productive and focused (or easier to control the conversation to a purposeful topic). In fact, I love teaching. It's just being friends with women is not my thing. Even growing up my mom would make me wear a dress for church and I just remember bawling and being miserable the whole time. She would force me to play with her best friend's girl child and I was not interested in dolls or make-up. I would sneak off and play basketball with the boys. I want to relate because we are all God's children but, I can't find anything. Maybe I just need counselling lol
 

cinder

Senior Member
Mar 26, 2014
4,328
2,361
113
#39
You do pose a very interesting question, does the issue go deeper? I really don't know to be honest. I can tell you that it has always bothered me that I can't get along with the majority of women. I only know of one, but that's because she is like me (more masculine), she is a mechanic and we go mining in abandon caves for fun. I don't know why perhaps I have had the bad luck of the draw when it comes to females, the ones I get around are gossipy. It doesn't seem that they try to be but they never have anything important to talk about, when I try to bring up important/meaningful conversations they always change it to something petty. I don't mind talking to women in like a Bible Study type atmosphere, it's productive and focused (or easier to control the conversation to a purposeful topic). In fact, I love teaching. It's just being friends with women is not my thing. Even growing up my mom would make me wear a dress for church and I just remember bawling and being miserable the whole time. She would force me to play with her best friend's girl child and I was not interested in dolls or make-up. I would sneak off and play basketball with the boys. I want to relate because we are all God's children but, I can't find anything. Maybe I just need counselling lol
Doesn't sound like you need counseling, just sounds like you have a personality that's more introverted and doesn't do small talk well. I've found that for me, trying to fake it usually only makes me feel worse, so I'm usually trying to find a way to make "It's not personal; you're just boring me" sound neutral to people who take everything personally. Loneliness may be an occupational hazard of introversion, but unfortunately, being around people for a certain amount of time doesn't automatically make connections happen (oh how I wish extroverts understood this, it's quality not quantity of people I need).
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#40
Wow! The OP could be me, except I used to be an extrovert. Aging has pushed me inward, along with chronic pain and illness.

But I grew up loving camping - I got started in Girl Guides. I used to hike by myself on trails through the Canadian Rockies, and then with my kids and husband when I got older. I lived with wood heat a few years, and I could split a log like no one's business. I remember camping up in northern BC with my kids. My very masculine husband was chopping the first night of our arrival. But he was working in town, so I had to do it the next day. My three boys were cheering me on! I could split most logs first try! It's all about leverage. The boys told ME I was better than dad, but they didn't tell their dad! LOL We did raise them right.

So when I got sick, we moved to camping in a trailer, which is a good thing in your 50's if you are disabled. But yes, I did all the cooking, and I loved baking. I learned a bit in Home Ec, then taught myself with a good cook book. I don't think it is so much that I like cooking and baking, but more that I like eating. My husband can't cook anything! Nothing.

But the garden- been gardening since I was little. I don't like bugs, but I know how to shoo them away or alternately squish them if they are hard on the garden. I actually have a weird variety of wasps that hang out with my veggies. They let me shoo them, and they are so nice. I call them my "friendly wasps." As opposed to the nasty ones that come to campouts and the deck seeking meat and fat.

About 10 years ago, I started in a new church. Two women were speaking Spanish, and I had been studying it. So I tried to speak to them in Spanish and they adopted me as their own. One was actually Brazilian and the other Peruvian. They were the most girly girls I have ever met. One was a hairdresser and she cut my hair, and dressed me up. She was gorgeous. The other got into cake and cookie decorating, and her stuff looks like a picture out of an upscale baking magazine.

But God wanted me to bond with these women. I taught them the Bible, and they helped me with my self esteem. Of course, none of us like scrap booking, and there was a group in our church constantly inviting us. But they were the best friends I have ever had. We moved from there, but when we went back last November, I visited them, and it was like there was no time or distance between us. So yes, a tomboy can have girly friends, and learn and grow.

Just telling you to be open to God's leading. But NOT people trying to shove you into a mold. If you are in a church that believes in "roles" and where women's place is, I would suggest you need to find another church. Read their doctrinal statements to make sure they believe the Bible, but find out if church is a place for the women to play dressup, or a place to grow as a disciple of Jesus.

And don't let these people push you to be someone you aren't! Someone said we are all unique, and I couldn't agree more. God has given us all gifts, and we just need to find them and do them. My girly friend from Peru has the gift of evangelism. She leads more people to Christ in a week than I do in a year. And then follows through with Bible studies in both Spanish and English, creating disciples, not a one time confession.

God has given me gifts, including teaching. But I was a public school teacher, plus my father was a university professor who taught me the joy of teaching. But not everyone has that gift!

As for tools, are you into them? I was forced to make silver jewellry by a old boyfriend, in my teens and early 20's. I learned how to use tools well. I even won a women's hammering contest on the BC logging competition circuit. And I could have, and would have beaten any man! Then I was placed in a situation where I had to build a house. Then a second house. I contracted the second, hired hubby for free to do alot of jobs! I cut down on expenses that way! LOL.

I was at the Occupational Therapist's yesterday getting all manner of splints for wayward joints. She had all the jewellry tools I used, so it brought back a lot of memories. And she enjoyed herself so much doing all these custom made splints. So I am glad I can use a hammer, pliers and all manner of hand tools.

I just want to encourage you to get away from these pastors if they keep doing this to you. If they use the word "role" ask where the word is in the Bible. Because it isn't! Christ set us free from the curse of the law, and the punishment for sinning. Memorize a few key verses and give them back if they start harassing you. And you can always end the conversation by telling them you are going to be looking for a different church if they don't stop teaching and pushing their "other" gospel.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”—" Gal. 3:13

"if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up." 2 Cor. 11:4

"
not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ." Gal. 1:7




The gospel of Jesus Christ is not and never will be about conforming to roles! It is in fact, about Christ setting us free from our sins, and empowering us to live for him, be disciples and make disciples. Anything else is adding to the gospel, or distorting it!

Oops! Sorry for long ranting post!
I'm not sure getting away from a church into roles is good advice. I don't necessarily think it's bad advice either. It depends on the person getting the talking-to. If we're confident enough in our own personality, it just can't work. (And, remember, I did admit that when I was younger I could have been bullied into stuff.)

When I joined that church I knew it had just split into three groups -- the group I joined, a group for the county south of us, and a bunch of young people took off with the old pastor to find homes and jobs specifically for the goal of "supporting" him while he "ministered" to an upper-echelon leader.

I get what that really meant, (at least I do now, then I didn't) because the whole group was deeply wounded by the Jimmy-Jones-like idiot who had done that to them. It was a serious problem with the 1970's-1980's version of "the discipleship movement." Whatever the pastor wanted, the members were supposed to cater to do. (The night future-hubby gave up buying the lie was the day the pastor got mad because only one person gave him a plate of food in a potluck dinner. e expected to be served with a plate of food by every member. THAT's how bad it was.) What they didn't catch on to was their "pastor" was a conman who orchestrated the demise of the previous pastor to take his spot after secretly weaning some of the members into believing everything he said. And then once the pastor was dethroned, the conman became the pastor without many being any the wiser.

I missed all that, but I married a guy who went through all that to the point that he still has many misgivings about some of the advice given to him and his first wife posing as "marriage counseling," (and the pastor's background was "liquor salesmen" no less), but by then he already realized the conman was a fraud after his marriage was over. He was one of hundreds of people in that church trying to regain their footing back into the Lord. Most of them never lost footing, but only because God isn't of this natural world, so worked around the con job to teach his people lessons.

BUT one of the big things that conman taught everyone before he really went to town on manipulating them whole hog, was to "excel" in dress, actions, and lifestyle.

So, poof, I walked into a church full of Stepford Wives who were just regaining their sense that dressing like the women in 1950's sitcoms wasn't necessarily a godly approach to how to impress God. And it wasn't just the wives who went Stepford. The men did too.

So in walks Lynnie (the name I give my younger self lol) with her high-waisted disco-era micro bell bottoms, (bell bottoms were going out of vogue, but I've always been a step behind in fashion, if I ever get fashion anyway) with pins all over my macrame shoulder bag and one says "Question Authority."

To me "Question Authority" is always assumed. To them it was a high revelation from God. Especially to the newly appointed pastor, (who quit his job as an electrical engineer -- I really liked the guy, but I do fault that nondeom for picking pastors with no biblical training at all) who got the job specifically because he was nothing like the conman, but he knew things had to change drastically. The only question remaining was "What did we learn that is worth keeping vs. how bad were we conned?"

They wanted me to dress the part of a 1950's sitcom woman specifically because that's how they were trained to dress for the last three years by conman.

THAT I didn't get until later, so the whole attempt drastically failed. BUT, in that failure there eyes were opened back to "That's not from God. That lesson was from a conman. Does God really care how we dress? And, can we 'excel?' And, if we 'excel,' is how we dress really where we want to go, out of all the things God wants us to do better in?"

Lynnie had no idea exactly how broken those people were, but she sure saw enough brokenness there to know she fit right in. Lynn looks back at that and realizes one little stubborn chick changed everything in their outlook, by something as silly as wearing jeans to church.

The following week, after walking back in with jeans again, even after being given a private shopping spree to dress like a 1950's sitcom mom, and 90% of the women were still dressed the same. Three months later, the only ones still in the dresses really just liked the dresses. The concept that we impress God by our outfits had passed quietly. But everyone truly was into finding out what God wanted from us.

Three month later some truly beaten up young people who had traveled 1500 miles to find new homes and new jobs to service a man who wanted to con a whole nondenom denom came trickling back. Defeated. Confused. Ashamed. And question why God would let them do such a stupid thing. They kept trickling back. (Most of our friends back then came from those trickling back.) And they trickled back into a church who had nursed each other back to health after the same con, so they felt at home and had just the right people mentoring them.

The conman didn't get his way with the higher echelon. (He wanted Bob Munford's job. If interested, google that name and you get a sense of which nondenom I'm talking about. It was such a big thing it made it's waves felt throughout the US. Even made a few papers, but everyone was so embarrassed no one wanted to give their story to the newspapers to find out the whole story.) So he packed up what was left of his followers and moved another 1800 miles. At least one of our old friends went with him and still live at the last location, although we can't find out what happened to the conman.

But for those who trickled back? They didn't come back to the Stepford congregation. That church has since fallen into the "humanism is the gospel" teaching. (Again, the serious problem with hiring pastors with absolutely no biblical training and they think that's a positive trait.) But at one time they tried to talk Lynnie into wearing dresses, and the simple act of not conforming changed so much.

Had I walked away, I have no idea what those hurting people would have done. They'd probably figure out fashion sense has nothing to do with God eventually, but they got a version of that from me, simply because I was dumb enough not to get what they were really trying to tell me, while demanding they realize I am who I am, and you're simply not getting me in a dress without a good reason. Impressing God isn't a good reason. He already knows why I'm not impressive.

So, yeah. Walk if you got to. BUT consider that you not walking and not conforming also has implications for the church.