LIVE: Electoral College Voting December 19, 2016 (God be with Trump/Pence)

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RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#42
Without the Electoral College three counties in Ca, three cities on the East coast, and DC will always elect our president. The writers of our constitution were pretty smart.
So you're saying that when people live in high density areas their votes should count less? What's with the idea that a million votes in Orange county CA aren't worth as much as a million votes in Bumfreak Iowa? California doesn't actually get to vote, by the time the primaries roll around and the polls close things are already pretty much decided.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#43
One of the core tenets of democracy is that every individual should have an equal voice in the electoral process. If you believe that is right, you must question the legitimacy of our electoral college. Executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not 538 electors.

Simply dividing a state's population by the state's electoral votes approximates the number of voters represented by each elector.

Let's try California:
39,144,818 / 55 = 711,723

How about Wyoming:
586,107 / 3 = 195,369

and now to find the magnitude of the imbalance:

711,723 / 195,369 = 3.64

So why should a voter from WY have 3.64 times more representation than a voter from CA? Even without considering issues like gerrymandering and swing states, this inequality is unacceptable in any legitimate representative democracy.

I do think the authors of the Constitution were extremely smart, but this has become an antiquated system that disenfranchises millions of Americans. Under the original U.S. Constitution: only white male property owners could vote, and senators were appointed. Not elected. Our democracy has come a long way since then, and it still has some room for improvement.
Exactly. The EC was created in the days when information travelled for days by horseback. Now that same info travels around the world at the speed of light.

I supported a third party candidate. But just for example say you were holding a gun to my head and told me to choose between H and T or die. After you refused to actually kill me, I would have voted for Trump. But even if I had my vote would have never crossed the state line. The value of my vote on a national level would have been ZERO. And Joe coal worker in Wyoming would have gotten 3.64 votes for what reason?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#44
So...

You JUST JOINED CC TODAY,
and made 1 POST,
so you could COMPLAIN about the ELECTORAL COLLEGE VOTE, that JUST FINISHED...
and your profile says you're not even a Christian.


Well, thank you for coming here to complain about politics.

That was lovely.

Thanks for thinking of us.

: )
Hebrews 13:12 - Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Nice job!
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#46
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the REPUBLIC . . .
Did you not hear, Trump is re-writing that?
 

Tommy379

Notorious Member
Jan 12, 2016
7,589
1,153
113
#47
Exactly. The EC was created in the days when information travelled for days by horseback. Now that same info travels around the world at the speed of light.

I supported a third party candidate. But just for example say you were holding a gun to my head and told me to choose between H and T or die. After you refused to actually kill me, I would have voted for Trump. But even if I had my vote would have never crossed the state line. The value of my vote on a national level would have been ZERO. And Joe coal worker in Wyoming would have gotten 3.64 votes for what reason?
The electoral college has nothing to do with how long it took people to travel.
 

AngelFrog

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2015
648
58
28
#48
Yeah, fat chance of THAT. LOL
Don't presume to know me , you look foolish in the attempt.

I'm curious... if Trump had won the popular vote but lost the EC, would you still feel the same way?
I voted for Trump. Everyone knows the popular vote doesn't seat a candidate into office. Well, almost everyone obviously.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#49
Hebrews 13:12 - Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Nice job!
1. When you made the above statement...
I was pointing out that someone new was showing all the the KNOWN and COMMON characteristics of an INTERNET TROLL.


2. You apparently had no way to counter my points, or make some logical defense so...
you tried to AVOID my logical points by attempting a circumvention.


I don't believe you're a troll, but this is a tactic often used by trolls... it allows you to just IGNORE every counter argument instead of actually debating. This is a tactic used by trolls, and since I don't believe you're a troll, I want to encourage you to step up your game.
: )

Sometimes a good circumvention is ok... but it really needs to be more substantial than a flippant bit of misdirection.


3. Regarding the verse you used about "some strangers being angels"... ummm... there is NO PLACE in life where we are to randomly apply scriptures, arbitrarily, and ignore all basic tenets of wisdom and prudence.

God talks much about using wisdom and prudence, at all times.

God even tells us to "prove all things."


4. Regarding the above verse, if we apply it arbitrarily, then every time a Nigerian con-man sends you an email wanting your bank account numbers... you'd have to assume he's an angel, and give him your bank account.

God obviously never intended us to apply this verse arbitrarily, with no wisdom.

I'll reiterate, God even tells us to "prove all things."

Assuming that every idiot we meet is an angel is not only UNWISE... it is actually CONTRARY to scripture... as we are to PROVE ALL THINGS.


5. Regarding the above verse, this "troll" that you think might be an angel.. ummmm... he stated right in his profile that he was "UNSURE IF HE WAS A CHRISTIAN."

I think angels, who actually hang out with GOD... are pretty certain about their religion.

I think that alone is enough to settle the "angel" issue.


6. If we actually STUDY the bible, we can see what angels REALLY do, and how they REALLY behave...
and they never show up DEBATING POLITICS, and discussing the FINER DETAILS OF POLITICAL REFERENDUM.


Angels are messengers of God.

They are never sent to earth to debate the finer points of political referendum... they come with messages about sin and redemption... not the constitution.

Caveat:
Before you pull some odd words of an angel from some obscure place in the Old Testament, and try to paint that as a "political discussion"... God often talks about judging the nations, and tearing some of them down... this is NEVER a political discussion; this is always about SIN, REDEMPTION, and JUDGEMENT... this is never about political referendum and the finer points of some country's laws.



7. It's a sad day when we can't point out a troll without someone saying "Leave him alone, he might be an angel."

Yes, he might be an angel.

And that's about as likely as ME being an angel... along with Trump, Hillary, Vladimir Putin, and Putin's dog.

:)
 
Last edited:
A

AugustWest

Guest
#50
Haha, of course I'm no angel. I don't think anyone suggested that I likely was. But I do think it is important to help strangers, be they gentile, Jew, or angel :)

Also, I understand why I looked trollish. I am new, making political posts on a religious forum, and voicing a minority opinion (aren't we not supposed to talk about politics and religion in polite convo? lol). I'm sure you get lots of trolls here, so I didn't really expect the presumption of innocence.

but back on topic:

Both candidates were campaigning in swing-states and stregically trying to win the election according to the laws in place (i.e. both were trying to win 270 electoral votes). Trump won, according to the law of the land. No question about it. If the election was decided by a popular vote, the candidates would have campaigned differently and Trump may still have won.

But regardless of this election cycle: I think we should reconsider the electoral college, and maybe it would give citizens in non-swing-states more equitable representation.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#51
That's exactly why the electoral college is so fantastic; it gives a voice to, we the deplorables, much to the detestable chagrin of cosmopolitan elitists, aka, fascists.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#52
1. When you made the above statement...
I was pointing out that someone new was showing all the the KNOWN and COMMON characteristics of an INTERNET TROLL.


2. You apparently had no way to counter my points, or make some logical defense so...
you tried to AVOID my logical points by attempting a circumvention.


I don't believe you're a troll, but this is a tactic often used by trolls... it allows you to just IGNORE every counter argument instead of actually debating. This is a tactic used by trolls, and since I don't believe you're a troll, I want to encourage you to step up your game.
: )

Sometimes a good circumvention is ok... but it really needs to be more substantial than a flippant bit of misdirection.


3. Regarding the verse you used about "some strangers being angels"... ummm... there is NO PLACE in life where we are to randomly apply scriptures, arbitrarily, and ignore all basic tenets of wisdom and prudence.

God talks much about using wisdom and prudence, at all times.

God even tells us to "prove all things."


4. Regarding the above verse, if we apply it arbitrarily, then every time a Nigerian con-man sends you an email wanting your bank account numbers... you'd have to assume he's an angel, and give him your bank account.

God obviously never intended us to apply this verse arbitrarily, with no wisdom.

I'll reiterate, God even tells us to "prove all things."

Assuming that every idiot we meet is an angel is not only UNWISE... it is actually CONTRARY to scripture... as we are to PROVE ALL THINGS.


5. Regarding the above verse, this "troll" that you think might be an angel.. ummmm... he stated right in his profile that he was "UNSURE IF HE WAS A CHRISTIAN."

I think angels, who actually hang out with GOD... are pretty certain about their religion.

I think that alone is enough to settle the "angel" issue.


6. If we actually STUDY the bible, we can see what angels REALLY do, and how they REALLY behave...
and they never show up DEBATING POLITICS, and discussing the FINER DETAILS OF POLITICAL REFERENDUM.


Angels are messengers of God.

They are never sent to earth to debate the finer points of political referendum... they come with messages about sin and redemption... not the constitution.

Caveat:
Before you pull some odd words of an angel from some obscure place in the Old Testament, and try to paint that as a "political discussion"... God often talks about judging the nations, and tearing some of them down... this is NEVER a political discussion; this is always about SIN, REDEMPTION, and JUDGEMENT... this is never about political referendum and the finer points of some country's laws.



7. It's a sad day when we can't point out a troll without someone saying "Leave him alone, he might be an angel."

Yes, he might be an angel.

And that's about as likely as ME being an angel... along with Trump, Hillary, Vladimir Putin, and Putin's dog.

:)
Let me know if you ever decide to teach. I'll sign up for your classes.
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#53
Haha, of course I'm no angel. I don't think anyone suggested that I likely was. But I do think it is important to help strangers, be they gentile, Jew, or angel :)

Also, I understand why I looked trollish. I am new, making political posts on a religious forum, and voicing a minority opinion (aren't we not supposed to talk about politics and religion in polite convo? lol). I'm sure you get lots of trolls here, so I didn't really expect the presumption of innocence.

but back on topic:

Both candidates were campaigning in swing-states and stregically trying to win the election according to the laws in place (i.e. both were trying to win 270 electoral votes). Trump won, according to the law of the land. No question about it. If the election was decided by a popular vote, the candidates would have campaigned differently and Trump may still have won.

But regardless of this election cycle: I think we should reconsider the electoral college, and maybe it would give citizens in non-swing-states more equitable representation.
I'd like to be of assistance if you're interested in learning about Jesus. PM me anytime.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,558
17,027
113
69
Tennessee
#54
That's exactly why the electoral college is so fantastic; it gives a voice to, we the deplorables, much to the detestable chagrin of cosmopolitan elitists, aka, fascists.
I would rather be one of the deplorables than one of the despicables.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#55
One of the core tenets of democracy is that every individual should have an equal voice in the electoral process. If you believe that is right, you must question the legitimacy of our electoral college. Executive power is derived from a mandate from the masses, not 538 electors.

Simply dividing a state's population by the state's electoral votes approximates the number of voters represented by each elector.

Let's try California:
39,144,818 / 55 = 711,723

How about Wyoming:
586,107 / 3 = 195,369

and now to find the magnitude of the imbalance:

711,723 / 195,369 = 3.64

So why should a voter from WY have 3.64 times more representation than a voter from CA? Even without considering issues like gerrymandering and swing states, this inequality is unacceptable in any legitimate representative democracy.

I do think the authors of the Constitution were extremely smart, but this has become an antiquated system that disenfranchises millions of Americans. Under the original U.S. Constitution: only white male property owners could vote, and senators were appointed. Not elected. Our democracy has come a long way since then, and it still has some room for improvement.

The US is a republic actually...
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#57
...and hopefully it will be one nation under God (again).
Aww all the smart folk in here said it before me and I cant delete the post. But yes.I agree with you.
 
A

AugustWest

Guest
#58
You are correct, the US is a republic. It is also an indirect democracy, a constitutional republic, a democratic republic, a representative democracy, a presedential republic, and a liberal democracy.

Depending on what aspects of political science we are discussing, any of these terms could be appropriate. We were discussing democratically chosen representatives (electors), so I used the term "representative democracy." There's no need to split hairs here.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,216
1,620
113
#59
So you're saying that when people live in high density areas their votes should count less? What's with the idea that a million votes in Orange county CA aren't worth as much as a million votes in Bumfreak Iowa? California doesn't actually get to vote, by the time the primaries roll around and the polls close things are already pretty much decided.
Yes.............
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#60
Jeff Sessions gets to be Attorney General:) Rooolllll Tide, Rooooooooolllll:):):).