What is meant when people say 'guns don't kill people; people do'?

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iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,582
1,211
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#81
Simple statistics blow this idea out of the water.

The cities with the highest gun crime rates sit within the states that have the strictest gun control laws leaving only the criminals (who do not purchase them in gun stores) with firearms.

Mexico which as a nation has gun control laws stricter than any state here has (by far) a higher gun crime rate that anywhere in the US because (once again) those very laws have left the honest citizens powerless to defend themselves against the cartels who have no problem obtaining them illegally.

They went right to wok on it on 1/4/21 and introduced this to the House https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/127/text
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,531
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#82

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
6,582
1,211
113
#83
Of course the did. They told everyone that they would do just that. Turn citizens into subjects. The purpose of the Second amendment is to protect the citizens from the government.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I notice they began this in 2019 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/127/cosponsors?searchResultViewType=expanded and that both D's and R's are cosponsors on it and that it has a lot of sub-sections in it also. It might not be in it's final form(probably not) so we'll have to wait and see. It's interesting that it's from 2019 and introduced on 1/4/21 to the House(16 days prior to Biden's inauguration) and then would have been being discussed just two days prior to the 1/6/21 event(so media didn't put it in the news).
 

Socreta93

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2015
2,154
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#84
It means that if you put a gun on a table, it will stay there for eternity and not hurt anyone. If someone grabs it, pulls the trigger wile pointing it at someone it hurts someone. It's a phrase to say, people can use ANYTHING as a weapon to hurt people.
 
Jan 15, 2021
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#85
It means that if you put a gun on a table, it will stay there for eternity and not hurt anyone. If someone grabs it, pulls the trigger wile pointing it at someone it hurts someone. It's a phrase to say, people can use ANYTHING as a weapon to hurt people.
Who is suggesting a gun will hurt anyone of it's own accord?
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,531
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#86
Who is suggesting a gun will hurt anyone of it's own accord?
Those who propose that gun laws will cure the problem.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
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#87
one could say that a baseball bat, pencil, a nail file, a hammer, etc., can KILL people,
if enough 'force is applied'... - it's NOT the OBJECT, it's the human and their circumstances
that results in the killing, whether in defense or in an attack mode!
the Bible tells us that 'murder and killing are two very different things:
self-defense and murder are for sure two very different things, along with the
consequences thereof...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
18,537
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#89
I would have to see evidence of that claim to accept it
The evidence lies in the fact that these *virtuous* hypocrites would like to (1) confiscate all guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens, (2) make the purchase and possession of a firearm virtually impossible, and (3) ban certain categories of weapons altogether.

They believe that if there are no guns in the hands of the citizenry, all murders will automatically come to a stop. Which is not only pure foolishness but total nonsense. It is the criminals who go around murdering people, and laugh at the gun control legislation.

But these gun control proponents are the same hypocrites who surround themselves with ARMED security personnel, and made Washington, D.C. into an ARMED fortress because they fear the wrath of law-abiding citizens (which should have manifested itself already).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
18,537
9,457
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#90
California Caves on AR-15 Registration Fight
State to reopen bungled registration system, pay gun group six figures in attorneys' fees

California will reopen its "assault weapons" registration process and pause prosecutions after settling with a gun group over accusations that the process hindered the Second Amendment rights of residents.

California will let gun owners file new registrations, avoid prosecutions of registration violations for at least seven months, and pay the Firearms Policy Coalition $151,821.42 for lawyers' fees, according to the terms of the agreement. Once the court approves the settlement, California will start a campaign to inform the public of the new registration process and give owners of the banned AR-15 variants up to three months to register them.

The expanded ban targeted AR-15s and other guns with reloading devices called "bullet buttons" and went into effect in 2016. The registration system set up by then-state attorney general Xavier Becerra (D.), whom President Joe Biden has since appointed secretary of health and human services, was riddled with technical problems. Many California gun owners were locked out of the registration system. In 2018, the Firearms Policy Coalition estimated only 3 percent of Californian gun owners registered their guns under the new system.

The California Department of Justice "believes the proposed settlement is in the best interest of the people of California, and will ensure that lawfully owned assault weapons are registered with the Bureau of Firearms," a spokesperson told the Washington Free Beacon.

Firearms Policy Coalition president Brandon Combs said the settlement exceeded his group's expectations. He pointed to the agreement's prolonged grace period as a major victory. Under the terms of the agreement, California must wait 210 days before it can begin enforcing and prosecuting residents.

"After we got into discovery and saw just how bad the state handled the situation, we actually got more out of this settlement than we asked for in the case," he told the Free Beacon.

Combs said the group is hoping to keep up the momentum from the settlement and strike down the state's gun ban in Miller v. Becerra, which is still being litigated. He called California's ban "unconstitutional" and "immoral" and said it should not be allowed to stand.

"This is a human liberty issue," he said. "And if you are not able to arm yourself with effective weapons, then you don't have full access to your human right of self-defense."


https://freebeacon.com/guns/california-caves-on-ar-15-registration-fight/
 

Kolistus

Well-known member
Feb 3, 2020
538
273
63
#91
Just as we do not blame knives, forks, hammers, ball bats, rocks, bow and arrow, sling shots, or a well placed kick as being the object that kills people.

Is it not odd that you do not see the same concern for human life from the Socialist liberals where alcoholic beverages, and all the drugs they want legalized are concerned?

ABORTIONS kill people..... Do not see them upset about that
Great point!

I have a suggestion, lets ban knives forks hammers ball bats rocks bows arrows slingshots and well placed kicks. Problem solved, the liberal way.
 
Apr 11, 2020
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#92
How does doing a background check to see if a person has a criminal record deny law abiding citizens the right to buy a gun? It doesn't. All it does is make it harder for criminals to own guns but the nra wants everyone including violent criminals to have access.
I have to call you out on this one. The NRA has never advocated for criminals to have access to guns. That is 100% political bull. Your posts on this subject show you have no knowledge of the topic. DNC talking points do not constitute knowledge.
 

Reformed1689

Active member
Jun 1, 2018
151
56
28
#93
And the vast majority of those guns used in Mexico are purchased legally in the US hence more reason for the need for stronger gun laws up here.
I think Obama made a pretty hefty donation. ;) Wouldn't call that a purchase.
 
#94
gun crime, in general, is down....... More guns, less gun crime....

This is all true and there is little the citizens of America can do about it. In America we have the right to bear arms. It is in our bill of rights as citizens of the USA.

And having said that, there is one power our President has. Our President is our commander in chief. He/She is commander over all our military divisions.
The Ar15 was designed, and mass-manufactured for our military for the sole purpose of killing fellow human beings.

Ar15s

Since the AR-15 was designed and manufactured under the direction of our Commander and Chef,
the President of the USA, Joe Biden could order the recall of all military firearms as property of our military.

I vote for it
How about you--?
:)-
 
#95
I have to call you out on this one. The NRA has never advocated for criminals to have access to guns. That is 100% political bull. Your posts on this subject show you have no knowledge of the topic. DNC talking points do not constitute knowledge.
Does it really matter--
Broken & Bankrupt: The NRA in 2021
May 26, 2022
National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre and the rest of the NRA leadership are on borrowed time after a year of lawsuits, investigations, and personal embarrassments stemming from allegations of gross mismanagement of the organization. While the power and influence they have built will take years to dissipate fully, the bottom line is clear: the past year has been a disaster for the NRA, and LaPierre in particular.

https://nrawatch.org/report/the-continued-decline-of-the-nra/
 
#96
An AR-15 style rifle is any lightweight semi-automatic rifle based on the Colt AR-15 design.

The original ArmaLite AR-15 is a scaled-down derivative of Eugene Stoner's ArmaLite AR-10 design. The then Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation division ArmaLite sold the patent and trademarks to Colt's Manufacturing Company in 1959.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle

Colt’s patent should be revoked or purchased by a billionaire and then the new owner could mass recall all ar-15’s
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
13,113
2,312
113
#97
I have heard this statement used in the context of debate on gun ownership, can someone explain please?
Guns don't kill people, they just make it easier.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
791
377
63
#98
It's absolutely true that guns don't kill people, people do. If you take away the guns, the killers will find other means to kill. Take Great Britain for example, they have some of the strictest gun law bans in the world. Yet the murder rates didn't go down. The murderers just turned to the next available weapon, knives. You can ban all the weapons in the world and people will still be murdering each other, they'll use rocks if they have to. Learn your lesson from Genesis, the very first family had Cain murdering his brother. Cain didn't have a gun.

Here is some info on Great Britain and how it's gun ban failed.

LONDON – A boy, 7, threatens to "knife" a pregnant school teacher. Two high school students from opposite ends of the country, both 17, die in violent stabbings hours apart. After five separate knife attacks over four days in one area of Britain’s capital city, a 45-year-old woman's spinal cord is severed, leaving her paralyzed.

Knife-related homicides took 285 lives in England and Wales from March 2017 to March 2018 – a record since data collection began in 1946. The data from the Office for National Statistics doesn't include Northern Ireland and Scotland.
Unlike the USA, where guns are tied to many deaths, only 4% of homicides here last year were from shootings; 39% were from "sharp instruments," the top weapon.

So, let's face the facts. Tragic as it may be, we will always have those who want to murder other and they will find a way.
 

arthurfleminger

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2021
791
377
63
#99
More from Great Britain:

If you set out to write a parody showing the folly of gun control, it might look something like this. Unfortunately, this is not a parody.
London Mayor Sadiq Khan announced a crackdown on knives Sunday in response to the rising levels of violence in London, which recently surpassed New York City’s homicide rate for the first time.
‘No excuses: there is never a reason to carry a knife,’ Khan tweeted. ‘Anyone who does will be caught, and they will feel the full force of the law.’…

Guns are strictly regulated in the United Kingdom and the rising homicide rate in London is directly attributable to a rise in knife-related crimes, with stabbings claiming at least 31 lives to date in 2018. By contrast, New York—which has a population roughly the same size as London—has seen a steady decline in violent crime.
There were 15 murders committed in London in February and another 22 in March, while New York saw 14 murders in February and 21 in March, according to murder rate statistics provided…by London’s Metropolitan Police and the New York Police Department.​
This is not a parody. It’s a real news report, which goes on to describe Britain’s existing knife control laws.

In Britain, it is currently illegal to carry a knife longer than three inches in public ‘without good reason’ and illegally carrying a knife can be punished with up to four years in prison and an ‘unlimited fine.’ Self-defense is not listed among the examples of ‘good reasons to carry a knife.’​
If we outlaw knives, only outlaws will have knives—which might explain commonplace news reports like this one, which sounds like a weekend crime report from Chicago but with “stabbing” substituted for “shooting.”
Let’s not look at this as a parody, but as a kind of scientific experiment. On the one side, we have a nation in which the availability of guns has been increasing while violent crime has been going down, consistently, year over year, not just in one big city but across the country. On the other side, we have a nation that is famous for its strict gun control and confiscation of firearms, yet we see violent crime increasing. Clearly, the availability of guns is not the primary driver of crime. But we should have known that already.

I don’t know enough to say exactly what is causing Britain’s crime wave. The reports say that “much of the violence is tied to gangs,” which just kicks the question back a step: why are there more gangs and why are they more violent? But we do know enough to say what is not causing it. It is not some material factor—not poverty, because Britain is a wealthy country, and not guns, because they have taken virtually all of them away.

To look at the actual causes of crime, you would have to look at human causes, at changes in the culture and in public policy. To borrow another pro-gun cliché that turns out to be true: guns don’t kill people, people kill people. Take away their guns and they will do it with knives.
 

Handyman62

Active member
Jan 10, 2021
334
156
43
Rural South Carolina
An AR-15 style rifle is any lightweight semi-automatic rifle based on the Colt AR-15 design.

The original ArmaLite AR-15 is a scaled-down derivative of Eugene Stoner's ArmaLite AR-10 design. The then Fairchild Engine and Airplane Corporation division ArmaLite sold the patent and trademarks to Colt's Manufacturing Company in 1959.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-15_style_rifle

Colt’s patent should be revoked or purchased by a billionaire and then the new owner could mass recall all ar-15’s

What do you think that would accomplish?