The sin of refusing sex

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tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#21
You are probably using 'your' in a generic sense here, but I wasn't talking about my wife when I mentioned a wife or husband only agreeing to sex once a year. That would be terrible, but there are couples in 'sexless marriages' that have sex extremely infrequently or never. I don't know about the feelings of the one holding out. I suppose some people just don't care for sex at all, and some married people don't like their husband or wife, and that could be at the root of the problem.

But if we are to marry to prevent fornication, and one partner witholds sex like that, it defeats the purpose of getting married..part of it....speaking specifically of that particular purpose.



So then wouldn't it be wrong to shut one's partner in marriage off from sex?

I'm not talking about not having sex because she just gave birth or had her period, or husband or wife were just in a car accident and broke their pelvis.
Yeah, that would be wrong and that type of attitude and behavior does not have to be tolerated.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#22
Let's suppose you got married. I've got colors turned off on my computer and can't see your gender. But let's suppose your spouse would only sleep with you once per year even though you expressed a need for more than that. Considering the verse I quoted, do you think there is nothing sinful about that?
The color-coding of the member by their sex ended with the new format change almost 2 years ago. To ascertain the sex of a member go to their profile page, click on About and the sex of the member will be listed. Some members have opted out of public viewing of the profile but have not.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
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#23
Is he saying you'd better have sex again after fasting so the devil doesn't tempt you, or is he saying to fast and come together again so the devil doesn't tempt you?
'What is said that there has to be a mutually agreed limit to the fast that is reasonable in regards to when sex will happen again.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#24
Yeah, I'm not feeling the love either in this thread.
That’s because you’re holding out Tourist. 😅

It is a weird topic because making love is done out of love for a person, not out of obligation. What manner of intimacy is it to reluctantly give of yourself, as if you’re a ... “lady of the night?” Like... it’s as if you’re taking something from a person instead of sharing in it.

Maybe there is a “duty” within that covenant to mutually meet the needs of the other, and indeed, out of love those needs/desires are met? The responsibility is that you two are now one, and if one hungers does not the hunger get satiated? I suppose then a couple should keep a healthy... uh... “making love” appetite.

It’s always weird to see a couple where one doesn’t desire intimacy and the other is left with that desire, and cannot fulfill it. Somewhat cruel, and not of love, if you really consider it. Where else can they go? Where else do they desire to go, do not they love their spouse? They want to make love to YOU as their spouse, who they love.

I know some people are already coming up with reasons why a couple doesn’t have to make love, but what are the repercussions, and shouldn’t it be an ought to (in regards to making love)?

I think we also should be careful in defining marriage as a “fornication avoidance tool.” We are to marry because we love that person. You don’t marry a person solely for the reason of being able to sleep with them. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:2 that every man and woman should marry so as to avoid fornication, as a statement of reason. If everyone is married there is no fornication, lol. Then in verse 9, he speaks to the widows and unmarried saying it is better for them to marry than to burn (with desire) instead of being celibate like him (as he said by permission of the Lord and not commandment).

Paul wasn’t saying for you to marry someone you have the hots for just so you don’t sin. A person that you love and are both mutually interested in each other, if you cannot contain yourself, ought to set up proper boundaries and eventually marry so you don’t commit sin (and thereby encourage others to fornicate outside of marriage, leading to all kinds of issues). That can be reasoned, but even in these verses, such is not stated. This may be more common sense or wisdom.

So the reasoning that by withholding sex they are dismissing the very purpose behind the marriage is inaccurate. We not do not see marriage as a use of fornication avoidance. I’ve heard pastors preach this and just now read the verse and was shocked to see it doesn’t even say this! Paul made a logical statement and reasoned if a person couldn’t live a celibate lifestyle (the unmarried and widow) they should seek to marry instead of burn (with desire).

This isn’t anything like how pastors preach two young people having the hots for each other should hurry down the aisle. No. Have boundaries. Be smart. The only reason you should be with someone is because you love them and desire to marry them, and yes, become one. An emotional intimacy that leads to a physical intimacy.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#25
But if it is a sin what about people like me who don't have sexual desires? I mean not many women would marry someone who can't fulfill their needs like that but if it is something that isn't your fault like if your body was damaged from cancer then there isn't anything to be done in that situation
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#26
Sin is about offending God. What about the sin of the husband who does not love his wife as Christ loved the church? What about the vows to honour and respect? If you love them and want their best, does demanding what you want despite the wishes of your partner, show love? Is your wife tired, ill, sad or overwhelmed? Be considerate. Help where you can and care about her. These are biblical mandates. Maybe it is time to look at your responsibilities towards your wife as an act of love for God. I am not sure how impressed God is with any of his children stomping their feet and demanding their rights. Love your neighbour/wife as you love yourself.
I don't see anyone arguing for exhausting a sick wife or husband so far. But I would also point out that we are supposed to honor and respect, and we shouldn't cut our spouses off from having their needs fulfilled, and we should be generous with one another. That should be reflected in all aspects of the marriage.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#27
Maybe there is a “duty” within that covenant to mutually meet the needs of the other, and indeed, out of love those needs/desires are met? The responsibility is that you two are now one, and if one hungers does not the hunger get satiated? I suppose then a couple should keep a healthy... uh... “making love” appetite.

It’s always weird to see a couple where one doesn’t desire intimacy and the other is left with that desire, and cannot fulfill it. Somewhat cruel, and not of love, if you really consider it. Where else can they go? Where else do they desire to go, do not they love their spouse? They want to make love to YOU as their spouse, who they love.
If the desire different frequency, having the attitude of justing having enough sex to fulfill one's own appetite in marriage, and not the other's is selfish. If both couples have that attitude and the desire is mismatched, the one who wants less is completely satisfied while the one who wants more is left wanting.

I think we also should be careful in defining marriage as a “fornication avoidance tool.” We are to marry because we love that person. You don’t marry a person solely for the reason of being able to sleep with them. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7:2 that every man and woman should marry so as to avoid fornication, as a statement of reason. If everyone is married there is no fornication, lol. Then in verse 9, he speaks to the widows and unmarried saying it is better for them to marry than to burn (with desire) instead of being celibate like him (as he said by permission of the Lord and not commandment).
The Bible tells husbands to love their wives. Western culture says marry who you are in love with (or just shack up with them.) Back in the first century, they may have had more arranged marriages and things of that nature. Our culture has people choose their own spouses based on their feelings. If a man marries a woman, he is to love her as Christ loved the church.

For me, one reason I decided to marry when I was younger is because I did want to have a sexual relationship with a wife. I also wanted to have children and a lot of the emotional things that go along with being married. Avoiding fornication was one reason I wanted to marry, but that wasn't the basis on which I chose __who__ to marry. If I were to have married some ungodly woman with no fear of the Lord who thought nothing of having sexual relationships with men and she had cheated on me and left me for another man, I'd still have the same temptation issues. Before I met my wife, I had some ideas in mind of the mind of woman I wanted ot marry.

So the reasoning that by withholding sex they are dismissing the very purpose behind the marriage is inaccurate. We not do not see marriage as a use of fornication avoidance. I’ve heard pastors preach this and just now read the verse and was shocked to see it doesn’t even say this! Paul made a logical statement and reasoned if a person couldn’t live a celibate lifestyle (the unmarried and widow) they should seek to marry instead of burn (with desire).
But it does say this. That's one aspect of it. To avoid fornication, let every woman have her own husband and left every husband have his own wife. That's certainly a reason to decide to get married. But it is not enough to decide who one should marry.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#28
I'm surprised this is seems like a new doctrine to some. I read that verse by at least the time I was 12 years old or so. But if someone never heard it... there are few preachers who address it. It looks like that topic would come up.

I was raised in a home where discussion of sex felt like a very uncomfortable topic. I think a lot of kids feel that way to some extent. But if we look in the Old Testament, the Law of Moses was to be read to the entire congregation from babies to old people, including teens and parents. And some of those laws are about circumcision, menstruation, fornication, incest, adultery, rape, same-sex sexual activity, beastiality, and all kinds of things. This was to be taught publicly to the people of God.

I think some church people have confused Victorian mores with Biblical ethics when it comes to the topic of teaching or discussing sexual issues.

And as a result, some preachers stay away from the topic. Too much unhealthy focus on it can get out of balance, but there is a place for teaching on this topic. When someone never heard about it, they think it is a 'new doctrine' even though it has been in the Bible for nearly 2000 years, much longer if you look at it from the perspective of a wife's right to sex in marriage.

Just in our culture, I noticed a lot of fornication-based sexual ethics, with a heavy emphasis on consent, asking specific consent to touch here, to touch there... trying to figure out a way to decrease rape and make fornication seem 'ethical' from within the framework of a fornicator's mindset. Young people hear a lot about their right not to have sex or do something they aren't comfortable with... which is fine though it is way too low a standard of morality. But then they don't hear the voices telling them when you get married, you have a duty to take care of your partner's needs and having a loving, generous attitude about doing that. If they don't get it in church or from believers, where are Christians going to hear this? I suppose they might actually read the Bible for themselves. That would be good, too.
 
Sep 13, 2018
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#29
You are probably using 'your' in a generic sense here, but I wasn't talking about my wife when I mentioned a wife or husband only agreeing to sex once a year. That would be terrible, but there are couples in 'sexless marriages' that have sex extremely infrequently or never. I don't know about the feelings of the one holding out. I suppose some people just don't care for sex at all, and some married people don't like their husband or wife, and that could be at the root of the problem.

But if we are to marry to prevent fornication, and one partner witholds sex like that, it defeats the purpose of getting married..part of it....speaking specifically of that particular purpose.



So then wouldn't it be wrong to shut one's partner in marriage off from sex?

I'm not talking about not having sex because she just gave birth or had her period, or husband or wife were just in a car accident and broke their pelvis.

Is'nt that a bit "cliche" That is a women"s greatest weapon when you have an argument... (But it works). Lol...
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#30
Is'nt that a bit "cliche" That is a women"s greatest weapon when you have an argument... (But it works). Lol...
Actually I think a womens greatest weapon is the whip she has over her man, the mans greatest weapon... well here to another day in the dog house
 

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
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#31
I wonder why Christians are more obsessed with that topic than the world. Like its sooo conplicated and needs sooo much study.
I dont get it
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#32
I wonder why Christians are more obsessed with that topic than the world. Like its sooo conplicated and needs sooo much study.
I dont get it
Clearly you don't spend enough time in the bdf- very wise decision
 

Godsgirl83

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2019
5,280
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#34
Is'nt that a bit "cliche" That is a women"s greatest weapon when you have an argument... (But it works). Lol...
Actually I think a womens greatest weapon is the whip she has over her man,
Actually, you are both wrong.....
the woman's greatest weapon is.....................
PRAYER.


I can honestly say this because
1) I am a woman &
2) have walked down this road where nagging, whining and cry do NOTHING
but quiet prayer before the Lord, THAT'S where it's at.....


My husband has told people:
"I can argue with my wife all day, but I can't argue with the Lord...."
 
Apr 17, 2019
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#35
Although there is no excuse for marital unfaithfulness, a lack of sexual tenderness could contribute to a spouse’s seeking affection and intimacy from someone else. (Prov. 5:18; Eccl. 9:9) Therefore, the Bible urges married couples: “Do not deprive each other [of the marriage due] except by mutual consent for an appointed time.” Why? “In order that Satan may not keep tempting you for your lack of self-control.” (1 Cor. 7:5)

What a tragedy if a couple were to allow Satan to exploit their “lack of self-control” and cause either of them to succumb to temptation and commit adultery. Conversely, when each mate seeks, “not his own advantage, but that of the other person” and renders the marriage due as an expression of love rather than as a duty, affectionate intimate relations can strengthen the marriage bond.—1 Cor. 10:24.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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#36
I wonder why Christians are more obsessed with that topic than the world. Like its sooo conplicated and needs sooo much study.
I dont get it
I've been on this forum maybe 10 years, and I remember two threads here recently on sex. But what percentage of TV shows or movies contain sex scenes? How much time does the average person in 'the world' spend looking at porn?

Sex is an important part of marriage, and it seems like a married Christian could go his or her own life without hearing any Christian say that there is a duty or obligation to render 'due benevolence' to one's spouse. But sex is a problem in many marriages and they say the top two topics for argument in marriage are sex and money.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#38
it says nothing about sex in that verse I think you are reading wayyy to much into it.
also, it gives you some advice, like when you are apart you gotta be fasting or praying, not sleeping around with other people!!!
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#39
Well my two cents on the subject is that if you are marrying or even in a relationship other than the love you have for each other then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. If sex is required to have a happy love and relationship together then again I think it is for the wrong reason.
My mom had a boyfriend that I greatly respected and she married him, however not two months later she divorced him and her reason was he wouldn't have sex with her.
Everyone in family as per usual had the opposite thought process I did. in their minds she was not just right to boot him but should have done it much sooner. In my mind I thought it a ridiculous reason for it. This man was honorable respectful wise and caring in every sense of the word he was the greatest father figure to me.
When people make those vows on that day when they are no longer two souls but one intertwined, a covanent of the hearts that is sacred and beautiful made in the deepest intimacy for each other these vows are not to be taken lightly they are to be made as if they were written in stone and are supposed to be the image of Jesus and his bride.

But to throw all that away for such a petty reason....
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
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#40
I Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Umm whoever gave a red x to this, this is Scripture so....