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It would be nice to see more empathy towards Transgender'd people from all humans. For the most from what I've read, transgender'd people feel fairly uncomfortable with their gender. Often times these people can be bullied, harassed, and told they are confused and should conform with the gender they were given at birth. This story of this young lady attempting suicide does not surprise me as its not uncommon for transgender'd people to be treated poorly (see:http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf). Do I agree with her killing herself? absolutely not. Do I blame her parents for her death? absolutely not. If transgender people cannot receive what they seek from parents or friends (whatever that may be love,acceptance, etc),I implore them to realize that the world is a big place and they should continue to seek those who will treat them the way they want to be treated because their is definitely someone out there who will.
They aren't the same. There's a big difference between things like; teaching your children not to be vile bullying little creatures; to live up to their educational or career responsibilities; disapproval of manipulation or lies; disapproval of bring a different woman or man home every night; as opposed to telling a depressed transgender child that you refuse to recognize his genuine feelings of biological misalignment.
You don't give up national sovereignty to the UN by agreeing to legislation. You simply agree to abide by legislation proposed and debated by the various member states of the United Nations (which the USA is one of). The UN is a collective body of various nations who create such legislation collectively; your leaders are still exclusively responsible for the running of the country. By agreeing to abide by UN legislation they simply are choosing to accept the UN legislation upon agreement with its premises.
The US gov't could have created that legislation and adopted it without any UN involvement, but it's just a lot easier for countries with similar interests to adopt identical and consistent legislation.
The US gov't could have created that legislation and adopted it without any UN involvement, but it's just a lot easier for countries with similar interests to adopt identical and consistent legislation.
V
It is already happening. There have been children removed from homes because their parents homeschooled them, who required church attendance for their children, for corporal punishment. You are, unfortunately, about 15 years too late with this statement.
As to the overall story, I find the attitude of those who link faith to LGBT suicides appalling. Fifty percent of transgendered teens attempt suicide once each year -- fewer than eight percent actually commit suicide.
Secondly, as a professional addictions and family/marriage counselor, I must ask: Why are people who should know better so quick to blame the parents? Most of the parents of LGBT teens that I know are loving and supportive, though very reluctant to share with their church family what they are going through. When it isn't your child, it is too easy to be judgmental. When it is your child, if you are judgmental, it doesn't say much about your overall parenting skills.
The initial reaction, naturally, whether those who are "in" the lifestyle or willing to make excuses for it want to accept it or not, is anxiety, pain, perhaps some anger, confusion, and things like "Oh, you're just going through a phase" will probably be said. But in the parents' heart, there is love. I know there are a very rare few -- perhaps more men than women -- who find it too hard to embrace a child who "comes out." The reality is, however, that most such children are not rejected and disowned by their parents.
What those who ask "Where's the love?" gloss over is the reality that most of the anxiety, depression, and suicidal behavior found in LGBT teens comes from the fact that they know it isn't normal. Again, those in the lifestyle and who support them will not buy that statement, but nonetheless, the studies done on such families indicate that the support for the child is eventually there. It may take a month, a year, or perhaps years, for it to be voiced, but the bottom line is, the lifestyle itself is not the normal course of events, and those in it know that. The source of their depression, the trigger for their suicide, ends up being that they intrinsically know the bottom line. Facing it, living with it, dealing with it -- that is what drives their depression, not the fact they have no support.
Suicide has been proven by several studies to require two distinct factors: perceived burdensomeness and thwarted belongingness. Both are inner-self functions of the mind/body/spirit. They are not reality, they are faulty discernment. No one outside the self of the suicidal person can be blamed for their suicide. They bring it upon themselves by their errant cognitive function. That is not just true in LGBT teens, but in all suicides. So the effort to blame others for a suicide is, in itself, a defective cognitive utility.
A far better effort would be to consider how we can help the LGBT teen deal with his/her perceptions. Blame is an after-the-fact aspect of suicide that attempts to displace the poor reasoning of the suicidal person. What they need is help, not excuses.
As to the overall story, I find the attitude of those who link faith to LGBT suicides appalling. Fifty percent of transgendered teens attempt suicide once each year -- fewer than eight percent actually commit suicide.
Secondly, as a professional addictions and family/marriage counselor, I must ask: Why are people who should know better so quick to blame the parents? Most of the parents of LGBT teens that I know are loving and supportive, though very reluctant to share with their church family what they are going through. When it isn't your child, it is too easy to be judgmental. When it is your child, if you are judgmental, it doesn't say much about your overall parenting skills.
The initial reaction, naturally, whether those who are "in" the lifestyle or willing to make excuses for it want to accept it or not, is anxiety, pain, perhaps some anger, confusion, and things like "Oh, you're just going through a phase" will probably be said. But in the parents' heart, there is love. I know there are a very rare few -- perhaps more men than women -- who find it too hard to embrace a child who "comes out." The reality is, however, that most such children are not rejected and disowned by their parents.
What those who ask "Where's the love?" gloss over is the reality that most of the anxiety, depression, and suicidal behavior found in LGBT teens comes from the fact that they know it isn't normal. Again, those in the lifestyle and who support them will not buy that statement, but nonetheless, the studies done on such families indicate that the support for the child is eventually there. It may take a month, a year, or perhaps years, for it to be voiced, but the bottom line is, the lifestyle itself is not the normal course of events, and those in it know that. The source of their depression, the trigger for their suicide, ends up being that they intrinsically know the bottom line. Facing it, living with it, dealing with it -- that is what drives their depression, not the fact they have no support.
Suicide has been proven by several studies to require two distinct factors: perceived burdensomeness and thwarted belongingness. Both are inner-self functions of the mind/body/spirit. They are not reality, they are faulty discernment. No one outside the self of the suicidal person can be blamed for their suicide. They bring it upon themselves by their errant cognitive function. That is not just true in LGBT teens, but in all suicides. So the effort to blame others for a suicide is, in itself, a defective cognitive utility.
A far better effort would be to consider how we can help the LGBT teen deal with his/her perceptions. Blame is an after-the-fact aspect of suicide that attempts to displace the poor reasoning of the suicidal person. What they need is help, not excuses.
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Who decides they aren't the same?
Your bias is showing.
It's not about "recognition" of their feelings, it's about not approving personal actions of transgender, just as all the other examples above are disapprovals of personal actions.
Are parents not to disapprove of kleptomania just because they are genuine feelings in the child?
Your bias is showing.
It's not about "recognition" of their feelings, it's about not approving personal actions of transgender, just as all the other examples above are disapprovals of personal actions.
Are parents not to disapprove of kleptomania just because they are genuine feelings in the child?
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Hey everyone, did you hear about the kind, loving Christian parents who did EVERYTHING possible to try to prevent their child from committing suicide? No, you didn't; and you won't.
CNN -- Communist News Network should change their name to ACNN -- Anti-Christian News Network.
They'd probably get more viewers.
CNN -- Communist News Network should change their name to ACNN -- Anti-Christian News Network.
They'd probably get more viewers.
Im gonna talk about some personal stuff from my life, and I am NOT doing it to make the thread about me, but to bring light to this thread from a person with very real experience with this issue.
I lived over 20 years of my life as transgender. My mother has stories of me acting out in it from age 3. I would steal my sisters clothes and toys and play house where I was a wife house and had a husband and all that. I lived some time as a female and had a female name. I am legally diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder). I have spent time fighting for it, getting angry at the world, and being all depressed and crying over it. I have even attempted to "modify" my body to make it more "female" and had surgery from the damage I caused. I was the definitive transgender person. I ended up realizing the truth from some very serious things that have happened in my life that only serious believers wanna listen to. Ever since coming to God and what He wants, I have realized it for what it all truly is. It is a desire. It can start at an early age. It can grow to become a life consuming problem. And you can grow to let yourself believe that you are ugly, and unhappy and cant have what you want from being the gender that God made you as. And it can lead to evil things. But when I found out the truth, my fear of God pushed me to do whats right. And it wasnt easy. I did try to find ways to make it okay. I dug on the internet to find people who claimed to be trans and Christian to give me some loop hole. And I will admit, because I think it is meaningful, that I STILL face occasional temptation, or have some silly jealousy come into my head that I have to shake out. I did let myself feel sad. I literally balled my eyes out because I didnt think I could get rid of my facial hair. But God found a way to show me He did not want it and would not accept it. I can say that from personal experience that it IS a difficult issue. We live in a world that tells you its okay to do what you want and you cant help it. We see it everyday. And we let our desires grow until we feel that we are sad over it, that we have been cheated and cant live happily until we get what we want. But it is a desire.
I feel bad for this young man. I wish that he hadnt taken that path. But blaming Christianity, I can guarantee you this is in fact being used as justification to hate Christianity and what God stands for. My life is no worse off now that I am trying to do right by God. In some ways its actually better. How? I dont feel that I cant live happily over things I want. I understand that I have food and shelter, and can live happily without being female. I understand just how meaningless all the things we want in this life really are. And now I dont feel sad that I was born male, but annoyed that I let these desires get to me. But the more I fight it, the stronger I get. Desires are not brain disorders we cant control. Should we call greed a brain disorder that we cant control? Should we call thieves a beautiful thing that we should accept? God is so loving that He is not only willing to forgive you for your rebellion, but even HELP you get over it, as running to God often helps me get over such needless desires. Though I think its wrong that parents kick their children out and disown them for these confusions, I dont think that means they should accept it and celebrate it. Though it is an uphill battle to get over, it is for all of us when it comes to getting over desires. The best way to do it is with love and understanding, and helping them find ways to be happy with who they are, and to learn to get by without fulfilling desires.
I lived over 20 years of my life as transgender. My mother has stories of me acting out in it from age 3. I would steal my sisters clothes and toys and play house where I was a wife house and had a husband and all that. I lived some time as a female and had a female name. I am legally diagnosed with GID (gender identity disorder). I have spent time fighting for it, getting angry at the world, and being all depressed and crying over it. I have even attempted to "modify" my body to make it more "female" and had surgery from the damage I caused. I was the definitive transgender person. I ended up realizing the truth from some very serious things that have happened in my life that only serious believers wanna listen to. Ever since coming to God and what He wants, I have realized it for what it all truly is. It is a desire. It can start at an early age. It can grow to become a life consuming problem. And you can grow to let yourself believe that you are ugly, and unhappy and cant have what you want from being the gender that God made you as. And it can lead to evil things. But when I found out the truth, my fear of God pushed me to do whats right. And it wasnt easy. I did try to find ways to make it okay. I dug on the internet to find people who claimed to be trans and Christian to give me some loop hole. And I will admit, because I think it is meaningful, that I STILL face occasional temptation, or have some silly jealousy come into my head that I have to shake out. I did let myself feel sad. I literally balled my eyes out because I didnt think I could get rid of my facial hair. But God found a way to show me He did not want it and would not accept it. I can say that from personal experience that it IS a difficult issue. We live in a world that tells you its okay to do what you want and you cant help it. We see it everyday. And we let our desires grow until we feel that we are sad over it, that we have been cheated and cant live happily until we get what we want. But it is a desire.
I feel bad for this young man. I wish that he hadnt taken that path. But blaming Christianity, I can guarantee you this is in fact being used as justification to hate Christianity and what God stands for. My life is no worse off now that I am trying to do right by God. In some ways its actually better. How? I dont feel that I cant live happily over things I want. I understand that I have food and shelter, and can live happily without being female. I understand just how meaningless all the things we want in this life really are. And now I dont feel sad that I was born male, but annoyed that I let these desires get to me. But the more I fight it, the stronger I get. Desires are not brain disorders we cant control. Should we call greed a brain disorder that we cant control? Should we call thieves a beautiful thing that we should accept? God is so loving that He is not only willing to forgive you for your rebellion, but even HELP you get over it, as running to God often helps me get over such needless desires. Though I think its wrong that parents kick their children out and disown them for these confusions, I dont think that means they should accept it and celebrate it. Though it is an uphill battle to get over, it is for all of us when it comes to getting over desires. The best way to do it is with love and understanding, and helping them find ways to be happy with who they are, and to learn to get by without fulfilling desires.
P
Article Six, Clause Two United States Constitution:
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
idk...that seems pretty clear to me it's surrendering sovereignty?
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
idk...that seems pretty clear to me it's surrendering sovereignty?
S
Indeed.
I don't think any of us is qualified to give a better answer than he already did. It took a lot of guts to post that, but I'm glad he did.
The only discussion I really see there being here is how much air time do you think he'd get on CNN if he were interviewed? My bet is not a lot. That article seemed filled with all kinds of discussion about how parents should tell their children they unconditionally accept a transgender child - and no discussion about parents doing their job. Even if the child decides to go through with becoming transgender, isn't it a parent's job to have a serious discussion with their child about the potential downsides?
I mean, I'd say if a kid comes home and says "mom, dad, I'm getting married" after the second date, the parent's have a responsibility to try and reason things out a bit first. The pro-transgender people would argue that's not the same thing at all etc etc, but the fact of the matter is permanent and life altering decisions shouldn't be taken lightly.
This also warrants discussion.
Treaties do have the force of law in the United States. It is ceding soverignty to a foreign body. This is why there are supposed to be checks and balances on the ability to ratify them. Otherwise it would be too easy to overrule the constitution.
Treaties are almost never a good deal for any nation. Set policy at home, don't set it abroad.
I don't think any of us is qualified to give a better answer than he already did. It took a lot of guts to post that, but I'm glad he did.
The only discussion I really see there being here is how much air time do you think he'd get on CNN if he were interviewed? My bet is not a lot. That article seemed filled with all kinds of discussion about how parents should tell their children they unconditionally accept a transgender child - and no discussion about parents doing their job. Even if the child decides to go through with becoming transgender, isn't it a parent's job to have a serious discussion with their child about the potential downsides?
I mean, I'd say if a kid comes home and says "mom, dad, I'm getting married" after the second date, the parent's have a responsibility to try and reason things out a bit first. The pro-transgender people would argue that's not the same thing at all etc etc, but the fact of the matter is permanent and life altering decisions shouldn't be taken lightly.
This also warrants discussion.
Treaties do have the force of law in the United States. It is ceding soverignty to a foreign body. This is why there are supposed to be checks and balances on the ability to ratify them. Otherwise it would be too easy to overrule the constitution.
Treaties are almost never a good deal for any nation. Set policy at home, don't set it abroad.
Kleptomania ievitably leads to theft, which is illegal. Parents can accept the genuine disorder (kleptomania) while trying to treat the child for the condition. That isn't the same as simply refusing to recognize it. If a parent simpl refused to recognize the disorder that would be just as unhealthy as refusing to recognize the genuine medical condition in a transgender child.
''Not approving of the personal actions of a transgender''. Like what? Being severely depressed (as Vigilant-Warrior points out, 50& of transgender teens attempt suicide at least once a year), having a pervading sense of alienation from ones own sexual characteristics? Failing to recognize and accept transgenderism as a genuine psyhological and physiological problem that needs treatment and that can impact the childs live in very negative ways is in my eyes just as irresponsible as failing to recognize and accept severe depression or any other form of mental disorder in a child.
It would be neglectful.
''Not approving of the personal actions of a transgender''. Like what? Being severely depressed (as Vigilant-Warrior points out, 50& of transgender teens attempt suicide at least once a year), having a pervading sense of alienation from ones own sexual characteristics? Failing to recognize and accept transgenderism as a genuine psyhological and physiological problem that needs treatment and that can impact the childs live in very negative ways is in my eyes just as irresponsible as failing to recognize and accept severe depression or any other form of mental disorder in a child.
It would be neglectful.
It is most definitely not a surrender of sovereightny. Remember how the USA signed the first Geneva Convention after the war with Germany? The convention that outlawed international acts of aggression perpetrated by any of the signing nations? The same Convention the United States' self-sovereighnty led to them breaching by invading Afghanistan and Iraq? The US agreed to abide by the rules and didn't abide by them.
As for newer signatures on UN legislation, those signatures on newer treaties are made under the authority of the Unitd States. Nobody can force the USA to sign a UN treaty or agree to UN legislations; the American government choose to do so under their own authority.
The UN legislations signed (human rights manifesto, Geneva Convention) do not contain legislative parameters that contradict any within the United States constitution, and if they did, the USA are under no obligation (as per US constitution and right of self-sovereighnty) to sign.
As for newer signatures on UN legislation, those signatures on newer treaties are made under the authority of the Unitd States. Nobody can force the USA to sign a UN treaty or agree to UN legislations; the American government choose to do so under their own authority.
The UN legislations signed (human rights manifesto, Geneva Convention) do not contain legislative parameters that contradict any within the United States constitution, and if they did, the USA are under no obligation (as per US constitution and right of self-sovereighnty) to sign.
The issue is not about "can," the issue is about "do."
You assume that all parents "do" recognize kleptomania and "do" seek treatment for the child.
I doubt it.
It's not about "recognizing" it as a medical condition, as far as the kid is concerned it's about not approving of it.
And of all the medical conditions "available" to youth, I suspect "transgender" is not the only one that is not recognized by some parents.
I note you ignore the input and "treatment" of the only one here who has any authority on the matter,
preferring your bias instead.
You assume that all parents "do" recognize kleptomania and "do" seek treatment for the child.
I doubt it.
It's not about "recognizing" it as a medical condition, as far as the kid is concerned it's about not approving of it.
And of all the medical conditions "available" to youth, I suspect "transgender" is not the only one that is not recognized by some parents.
I note you ignore the input and "treatment" of the only one here who has any authority on the matter,
preferring your bias instead.
S
No one here was saying they as a parent wouldn't find this to be an issue worth serious consideration.
The discussion was what if their answer does not line up with society's answer. Because there are many who would argue the parents no longer have a right to make any decision about this, and the child should be allowed to be made transgender with or without the parents' approval. Under the age of 18, the parents are supposed to have a say regarding medical procedures.
I have not read enough into this particular piece of legislation to really know if it does or does not affect US law. A large number of UN treaties do though. Don't think because it's the UN that unnecessary political agendas aren't tacked on at the last minute - that's how treaties are created.
The discussion was what if their answer does not line up with society's answer. Because there are many who would argue the parents no longer have a right to make any decision about this, and the child should be allowed to be made transgender with or without the parents' approval. Under the age of 18, the parents are supposed to have a say regarding medical procedures.
I have not read enough into this particular piece of legislation to really know if it does or does not affect US law. A large number of UN treaties do though. Don't think because it's the UN that unnecessary political agendas aren't tacked on at the last minute - that's how treaties are created.