Boston Bombing Suspects: The Tsarnaev Brothers

[Drett]

I would have to agree. If Israel was put back there, then God had a hand in it. Like you say, they were taken away by His choice before and put back this time for the same reason. He's always wanted them to come back to Him. They were His first love and you never forget your first love.

Are these the actions of a chosen people ?

In Dier Yassin 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes.Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem

Kana'ana and Zeitawi, The Village of Deir Yassin, Destroyed Village Series, Berzeit University Press, 1988.

Just as the Roman were occupying Israel at the time of Jesus. These Europeans are occupying Israel now not because they deserve to but because no one else deserves to be there. They are a punishment from God.

 

[SarahM777]

You are letting your doctrine, and what you have trained yourself to believe regarding what the terms are for the Israeli's return, interfere with the objective reality that they HAVE returned, and why that might be.
CHRISTIAN ZIONISM

Who was it that laid out the groundwork for their return? Wasn't it God that told them this through Moses? So the real question is Is their return truly of God or is it being forced into the scriptures? Answer that question and you have the truth. Was their return to be as a religious group or was it as an ethnic group? If it's as an ethnic group then shouldn't they look more like the Arabs in that ABRAHAM was FATHER to both, and both should be Middle Eastern?

Do you know who and what they honor on their postage stamps? If they truly are following Moses and the Torah,shouldn't they have more stamps being issued for that then the Talmud and those type of Rabbis? Or will it be shown that they honor the Talmud and the Rabbis more? I know the answer do you? I know who they honor and it's not hidden. They don't make a secret of it. Half an effort will show you the truth of who they honor.

How anyone calling themselves Christian can ignore it when Jesus is looked at as being cursed,a wizard,etc etc and go fully along with it,doesn't that show who one really allies themselves with? Does one really believe that God will say that is OK to have partnership with darkness? We as Christians are NOT to ally ourselves with ANY form of darkness. It does NOT matter where the darkness is coming from. Do we not understand that from all the warnings God gave Israel? They didn't listen and what happened? Sorry I can not ally myself to ANYONE that spits on the Lord. (Jesus didn't either)

 

[zone]

I asked a question and if I was wrong I did ask for clarification which you have NEVER done with anything I have written,all you have done since the beginning is accuse me,lied about me and bore false witness against me,time and time again. You have outright called me an anti semite time and time again. When are you going to stop the lies,slander and accusations you are doing and then have the gall to accuse others of the very same thing?

never. that's not his job.

he's doing his job.
poorly, but nevertheless.

 

[zone]

Simply repeating an ignorant wish won't make it magically come true. There is only one side that desires to fight.

you mean there's only one side that will not submit/hasn't been exterminated yet?


The phony war and the real war over Palestine: May 1948
This chapter discuses the dual nature of the 1948 conflict particularly during May 1948. On one hand there was the Arab Israeli war and on the other hand there was the ethnic cleansing. In a letter that David Ben-Gurion sent to the commanders of the Haganah brigades he stated, 'the cleansing of Palestine remained the prime objective of Plan Dalet.'[40] Pappé states that the Arab war efforts were 'ineffective', and 'pathetic'.[40] This was true for Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. And Jordan had agreed to not attack Israel. The Arab weapons were scarce and their supply lines were ineffective.[41] The most intensive Arab efforts occurred in the first three weeks of the war.[42] Ethnic cleansing was conducted in at least 64 villages by the Israeli Alexandria brigade according to Pappé[43] They were also part of the massacre at Tantura, per Ilan Pappé, on May 2, 1948.[44] He quotes from various witnesses that as many as 230 were massacred there.[45] Various other brigades such as the Golani Brigade, Carmeli Brigade, Kiryati Brigade, Harel Brigade, Bulgarian Brigade, Yiftach Brigade, and Givati Brigade also conducted cleansing operations.[46]

The escalation of the ethnic cleansing operations: June–September 1948
Pappé, in this chapter, discusses June through September 1948. The ethnic cleansing continued despite the passage of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights through the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 217A(III)[47] David Ben-Gurion's diary June 5, 1948 states, 'the cleansing operation continues.'[48] Eliezer Kaplan, the minister of finance authorized the confiscation of all Palestinian properties already taken.[48] The First Truce was declared on June 8, 1948. And according to Pappé the Israelis continued the destruction of villages that had already been taken. The truce ended on July 8, 1948. Fighting continued with the Israelis showing the upper hand against the various Arab forces. The Israelis took Itarun, Amqa, Tel-Qisan, Saffuriyya, Kfar Yassif, Abu Sinan, Judeida, and Tabash.[49] Pappé states that numerous Palestinian villages had been peacefully occupied by Muslim, Druze, and Christians for centuries.[50] On July 18, 1948 another truce was organized by the U.N. mediator Count Folke Bernadotte.[51] Pappé states, 'In less than two weeks, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians had been expelled from their villages, towns, and cities.'[51] Count Folke Bernadotte was murdered in September, 'for having dared to put forward a proposal to re-divide the country in half, and to demand the unconditional return of all the refugees.'[51] Pappé in this chapter talks about various Israeli operations such as Operation Palm Tree, Operation Kippa, Operation Broom, Operation Scissors, Operation Cyprus, Operation Policeman, Operation Autumn and Operation Dani. Pappé quotes from Keith Wheeler of the Chicago Sun Times that in one operation 'Practically everything in their (Israeli Forces) path died.' He also quotes from the London Economist that, village 'inhabitants were forced to start marching after their houses had been looted, their family members murdered and their city wrecked.'[52]

Completing the job: October 1948 – January 1949
Pappé begins this chapter with quotes from the Badil Resource Center. 'In 1948, 85% of the Palestinians living in the areas that became the state of Israel became refugees.' 'It is estimated that there were more than 7 million Palestinian displaced persons at the beginning of 2003.'[53] He talks about Operation Hiram, War Crimes During the Operation, Mopping Up Operations, Israel's Anti-Reparation Policy, Final Cleansing of the South and the East, and The Massacre in Dawaymeh. Pappé states 'I have no illusion that it will take more than this book to reverse a reality that demonizes a people who have been colonized, expelled, and occupied, and glorifies the very people who colonized, expelled and occupied them.'[54]

Occupation and its ugly faces
Pappé starts this chapter with another set of quotes about ethnic cleansing, including, 'Since 1967, Israel has detained 670,000 Palestinians.'[55] Sections of this chapter are entitled Inhuman Imprisonment, Abuses Under Occupation, Ghettoizing the Palestinians of Haifa, Rape, Dividing the Spoils, Desecration of Holy Sites, Entrenching the Occupation, and The Land Robbery: 1950–2000.

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

Operation Palm Tree
Operation Kippa
Operation Broom
Operation Scissors
Operation Cyprus
Operation Policeman
Operation Autumn
Operation Dani
Operation Hiram

Pappé quotes from Keith Wheeler of the Chicago Sun Times that in one operation 'Practically everything in their (Israeli Forces) path died.'


don't ya just love the cutsie names?

operation this and that.
so clever.
america uses them now too. trendy.

my personal favorite: Operation Cast Lead (Talmudic authority for pouring hot lead onto or into people, btw)

Operation Cast Lead: It's Zionese for Burning People

"Zionese" is the unofficial spoken language of the State of Israel. Most Israelis learn and use the Zionese language, but one need not be Jewish to speak it; today it is also the language that’s spoken in many Judeo-Christian and Messianic churches in America, often without church leaders realizing it.

The first cab driver I rode with in Israel pointedly called the Philistines "animals" in the course of polite conversation...that’s Zionese. He was cautioning me to keep away from Palestinians while in Israel. "They will kill you in there," he told me, when he learned I was going into Gaza. More Zionese.

Zionese is not a language of letter, syllable, and punctuation. It is the delivery of a few so-called "truths" that must be learned and repeated forcefully without reservation. The trick is in the delivery. Zionese is the art of telling a story that most will reject, and repeating it as if most believe it.

The teller must not worry about being thought a liar by most, so long as there are listeners who will believe because they think others believe. Common Zionese statements are "our warfare is self-defense", "they hit us first (usually with “rockets"), "they are animals," and "Israelis are holocaust survivors." Zionese paints all Arabs as inferior. It is a language of racist superiority, and it is no stretch to call it verbal brutality.

Michael Oren (born Michael Bornstein in 1955) is an American-born Israeli historian and author; he is the Israeli ambassador to the United States. Recently he was interviewed by Bob Simon on a CBS 60 Minutes show, Christians of the Holyland about the flight of Christian Palestinians from their land as a result of the misery inflicted on them by the Israeli occupation. Predictably, Oren found Israel blameless.

Challenging veteran newsmaker Bob Simon, Oren defended Israel's occupation and abusive practices on the familiar ground of self-defense, and blamed Palestinian misery on its own radical Islamists. He claimed that Simon's unexpectedly critical approach was "anti-semitic."

We Hold These Truths
Charles E. Carlson




this is your filthy garment.
it looks lovely on you.

Simply repeating an ignorant [slur] won't make it magically come true. There is only one side that desires to fight.

 

[SarahM777]

never. that's not his job.

he's doing his job.
poorly, but nevertheless.

I suppose one can give him credit that he does have his talking points down. (For what it's worth)

 

[zone]

I suppose one can give him credit that he does have his talking points down. (For what it's worth)

he's an amateur.

 

[SarahM777]

Ilan Pappe

Ilan Pappé (Hebrew: אילן פפה‎; born 1954) is an Israeli historian and socialist activist. He is a professor with the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, director of the university's European Centre for Palestine Studies, and co-director of the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies.
Pappé was born in Haifa,[SUP][1][/SUP]Israel. Prior to coming to the UK, he was a senior lecturer in political science at the University of Haifa (1984–2007) and chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian and Israeli Studies in Haifa (2000–2008).[SUP][2][/SUP] He is the author of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006), The Modern Middle East (2005), A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples (2003), and Britain and the Arab-Israeli Conflict (1988).[SUP][3][/SUP] He was also a leading member of Hadash,[SUP][4][/SUP] and was a candidate on the party list in the 1996[SUP][5][/SUP] and 1999[SUP][6][/SUP] Knesset elections.

Wikipedia

Ilan Pappé - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SarahM777]

he's an amateur.

My point exactly. Never any new points just the same old repeats,regurgitation,on and on,over and over,and same old same old. (For what it's worth)

 

[zone]

Operation Cast Lead (Talmudic authority for pouring hot lead onto or into people, btw)

MISHNAH. THE MANNER IN WHICH BURNING IS EXECUTED IS AS FOLLOWS: HE WHO HAD BEEN THUS CONDEMNED WAS LOWERED INTO DUNG UP TO HIS ARMPITS, THEN A HARD CLOTH WAS PLACED WITHIN A SOFT ONE,7 WOUND ROUND HIS NECK, AND THE TWO LOOSE ENDS PULLED IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS, FORCING HIM TO OPEN HIS MOUTH. A WICK WAS THEN LIT, AND THROWN INTO HIS MOUTH, SO THAT IT DESCENDED INTO HIS BODY AND BURNT HIS BOWELS. R. JUDAH SAID: SHOULD HE HOWEVER HAVE DIED AT THEIR HANDS [BEING STRANGLED BY THE BANDAGE BEFORE THE WICK WAS THROWN INTO HIS MOUTH, OR BEFORE IT COULD ACT], HE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EXECUTED BY FIRE AS PRESCRIBED. HENCE IT WAS DONE THUS: HIS MOUTH WAS FORCED OPEN WITH PINCERS AGAINST HIS WISH, THE WICK LIT AND THROWN INTO HIS MOUTH, SO THAT IT DESCENDED INTO HIS BODY AND BURNT HIS BOWELS. R. ELEAZAR B. ZADOK SAID: IT ONCE HAPPENED THAT A PRIEST'S DAUGHTER COMMITTED ADULTERY, WHEREUPON BUNDLES OF FAGGOTS WERE PLACED ROUND ABOUT HER AND SHE WAS BURNT. THE SAGES REPLIED, THAT WAS BECAUSE THE BETH DIN AT THAT TIME WAS NOT WELL LEARNED IN LAW.


GEMARA. What is meant by a WICK? — R. Mathna said: A lead bar.8


...whilst as for [the implication of the verse], Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, this can be fulfilled by piling up an abundance of faggots to cause a speedy death. Hence the teaching of the gezerah shawah.

Babylonian Talmud: Sanhedrin 52 < click

Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin
Folio 52a

...

see?

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself just means getting the job done quicker.

barbarism is love.

 

[zone]

My point exactly. Never any new points just the same old repeats,regurgitation,on and on,over and over,and same old same old. (For what it's worth)

Buffalo Springfield

a-a-a-anyways....next up on the check list will be the veiled threat about uncovering Talmud to the goyim.

what happens to ya ("deserved" i think was what he said).
that's in there too.
death penalty for it.

oh he's a christian - uh huh.

 

[zone]

Ilan Pappe

Ilan Pappé (Hebrew: אילן פפה‎; born 1954) is an Israeli historian and socialist activist. He is a professor with the College of Social Sciences and International Studies at the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, director of the university's European Centre for Palestine Studies, and co-director of the Exeter Centre for Ethno-Political Studies.
Pappé was born in Haifa,[SUP][1][/SUP]Israel. Prior to coming to the UK, he was a senior lecturer in political science at the University of Haifa (1984–2007) and chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian and Israeli Studies in Haifa (2000–2008).[SUP][2][/SUP] He is the author of The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006), The Modern Middle East (2005), A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples (2003), and Britain and the Arab-Israeli Conflict (1988).[SUP][3][/SUP] He was also a leading member of Hadash,[SUP][4][/SUP] and was a candidate on the party list in the 1996[SUP][5][/SUP] and 1999[SUP][6][/SUP] Knesset elections.

Wikipedia

Ilan Pappé - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Jewish people has known the phenomenon of self-hatred unlike any other people. This attribute has principally been associated with assimilationist Jews, particularly German ones, and it has a long history. Furthermore "Israeli anti-Semitism" appears a paradox because this self-hatred was thought to belong to the Exile: those attempting to identify with the surrounding Gentiles had to prove their new identity by hating their former brethren. Zionism was supposed to heal this psychological pathology but among the Radical Left classic Jewish self-hatred recurs – in their hatred of the religious community and particularly the Haredi part of it....

....The comprehensive de-Zionization that started among Israel’s elites depended a great deal upon the 1975 UN resolution equating Zionism with racism. This was legitimized among the radical left and then among wider circles which refer to themselves as the "Zionist Left", by identification with that accusation. Israeli historical revisionism, especially the writings of the "new historians" such as Benny Morris, Avi Shlaim, and particularly Ilan Pappe, presents Zionism in the spirit of that UN resolution....

Notes on the Dialectics
of Israeli Anti-Semitism

Arieh Stav

Policy Paper No. 22, 1998

Ariel Center for Policy Research < click



the Dialectics of Israeli Anti-Semitism?
Radical Left classic Jewish self-hatred?


ya can't win it.
it's the worst recipe for mental illness i've ever investigated.
why ppl don't just walk away from it is beyond me.

those attempting to identify with the surrounding Gentiles had to prove their new identity by hating their former brethren.

oh...pur-leeze.

 

[Drett]

he's an amateur.

No he is just a bitter man that probably needs to step away from his computer and look for a different set of friends.

 

[PeteWaldo]

Who was it that laid out the groundwork for their return? Wasn't it God that told them this through Moses? So the real question is Is their return truly of God or is it being forced into the scriptures? Answer that question and you have the truth. Was their return to be as a religious group or was it as an ethnic group? If it's as an ethnic group then shouldn't they look more like the Arabs in that ABRAHAM was FATHER to both, and both should be Middle Eastern?

Of course not. Abraham had Ishmael with Sarah's handmaiden Hagar - an Egyptian and Isaac with his wife Sarah. Abraham disowned Ishmael, leaving the only son that God recognized being Isaac.

Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Amusingly, those whose side you choose even proudly proclaim themselves to be of the seed of Ishmael - which are of the children of the flesh.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

As if their being the children of the flesh weren't made apparent enough through their prostrating toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" (as the scriptures refer to it) in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Even obligated to travel to that black stone idol and march around it 7 times as the Arabian pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worshipers did.
Even lust after conquest of all kingdoms of this world, which have been Satan's legal possession ever since Adam's fall.
THE HAJJ AND UMRAH

Do you know who and what they honor on their postage stamps? If they truly are following Moses and the Torah,shouldn't they have more stamps being issued for that then the Talmud and those type of Rabbis? Or will it be shown that they honor the Talmud and the Rabbis more? I know the answer do you? I know who they honor and it's not hidden. They don't make a secret of it. Half an effort will show you the truth of who they honor.

How anyone calling themselves Christian can ignore it when Jesus is looked at as being cursed,a wizard,etc etc and go fully along with it,doesn't that show who one really allies themselves with? Does one really believe that God will say that is OK to have partnership with darkness? We as Christians are NOT to ally ourselves with ANY form of darkness. It does NOT matter where the darkness is coming from. Do we not understand that from all the warnings God gave Israel? They didn't listen and what happened? Sorry I can not ally myself to ANYONE that spits on the Lord. (Jesus didn't either)

As I've already pointed out, the scriptures help us discern a Jew with a circumcision of the heart, from one without (though to a Roman Church styled punitive supersessionist they must necessarily all be the same):

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

However regarding who you "ally" yourself with it is indeed instructive to note just who is allied with whom, between those that recognize the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord, and those who reject that the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel.html

We are even given scripture to help us with our discernment.

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The majority of those in the following Israeli groups are pro-Zionism:

Israeli Christians
Israeli non-Muslim and secular Arabs
Israeli Messianic Jews
Israeli Torah Jews
Israeli secular Jews

The majority of those in the following Israeli group are anti-Zionism:

Israeli Muslims


Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are pro-Zionism:

Tens of millions of denominational and non-denominational Evangelical Christians, including a near unanimity of futurists, and to name a couple of individuals Chuck Smith, Hal Lindsay and Tim LaHaye.
The Christadelphian cult

Among non-Israeli groups that proclaim themselves to be Christian, the majority of those in the following groups are anti-Zionism:

Jeremiah Wright and his flock (even endorsing the Iran backed "March on Jerusalem")
Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult
David Duke and the KKK
Ted Pike (who seems to have suffered the consequences) and his followers
The "Christian Identity" movement
The liberal left wing of the church some of which also ordain women and homosexuals (these are a little difficult to nail down because they are as reluctant to admit to anti-Zionism, as some folks in this forum were, to answer to only request I made in the last paragraph in the OP of this thread, (though I did appreciate that you boldly proclaimed which side you are on, wdeaton65))
Perhaps those groups that discussed divestment of Israeli assets could give us a clue:
Disinvestment from Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presbyterian Church (USA)
World Council of Churches
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
With the ECUSA suggesting "“a negotiated two-state solution” and “positive investment” rather than divestment from Israel." (in other words likely financing Islamic terrorism, since that is the so-called "Palestinian's" largest (and perhaps nearly only?) industry in which one can invest).


Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are pro-Zionism:

These groups might be hard to categorize. For example I have chatted with at least one English atheist that understands what is going on, from having investigated Islam after Muslims took over his neighborhood, who does not want his heirs to be subjugated to prostrating themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen", in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad.
We can perhaps suffice it to say that any group in favor of the continuation of freedom, liberty and right to self-determination and self-rule provided by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, to the benefit of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims (where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Muslim controlled country on earth), would fit here.

Among non-Israeli groups, that are not Christian, the majority of whose members are anti-Zionism:

A near unanimity of Muslim antichrists around the world
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults

No question which tree I want my Lord and Savior to find me as fellow fruit in.

 

[SarahM777]

Of course not. Abraham had Ishmael with Sarah's handmaiden Hagar - an Egyptian and Isaac with his wife Sarah. Abraham disowned Ishmael, leaving the only son that God recognized being Isaac.

Of course the same father which if you know anything about genetics you know they will be far more in appearance to their "half-brothers" then they will be to a Native American,an African American,a Chinese,Laotian,Japanese or a Scandinavian. That is part of their genetic make up. And whether one likes it or not they ARE RELATED by genetics.

And what about the rest I asked about?

Was their return to be as a religious group or was it as an ethnic group? If it's as an ethnic group then shouldn't they look more like the Arabs in that ABRAHAM was FATHER to both, and both should be Middle Eastern?

Do you know who and what they honor on their postage stamps? If they truly are following Moses and the Torah,shouldn't they have more stamps being issued for that then the Talmud and those type of Rabbis? Or will it be shown that they honor the Talmud and the Rabbis more? I know the answer do you? I know who they honor and it's not hidden. They don't make a secret of it. Half an effort will show you the truth of who they honor.

How anyone calling themselves Christian can ignore it when Jesus is looked at as being cursed,a wizard,etc etc and go fully along with it,doesn't that show who one really allies themselves with? Does one really believe that God will say that is OK to have partnership with darkness? We as Christians are NOT to ally ourselves with ANY form of darkness. It does NOT matter where the darkness is coming from. Do we not understand that from all the warnings God gave Israel? They didn't listen and what happened? Sorry I can not ally myself to ANYONE that spits on the Lord. (Jesus didn't either)

Amusingly, those whose side you choose even proudly proclaim themselves to be of the seed of Ishmael - which are of the children of the flesh.

Where did I say they weren't?

As I've already pointed out, the scriptures help us discern a Jew with a circumcision of the heart, from one without (though to a Roman Church styled punitive supersessionist they must necessarily all be the same):

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

However regarding who you "ally" yourself with it is indeed instructive to note just who is allied with whom, between those that recognize the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord, and those who reject that the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel.html

And that is what is at the heart of the matter,are those that are leading Israel,are they calling Jesus accursed or are they calling Him Lord? If they are calling Him accursed then whom have you allied yourself with? Are they calling Jesus Lord? Answer those questions and you have the answer.

No question which tree I want my Lord and Savior to find me as fellow fruit in.

I have no question about that myself either,but I for sure want to be 100 % sure that I know whom I'm following. See I believed that everything was as it appeared on the surface. But I have had way to many people lie to me for me to take things at face value anymore. I want to know the truth,not what we have been told for so long. Not everything in this life is at it appears on the surface.

 

[Drett]

Of course not. Abraham had Ishmael with Sarah's handmaiden Hagar - an Egyptian and Isaac with his wife Sarah. Abraham disowned Ishmael, leaving the only son that God recognized being Isaac.

Gen 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only [son] Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

By the rules of this chat forum I am unable to comment on this.

 

[zone]

Amusingly, those whose side you choose even proudly proclaim themselves to be of the seed of Ishmael - which are of the children of the flesh.

Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9 For this [is] the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

THIS IS FORESHADOWING CHRISTIANS SAVED BY FAITH.

THE MIRACULOUS BIRTH WAS A TYPE...BY PROMISE.

ABRAHAM LOVED ISHMAEL AND SO DOES GOD.

GOD BLESSED HIM.

SARAH WAS JEALOUS.

ISHMAEL AND ALL CHILDREN CREATED IN GOD'S IMAGE HAVE SALVATION OPEN TO THEM YOU CREEP.

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

THIS IS AN ALLEGORY

IT SAYS UNBELIEVING JEWS ARE NOT AND WILL NOT BE SAVED UNLESS THEY COME TO CHRIST

IT SAYS THERE IS NO OLD COVENANT.

IF YOU TWIST THIS HOLY SCARED SCRIPTURE AGAIN TO JUDAIZE AND SPREAD HATE I'M REPORTING YOU FOR IT.

IT SAYS UNBELIEVING JEWS ARE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH AND WILL NOT INHERIT.

IT SAYS JEWS PERSECUTE CHRISTIANS.

ITS NOT ABOUT ARABS, CRACKERJACK!

As if their being the children of the flesh weren't made apparent enough through their prostrating toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" (as the scriptures refer to it) in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Even obligated to travel to that black stone idol and march around it 7 times as the Arabian pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worshipers did.

GALATIANS SAYS UNBELIEVING JEWS ARE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH AND WONT INHERIT.

TALMUDIC JEWS PRACTICE A LEWD PAGAN SEX RELIGION AT A ROMAN IDOL ROCK IN OLD JERUSALEM WHICH IS BEARING SLAVES - UNBELIEVING TALMUDIC JEWS.

NOTHING TO DO WITH ISHMAEL, GENIUS.

 

[zone]

By the rules of this chat forum I am unable to comment on this.

ignore him drett.
he's not a christian he's a zionist shill.
he doesn't speak for Jesus

 

[PeteWaldo]

Originally Posted by PeteWaldo

Of course not. Abraham had Ishmael with Sarah's handmaiden Hagar - an Egyptian and Isaac with his wife Sarah. Abraham disowned Ishmael, leaving the only son that God recognized being Isaac.

Of course the same father which if you know anything about genetics you know they will be far more in appearance to their "half-brothers" then they will be to a Native American,an African American,a Chinese,Laotian,Japanese or a Scandinavian. That is part of their genetic make up. And whether one likes it or not they ARE RELATED by genetics.

I showed you how God sorts them out. That is all that matters. Children of the promise and children of the flesh. The children of the flesh whose side you have taken are just as prophesied:

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

And what about the rest I asked about?

Was their return to be as a religious group or was it as an ethnic group? If it's as an ethnic group then shouldn't they look more like the Arabs in that ABRAHAM was FATHER to both, and both should be Middle Eastern?

There are also black Jews from Africa that have been restored to Israel. Do you see how your raging bigotry has destroyed your capacity for critical thought?
The enemy has made it impossible for you to see Jews as other than as a monolithic group that can all be assigned the same traits, and all be assigned the responsibility for things, as a uniform group.

The fact is that all kinds of Jews have been restored to Israel. There are atheist and agnostic Jews, there are faithful Torah Jews with a circumcision of the heart who worship my God YHWH through my Old Testament scriptures, and there are pharisical talmudic Jews who have deceived themselves into believing they are faithful while making the word of God of none effect just as they have since the first century. Your insistence on putting all Jews into one monolithic group and falsely assigning uniform traits to all Jews as a whole makes you EXACTLY LIKE what your false perception of Jews is. You have deceived yourself into believing that a Christian can pass judgment on all Israeli Jews as one group, and that is why you find yourself fruiting the same tree as Nazis and skinheads who do the exact same thing.

Do you know who and what they honor on their postage stamps?

See how you proved it again? Are ALL Israeli Jews responsible for whatever it is you are talking about? You are a raging racist bigot who now blames all Israeli Jews for a stamp?
Yet the children of the flesh that you support - in their destruction of the Israeli democracy that protects Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims - must necessarily reject Jesus' crucifixion and thus His shed blood, and deny the Son of God as articles of faith in the false prophet Muhammad, because they are articles of their faith.

If they

.........

See how you proved your bigotry again? If THEY who? The agnostic Jews, the Torah Jews or the pharisical Jews? You are a racist bigot. All Israeli Jews cannot be described as having the same traits or beliefs or heart condition.

.......

truly are following Moses and the Torah,shouldn't they have more stamps being issued for that then the Talmud and those type of Rabbis?

See how the enemy has broken your mind with hatred and bigotry?
In this case the "THEY" would be all the people that are directly responsible for production of whatever it is that you are talking about (a postage stamp apparently). Period.

And why should we expect that faithful Torah Jews with a circumcision of the heart would be anything other than a small remnant, just as regenerate Christians are a small remnant throughout the world?

i

Or will it be shown that they honor the Talmud and the Rabbis more?

THEY THEY THEY. It is the hallmark of Godless blind racist bigots to lump people by race and ethnicity into monolithic groups, and then assign uniform characteristics and beliefs to them. Exactly like you and Zone do. They - agnostic Jews don't honor anything, Torah Jews worship and honor YHWH, and Talmudic Jews have only deceived themselves into believing they do.

I know the answer do you?

Yes I do. There is every kind of Jew imaginable in Israel. Is that your answer too?

I know who they honor and it's not hidden. They don't make a secret of it. Half an effort will show you the truth of who they honor.

Which THEY? Agnostic Jews, Torah Jews or Talmud Jews? Can't even you see what a bigot you are?

How anyone calling themselves Christian can ignore it when Jesus is looked at as being cursed, .......

I wouldn't ignore it but rather pray for such any person capable of cursing Jesus, that they find Him. And as the scripture informs us no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed, so the type of Jew that you describe here would be an atheistic, agnostic or pharisaical talmudic type Jew - which is exactly the same type of self-proclaimed Jew that you are type of self-proclaimed Christian. His capacity to discern the difference between a Gentile with a circumcision of the heart and one without, is exactly the same as your racism and bigotry that causes you to assign a uniform condition of the heart to all Jews. You are he. Two peas in a pod. Just the same.

...... a wizard,etc etc and go fully along with it,doesn't that show who one really allies themselves with?

I'm allied WITH GOD and His having restored His people to our land, for the sake of His holy name.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake........[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]I will sanctify my great name..........[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD.......[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.[/FONT]

That's all I need to know. That's what puts me on God's side. On the side of tens of millions of Christians that support the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State.
The converse of the side that you find yourself on which is the side of:

Israeli Muslims
Jeremiah Wright and his flock (even endorsing the Iran backed "March on Jerusalem")
Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult
David Duke and the KKK
Ted Pike (who seems to have suffered the consequences) and his followers
The "Christian Identity" movement
The liberal left wing of the church some of which also ordain women and homosexuals (these are a little difficult to nail down because they are as reluctant to admit to anti-Zionism, as some folks in this forum were, to answer to only request I made in the last paragraph in the OP of this thread,
Perhaps those groups that discussed divestment of Israeli assets could give us a clue:
Disinvestment from Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presbyterian Church (USA)
World Council of Churches
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
With the ECUSA suggesting "“a negotiated two-state solution” and “positive investment” rather than divestment from Israel." (in other words likely financing Islamic terrorism, since that is the so-called "Palestinian's" largest (and perhaps nearly only?) industry in which one can invest).
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults

Does one really believe that God will say that is OK to have partnership with darkness?

Recognizing God restored His people to their land for the sake of His holy name is not the side of darkness as should be painfully obvious to you when you look at the list of folks that you are in partnership with.

We as Christians are NOT to ally ourselves with ANY form of darkness. It does NOT matter where the darkness is coming from. Do we not understand that from all the warnings God gave Israel? They didn't listen and what happened? Sorry I can not ally myself to ANYONE that spits on the Lord. (Jesus didn't either)

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Where did I say they weren't?

Originally Posted by PeteWaldo

As I've already pointed out, the scriptures help us discern a Jew with a circumcision of the heart, from one without (though to a Roman Church styled punitive supersessionist they must necessarily all be the same):

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

However regarding who you "ally" yourself with it is indeed instructive to note just who is allied with whom, between those that recognize the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord, and those who reject that the return of Jews to their land as being of the Lord.
The Return of Jews to Israel

And that is what is at the heart of the matter,are those that are leading Israel,are they calling Jesus accursed or are they calling Him Lord?

Your doctrine induce racism and bigotry has removed your capacity to read and understand scripture. There are obviously two groups listed. Those of the Spirit of God are faithful Torah Jews from whose eyes the Lord may not have yet lifted the "spirit of slumber". Any Jew that believes himself to be a Torah Jew, but is capable of calling Jesus accursed, has only deceived himself into believing he is a faithful Jew. However they cannot call Jesus Lord because they are not of the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God sent in Jesus name.

Any man that could call Jesus accursed, is not of the Spirit of God (which you through your bigotry assign to all Jews, and in fact I have never met a Jew that would).

If they are calling Him accursed then whom have you allied yourself with?

I have allied myself WITH GOD, who restored His people to their land for the sake of His holy name.
I have allied myself with great men of God who recognized that Jews would be restored to their land through prophecy, from centuries before that restoration ever began to take place.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Matthew Henry: "If God will build Jerusalem for the people and their comfort, they must inhabit it for him and his glory. The promises and privileges with which God's people are blessed, should engage us to join them, whatever it costs us."

Isaac Newton: [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations.

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Thomas Brightman (1562-1607): "The restoring of the Jewes and their callinge to the faith of Christ after the utter overthrow of their three enemies is set forth in livelie colours." "Shall they return to Jerusalem again?" "There is nothing more certain: the prophets do everywhere confirm it and beat upon it."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
John Owen 1616-1683: "The Jews shall be gathered from all parts of the earth where they are scattered, and brought home into their homeland."[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1641 Oliver Cromwell stated, "And it may be, as some think, God will bring the Jews home to their station, 'from all the isles of the sea,' and answer their expectations 'as from the depths of the sea.' [/FONT]

While you have allied yourself with:
A near unanimity of Muslim antichrists around the world
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]

Are they calling Jesus Lord? Answer those questions and you have the answer.

All I have to do is look at the fruit to be comfortable with supporting the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State that protects and preserves the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims (where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Islam controlled country on earth).

I have no question about that myself either,but I for sure want to be 100 % sure that I know whom I'm following.

Your fellow fruit in your anti-Zionist tree should offer you more than a clue but your insistance on racism and bigotry against Jews will likely continue to prevent you from seeing it, just as it did in my last post.

See I believed that everything was as it appeared on the surface.

I believe scripture.

But I have had way to many people lie to me for me to take things at face value anymore.

It would be dumb and unchristian to take such things at face value in the first place.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

I want to know the truth,not what we have been told for so long. Not everything in this life is at it appears on the surface.

Your interest, conclustions, and bigotry against Jews, spring from the punitive supersessionism of your doctrine, not truth.

 

[zone]

I showed you how God sorts them out. That is all that matters. Children of the promise and children of the flesh. The children of the flesh whose side you have taken are just as prophesied:

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

hang on....ISHMAEL?

QUESTION:
how do you know drett (or any other online person identifying as muslim) is 'egyptian', as you've determined hagar to have been?
maybe he's an american black.
maybe h'es a white guy.

ISLAM is a religion, cookie.

and you got nada evidence ishmael and islam have any relationship.
given your hokey cobbled fake histories nothing you say can be trusted.

you just don't like them A-rabs....your spot is the same as Geller's spot.
NOT the spot of God's children - children of the flesh...NOT children of the Promise.

and didn't ya know ABRAM came from IRAQ, dood?

oh yucky...IRAQ? colored people?

or is it your assertion ABRAM came from here:

which would make him of the ayran variety.
handy.

but.....LET'S SEE IF YA SWING BOTH WAYS PETE:

There are also black Jews from Africa that have been restored to Israel. Do you see how your raging bigotry has destroyed your capacity for critical thought?

whoa...whoa...whoa.

say what?

let's take another look at your rant:

The enemy has made it impossible for you to see Jews as other than as a monolithic group that can all be assigned the same traits, and all be assigned the responsibility for things, as a uniform group.

The fact is that all kinds of Jews have been restored to Israel. There are atheist and agnostic Jews, there are faithful Torah Jews with a circumcision of the heart who worship my God YHWH through my Old Testament scriptures, and there are pharisical talmudic Jews who have deceived themselves into believing they are faithful while making the word of God of none effect just as they have since the first century. Your insistence on putting all Jews into one monolithic group and falsely assigning uniform traits to all Jews as a whole makes you EXACTLY LIKE what your false perception of Jews is. You have deceived yourself into believing that a Christian can pass judgment on all Israeli Jews as one group, and that is why you find yourself fruiting the same tree as Nazis and skinheads who do the exact same thing.



[/COLOR]See how you proved it again? Are ALL Israeli Jews responsible for whatever it is you are talking about? You are a raging racist bigot who now blames all Israeli Jews for a stamp?
Yet the children of the flesh that you support - in their destruction of the Israeli democracy that protects Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims - must necessarily reject Jesus' crucifixion and thus His shed blood, and deny the Son of God as articles of faith in the false prophet Muhammad, because they are articles of their faith.


[/COLOR][/COLOR]See how you proved your bigotry again? If THEY who? The agnostic Jews, the Torah Jews or the pharisical Jews? You are a racist bigot. All Israeli Jews cannot be described as having the same traits or beliefs or heart condition.


See how the enemy has broken your mind with hatred and bigotry?
In this case the "THEY" would be all the people that are directly responsible for production of whatever it is that you are talking about (a postage stamp apparently). Period.

And why should we expect that faithful Torah Jews with a circumcision of the heart would be anything other than a small remnant, just as regenerate Christians are a small remnant throughout the world?

i

THEY THEY THEY. It is the hallmark of Godless blind racist bigots to lump people by race and ethnicity into monolithic groups, and then assign uniform characteristics and beliefs to them. Exactly like you and Zone do. They - agnostic Jews don't honor anything, Torah Jews worship and honor YHWH, and Talmudic Jews have only deceived themselves into believing they do.



Yes I do. There is every kind of Jew imaginable in Israel. Is that your answer too?



Which THEY? Agnostic Jews, Torah Jews or Talmud Jews? Can't even you see what a bigot you are?



I wouldn't ignore it but rather pray for such any person capable of cursing Jesus, that they find Him. And as the scripture informs us no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed, so the type of Jew that you describe here would be an atheistic, agnostic or pharisaical talmudic type Jew - which is exactly the same type of self-proclaimed Jew that you are type of self-proclaimed Christian. His capacity to discern the difference between a Gentile with a circumcision of the heart and one without, is exactly the same as your racism and bigotry that causes you to assign a uniform condition of the heart to all Jews. You are he. Two peas in a pod. Just the same.



I'm allied WITH GOD and His having restored His people to our land, for the sake of His holy name.

I do not [this] for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake........I will sanctify my great name..........and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD.......For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

That's all I need to know. That's what puts me on God's side. On the side of tens of millions of Christians that support the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State.
The converse of the side that you find yourself on which is the side of:

Israeli Muslims
Jeremiah Wright and his flock (even endorsing the Iran backed "March on Jerusalem")
Arnold Murray and his Serpent Seed cult
David Duke and the KKK
Ted Pike (who seems to have suffered the consequences) and his followers
The "Christian Identity" movement
The liberal left wing of the church some of which also ordain women and homosexuals (these are a little difficult to nail down because they are as reluctant to admit to anti-Zionism, as some folks in this forum were, to answer to only request I made in the last paragraph in the OP of this thread,
Perhaps those groups that discussed divestment of Israeli assets could give us a clue:
Disinvestment from Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Presbyterian Church (USA)
World Council of Churches
United Church of Christ
United Methodist Church
With the ECUSA suggesting "“a negotiated two-state solution” and “positive investment” rather than divestment from Israel." (in other words likely financing Islamic terrorism, since that is the so-called "Palestinian's" largest (and perhaps nearly only?) industry in which one can invest).
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults



Recognizing God restored His people to their land for the sake of His holy name is not the side of darkness as should be painfully obvious to you when you look at the list of folks that you are in partnership with.



Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!



Your doctrine induce racism and bigotry has removed your capacity to read and understand scripture. There are obviously two groups listed. Those of the Spirit of God are faithful Torah Jews from whose eyes the Lord may not have yet lifted the "spirit of slumber". Any Jew that believes himself to be a Torah Jew, but is capable of calling Jesus accursed, has only deceived himself into believing he is a faithful Jew. However they cannot call Jesus Lord because they are not of the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of God sent in Jesus name.

Any man that could call Jesus accursed, is not of the Spirit of God (which you through your bigotry assign to all Jews, and in fact I have never met a Jew that would).



I have allied myself WITH GOD, who restored His people to their land for the sake of His holy name.
I have allied myself with great men of God who recognized that Jews would be restored to their land through prophecy, from centuries before that restoration ever began to take place.

Matthew Henry: "If God will build Jerusalem for the people and their comfort, they must inhabit it for him and his glory. The promises and privileges with which God's people are blessed, should engage us to join them, whatever it costs us."

Isaac Newton:
“Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations.

Thomas Brightman (1562-1607): "The restoring of the Jewes and their callinge to the faith of Christ after the utter overthrow of their three enemies is set forth in livelie colours." "Shall they return to Jerusalem again?" "There is nothing more certain: the prophets do everywhere confirm it and beat upon it."

John Owen 1616-1683: "The Jews shall be gathered from all parts of the earth where they are scattered, and brought home into their homeland."

In 1641 Oliver Cromwell stated, "And it may be, as some think, God will bring the Jews home to their station, 'from all the isles of the sea,' and answer their expectations 'as from the depths of the sea.'

While you have allied yourself with:
A near unanimity of Muslim antichrists around the world
Nazis
Louis Farrakan and the Nation of Islam
Communist Soviets
George Soros and his Center for American Progress
The U.N.
White supremacists
Skinheads
Anti-semites of all stripes
Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee
Some small Jewish cults



All I have to do is look at the fruit to be comfortable with supporting the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State that protects and preserves the freedom, liberty and right to self-determination of Israeli Jews, Christians, non-Muslim Arabs and Muslims (where Muslims enjoy more freedom than they do in any Islam controlled country on earth).



Your fellow fruit in your anti-Zionist tree should offer you more than a clue but your insistance on racism and bigotry against Jews will likely continue to prevent you from seeing it, just as it did in my last post.



I believe scripture.



It would be dumb and unchristian to take such things at face value in the first place.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.



Your interest, conclustions, and bigotry against Jews, spring from the punitive supersessionism of your doctrine, not truth.

 

[zone]

I showed you how God sorts them out. That is all that matters. Children of the promise and children of the flesh.

them? who is them?

......

i know i'm not listening to a christian when i read comments like yours - where unbelieving jews (or anyone) are magically exempt from being children of the flesh.

course, dual covenant heresy has to do so many contortions.

let's go ahead from c.2081BC to c.51AD and find Ishmael:

1 Thessalonians 2
14 For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea. For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind 16 by hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved—so as always to fill up the measure of their sins. But God’s wrath has come upon them at last!