Single Men It's Time to Step Up!

[seoulsearch]

i've yet to meet a girl in my area worth fighting for or approaching first. Maybe christian women should set themselves apart to be seen as christian women and therefore attractive to christian men? I mean if I see you at a bar grinding on whoever dances with you, its not worth my time to speak to you the next morning at church.

I'm just curious--if you're seeing a Christian girl grinding at the bar, then that means you are at the bar.

So what exactly do God-fearing Christian men who are going to the bar expect to see in nice Christian girls there? Do they go to a bar expecting to meet lovely Christian women sipping ice water and trying to convert others to the faith? Or maybe performing acts of charity like offering safe rides home to those who've drank too much?

I'm not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with going to the bar. But I'm just saying... If the Christian women at bars are seen as participating in unChristian behavior... What exactly are the Christian men there doing? Reading their Bibles and trying to convert the bartender?

(I can count on both hands--barely--the number of times I've gone to bars/clubs. Mostly, people wanted me as a DD. I'm not a big drinker, if at all. And, funny enough, I did get into a conversation once with a guy about life, death, and God. But that's another story. And no, I most certainly wasn't grinding on anyone.)

To me, it's like the woman caught in adultery--only one side is being judged as wrong, when there are obviously two sides.

 

[Agricola]

I think Nautilus was speaking hypothetically, but the scenario is valid.

Do not let this get in the way of the real issue, women complaining that there are not any decent Christian men, when in fact there are plenty of men, its just that the women who complain about being single are too damn picky and shallow.

 

[biscuit]

i've yet to meet a girl in my area worth fighting for or approaching first. Maybe christian women should set themselves apart to be seen as christian women and therefore attractive to christian men? I mean if I see you at a bar grinding on whoever dances with you, its not worth my time to speak to you the next morning at church.

The last sentence actually made me laugh but you are actually correct. IMHO, the majority of young Christian women aren't much difference than their secular counterparts. In reality, they played on both sides of the fence which makes them spiritually dangerous.

 

[biscuit]

I think Nautilus was speaking hypothetically, but the scenario is valid.

Do not let this get in the way of the real issue, women complaining that there are not any decent Christian men, when in fact there are plenty of men, its just that the women who complain about being single are too damn picky and shallow.

Hmmm!!! those incredible women from the old school didn't have this problem. Most of today's women have "queen, princess or a me" complex.

 

[Tintin]

My question is what were you doing at the bar?
This just amused me that's all.

Having a few social drinks and enjoying the music I assume, possibly with a couple mates. Bars aren't evil in and of themselves.

 

[seoulsearch]

I think Nautilus was speaking hypothetically, but the scenario is valid.

Do not let this get in the way of the real issue, women complaining that there are not any decent Christian men, when in fact there are plenty of men, its just that the women who complain about being single are too damn picky and shallow.

One thing I don't see talked about though when some people discuss "the good old days" of people marrying and staying together is that many couples stayed because it was the polite and socially responsible thing to do. It doesn't mean they were happy, agreeable, or even faithful to each other. It's kind of like racism--plenty of people still have racist beliefs and feelings in their heart. It's just that nowadays it's more "polite" to hold back some of the things people still think and believe.

My Grandmas are both gone now, but I wish I could ask what it was like in their day. Every generation has its good points and bad. I used to work with a woman who was only 15 years older than me (so she'd be about 55 now) who said that when she was in high school, the only reason a girl went to college was to "land a good husband." Women, in my opinion, were much more financially dependent on men even just a few years ago.

Sure, there's also some of that thinking today. But more women can offer their own financial contribution so I am always intrigued that this point isn't brought up. I would think that in "the good old days", when women had no education or means of work, the "hunt" for a financially successful man would have been 10 times more vicious than it is today. But I could be wrong.

My own personal beef isn't the things being discussed here so much, but rather, as I've written many times before, I can't find a guy who isn't hooked on porn, because for me, that's a personal deal-breaker. And every guy I've dated has had an issue with it. I know guys will say, "You're looking for a man who doesn't exist." If that's being shallow and picky, I can't say I'll apologize for it at all.

I think balance is important here. Talking about the issues are important but men have plenty of negative generalizations about women as well. We need to find a way to talk about the issues honestly but also offer some positive feedback as well. Not every guy I've met has a problem with porn, it's just that he was either taken or there was no chemistry between us. I'm very grateful to those men though, because they taught me a level of respect that part of the foundation that God uses to keep me going as a single.

 

[secularhermit]

When you were born, the central organizing philosophy was a nuclear family structure. This structure created an incentive for men to produce more than they required for their own consumption and encouraged them to take on the responsibility of a family. This system benefited men, women, and children. Society and government also benefited.

Through a combination of legal and social “reforms”, the nuclear family structure was replaced with a structure organized around the concept of child support. Previously, a woman needed to secure a formal promise from a man in the form of marriage before she could expect him to support her and the children she bore. Now the law declares that any man she has children by are bound to support her and her children period.

Men were rewarded and therefore motivated under the old family structure but they absolutely detest the new child support system of family formation. Under the old system men married before fathering children and could expect rewards that included living with and raising his children with the opportunity to direct their upbringing (in concert with his wife). Under the new system the children are de facto the property of the mother whom the state compels him to pay so she can direct their upbringing generally as she sees fit. He can go pound sand if he doesn't like it.

Since the new system has largely removed the legal rewards and positive incentives for men to work hard to provide for their families, it has to rely instead on threats of imprisonment and social pressure to coerce men into earning “enough” income. The result has been that where men used to take pride in the birth of their children and celebrate with cigars, large numbers of them now fear and seek to avoid fatherhood.

Under the new laws even if a man chooses the structure of marriage he is always subject to being forced into the child support model for any or no reason by his wife. No fault divorce laws are unilateral and openly celebrated by both social scientists and modern Christianity as a tool for wives to threaten their husbands. Fathers have gone from being the respected head of household to deputy parent serving at the pleasure of their wives. As a result, fewer and fewer men are marrying and the remarriage rate has fallen most dramatically.

Sadly true!

Today, on way to Caracas (Ccs) my friend "Bakiro" stopped me to ask things regarding his ceased brother (my friend Cesar, who died a month ago). He wanted to know how to avoid Cesar's heirs or Cesar's EX wife would deprived him from part of the real state they both owned (Cesar and "Bakiro") because that "widow" is concerned about her children welfare and belived Cesar had everything owned and under control... The fact is Cesar lacked also information about his real state: He owned a building which was built in a piece of land which lacks Cesar's ownership and that belonged to his ceased dad, who died 20 years ago... So, before any of Cesar's heirs get any thing of those sellable buildings, "Bakiro"'s family needs to arrange the sucession the so largely posponed for 20 years... I mentioned just this to show that, after dead, after a broken relationship I knew somehow, a "widow" is so concerned on the well being of her children and Cesar was so disappointed his children (or ex wife) cared for him so little... BUT LEGALLY, heirs have their rights to get part of that real state he left (the law is blind, and we people are blind too when we bypassed these legal and economic issues).

 

[secularhermit]

The good old days are well spoken of at courts, too.

Economic dependance is also sought AFTER DEATH, and I know many ladies are unwilling to take care of their own husbands needs or health issues but, after death, they are too concerned on getting what they left and -also- these fellows are to take care of other children who were gotten from other unions.

 

[Agricola]

To seoulsearch:

So all the men you date have problems with porn, but the ones who don't have a problem are not attractive to you. Is this mens fault or yours for picking these men? If ALL men had this problem then yes you can complain about it, but they don't so its not really an issue is it, its just a bad judgement call each time. Maybe that says more about the taste in men you have, in that you like the personality types who are going to look at porn. It is like the women who always go with the "wrong type", that is the ones who abuse and cheat.

There was one woman who I thought I would end up marrying who I met online in a Christian chat room. However she fell for someone who was "bad", after 6 months she was blubbing to me on webcam, apparently from day one he persuaded her to have sex. However one night she woke up in night to find him pleasuring himself on laptop with another woman.

She then fed me the usual story that I was a nice chap and would find someone soon, yes that was 10 years ago and I still have not found anyone, she thought I would make a good husband, but she had now gone off men and did not want relationship and she was deleting all her internet stuff and would not speak to me anymore.

 

[Oncefallen]

i've yet to meet a girl in my area worth fighting for or approaching first. Maybe christian women should set themselves apart to be seen as christian women and therefore attractive to christian men? I mean if I see you at a bar grinding on whoever dances with you, its not worth my time to speak to you the next morning at church.

I kinda figured you would probably get blasted to one degree or another by some of the ladies for this post.

Allow me to attempt to clarify your post. Nautilus is not hypocritically saying that he wouldn't give a Christian woman that he saw in a bar the time of day just because she was in a bar. The behavior he is honing in on is slutty behavior by said woman.

Grinding (for those who are unaware) is highly sexually charged (pretty much sex on the dance floor with your clothes on).

It is entirely possible for Christian men and women to go to the local watering hole and enjoy and adult beverage, maybe shoot a couple of games of pool, shoot some darts, or even dance without engaging in immoral behaviors commonly associated with such establishments.

I have at times gone out with some of the guys from work to shoot some pool (I'm terrible at it) and have a beer. In reality I think it has opened some of them up to the idea the Christianity is not all about "can't have fun anymore."

 

[Desdichado]

I think the OP is a fair minded woman, so I'm not going to be too harsh here.

The problem is with men and women in the Western world. People of both sexes listen to lies propagated by a bankrupt culture and class of middlemen who pawn themselves off as "experts." Women are told to act like men. Men are told to act like women. Both sexes seem to want a good old-world style relationship and fail to realize that to have one of those, someone must accept other old-world values that make such a thing possible.

I agree men ought to "step up." Ladies have to realize though that if they want men to do this, men have to feel respected and encouraged to that end. Some of the changes necessary will require sacrifice on the part of both parties.

 

[secularhermit]

To seoulsearch:

So all the men you date have problems with porn, but the ones who don't have a problem are not attractive to you. Is this mens fault or yours for picking these men? If ALL men had this problem then yes you can complain about it, but they don't so its not really an issue is it, its just a bad judgement call each time. Maybe that says more about the taste in men you have, in that you like the personality types who are going to look at porn. It is like the women who always go with the "wrong type", that is the ones who abuse and cheat.

There was one woman who I thought I would end up marrying who I met online in a Christian chat room. However she fell for someone who was "bad", after 6 months she was blubbing to me on webcam, apparently from day one he persuaded her to have sex. However one night she woke up in night to find him pleasuring himself on laptop with another woman.

She then fed me the usual story that I was a nice chap and would find someone soon, yes that was 10 years ago and I still have not found anyone, she thought I would make a good husband, but she had now gone off men and did not want relationship and she was deleting all her internet stuff and would not speak to me anymore.

Is there an exact statistic on the amount of ladies who watch porn on line, no matter their religios background?

don't tell me! when I say a donkey is grey I have already his hair on my hands.

 

[seoulsearch]

To seoulsearch:

So all the men you date have problems with porn, but the ones who don't have a problem are not attractive to you. Is this mens fault or yours for picking these men? If ALL men had this problem then yes you can complain about it, but they don't so its not really an issue is it, its just a bad judgement call each time. Maybe that says more about the taste in men you have, in that you like the personality types who are going to look at porn. It is like the women who always go with the "wrong type", that is the ones who abuse and cheat.

To Agricola:

I'm not complaining, I'm giving a different angle. The men here are saying that women are single because of issues like finances and being a "bad boy" and I'm sharing my perspective on the issue is all.

As I wrote in my post, in some cases, the men I met who did not have issues with porn were taken and obviously, out of the picture. In other cases, we were just friends and that's all it ever was. They went on to marry wonderful Christian women.

I'm sorry you're so bitter about your experiences, but that doesn't give you the right to make assumptions about me. My method of dating is like most people. You meet someone, you talk, they seem nice, you decide to go out for dinner or whatever... and then you start talking-in depth about your lives, and various issues come up. In 11 years of being single, I have had conversations with men from all different walks of life. I don't have a certain "porn-addicted" type that I'm attracted to, and I detest bad boys and players because I like responsible, faithful men. One of the men I talked to was a very successful CEO-type, and he was addicted to weekend hookups. People don't usually share that kind of info right off the bat--it takes several conversations. Obviously, I wished him well but this was nothing I wanted to get involved in... and we both moved on.

You've obviously been attracted to women who like "bad" men. I had an experience with "the bad boy type" long ago whom I found out was using my help for drugs and alcohol and that cured me for life. Please don't judge me without even knowing me.

(And yes, I do realize that porn is an issue for both genders as well. Which is another reason why I hope to stay as far away as I can.)

 

[secularhermit]

I think the OP is a fair minded woman, so I'm not going to be too harsh here.

The problem is with men and women in the Western world. People of both sexes listen to lies propagated by a bankrupt culture and class of middlemen who pawn themselves off as "experts." Women are told to act like men. Men are told to act like women. Both sexes seem to want a good old-world style relationship and fail to realize that to have one of those, someone must accept other old-world values that make such a thing possible.

I agree men ought to "step up." Ladies have to realize though that if they want men to do this, men have to feel respected and encouraged to that end. Some of the changes necessary will require sacrifice on the part of both parties.

Recently I learned a couple of things from Portugal and its culture... I wish that step out could be sought on learning on that culture too.

 

[secularhermit]

Love!

How many time have we met it (and miss it out)?

It's more than hormones, conveniences and ideas... I just missed it 6 months ago and, the more I know me, the more I plan to remain as I am.

 

[Desdichado]

When you were born, the central organizing philosophy was a nuclear family structure. This structure created an incentive for men to produce more than they required for their own consumption and encouraged them to take on the responsibility of a family. This system benefited men, women, and children. Society and government also benefited.

Through a combination of legal and social “reforms”, the nuclear family structure was replaced with a structure organized around the concept of child support. Previously, a woman needed to secure a formal promise from a man in the form of marriage before she could expect him to support her and the children she bore. Now the law declares that any man she has children by are bound to support her and her children period.

Men were rewarded and therefore motivated under the old family structure but they absolutely detest the new child support system of family formation. Under the old system men married before fathering children and could expect rewards that included living with and raising his children with the opportunity to direct their upbringing (in concert with his wife). Under the new system the children are de facto the property of the mother whom the state compels him to pay so she can direct their upbringing generally as she sees fit. He can go pound sand if he doesn't like it.

Since the new system has largely removed the legal rewards and positive incentives for men to work hard to provide for their families, it has to rely instead on threats of imprisonment and social pressure to coerce men into earning “enough” income. The result has been that where men used to take pride in the birth of their children and celebrate with cigars, large numbers of them now fear and seek to avoid fatherhood.

Under the new laws even if a man chooses the structure of marriage he is always subject to being forced into the child support model for any or no reason by his wife. No fault divorce laws are unilateral and openly celebrated by both social scientists and modern Christianity as a tool for wives to threaten their husbands. Fathers have gone from being the respected head of household to deputy parent serving at the pleasure of their wives. As a result, fewer and fewer men are marrying and the remarriage rate has fallen most dramatically.

This was such a good slice of sense that I'm resurrecting it.

And no, I'm not being sarcastic this time.

 

[BananaPie]

My question is what were you doing at the bar?

This reminds me of my Hooters experience-of-a-lifetime.

So, I'm in my early 20's, and I'm part of the youth team. On one of our outings, someone from the team sees the Hooters owl, which was a new restaurant in town at the time, and we're, like, "Cool. Let's grab Mr.Owl sandwiches for lunch..."

But to our ultra-grand-mega-cultural SHOCK! upon entering, we were, like, "Yikes, Lord!! HELP!!" We couldn't wait to get off their parking soon enough.

Then one of the brethren told another brother of our experience, the brother is like, nonchalantly, "Oh, I have lunch there almost once a week..."

** FACEPALM **

 

[secularhermit]

I think the OP is a fair minded woman, so I'm not going to be too harsh here.

The problem is with men and women in the Western world. People of both sexes listen to lies propagated by a bankrupt culture and class of middlemen who pawn themselves off as "experts." Women are told to act like men. Men are told to act like women. Both sexes seem to want a good old-world style relationship and fail to realize that to have one of those, someone must accept other old-world values that make such a thing possible.

I agree men ought to "step up." Ladies have to realize though that if they want men to do this, men have to feel respected and encouraged to that end. Some of the changes necessary will require sacrifice on the part of both parties.

Encouraged by LOVE, respect and sacrifices, both parties plus their children (not everyone has the chance to marry virgin men or ladies) at certain age (after 30's), any of the spouse may have had a red record, a sad lesson and a child.

 

[Tintin]

This reminds me of my Hooters experience-of-a-lifetime.

So, I'm in my early 20's, and I'm part of the youth team. On one of our outings, someone from the team sees the Hooters owl, which was a new restaurant in town at the time, and we're, like, "Cool. Let's grab Mr.Owl sandwiches for lunch..."

But to our ultra-grand-mega-cultural SHOCK! upon entering, we were, like, "Yikes, Lord!! HELP!!" We couldn't wait to get off their parking soon enough.

Then one of the brethren told another brother of our experience, the brother is like, nonchalantly, "Oh, I have lunch there almost once a week..."

** FACEPALM **

I thought Hooters was a restaurant?

 

[maxwel]

The last sentence actually made me laugh but you are actually correct. IMHO, the majority of young Christian women aren't much different than their secular counterparts. In reality, they played on both sides of the fence which makes them spiritually dangerous.

Reality is, we live in a culture where this is often true.
Not always, but often.

1. Statistically, women in the U.S. now cheat as much as men, and possibly more.
Yep.
They no longer get any "moral high ground" as a given.
That's the past.
In the dating world, women have to be viewed with just as much caution and suspicion as men.
They aren't any better.
They have no moral high ground by virtue of their gender.

2. On CC whenever there's a thread about "bad boys", all the ladies jump in and gush over them, and say how a "bad boy" is their biggest fantasy.
Really?
Your biggest fantasy is a thug?
Nice.
And you wonder why nice Christian men won't approach you?
I have no trouble talking to women, but there are a LOT of women I'm just not interested in talking to.


The above things are issues of our culture at large, not every individual.
I realize that.
But the playing field isn't one-sided... it's bad for EVERYBODY, lol.


Even with things as bad as they are,
I'm still going to find a sweet Christian girl,
and dote on her like an idiot,
and treat her like a princess.
I'm not going to let this twisted culture wreck my dreams.
: )