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T
I'm not "trying"; I'm telling you the truth. And don't apologize; everyone here was disbelieving at one point. We've all had our strong doubts at one point. But just keep learning! The more you learn, the easier it will be for you to understand.
I was born into an Agnostic family, who believed they were saved. I was deceived into thinking I was saved. And yet, the more I learnt about Christianity, the more I realized I wasn't a Christian. God took me out the fire; I was saved by myself. God drew me out from my surroundings. I had no one who witnessed to me.
You know, some individuals go through a really tough life before coming to know God; just like you. Again, from their personal experiences, they at first believed that God simply couldn't exist. If God truly loved them, why would He make them go through these trials?
And yet, if you go to the Testimony forum, you'll see that they all came to the same realization; when they did come to Christ, they were stronger in faith than those who had been brought up in a Christian home. And because they had such a tough life beforehand, they were able to bless others with their testimonies, and edify other believers.
Don't believe me? Just go peruse the Testimony forum.
We're all praying for you.
I was born into an Agnostic family, who believed they were saved. I was deceived into thinking I was saved. And yet, the more I learnt about Christianity, the more I realized I wasn't a Christian. God took me out the fire; I was saved by myself. God drew me out from my surroundings. I had no one who witnessed to me.
You know, some individuals go through a really tough life before coming to know God; just like you. Again, from their personal experiences, they at first believed that God simply couldn't exist. If God truly loved them, why would He make them go through these trials?
And yet, if you go to the Testimony forum, you'll see that they all came to the same realization; when they did come to Christ, they were stronger in faith than those who had been brought up in a Christian home. And because they had such a tough life beforehand, they were able to bless others with their testimonies, and edify other believers.
Don't believe me? Just go peruse the Testimony forum.
We're all praying for you.
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T
I just read dmdave17's testimony, and it was so powerful that I want you to read it (The other testimonies on that thread are here.):
"Dear [Germex]
I am much older than you, so I can't claim to understand everything you are going through, but let me tell you a story from my own life. I was five years old when I lost my father to a sudden heart attack. According to my mother, when things came out later in life, he had been a heavy drinker and caroused a great deal, so I wasn't really that close to him; however, his death did have an effect on me. Without a father around I unconsciously adopted God (or rather He adopted me) to replace my earthly father. I would lie in bed at night and talk to Him as if He was in the room with me. I can remember lying there more than once, dissolved in tears, asking "why God why?". I just assumed that He was listening and that He heard me. He never really answered, but it somehow made me feel better just to have someone to talk to.
As the years went by, I grew further and further away from God as I fell under the spell of Secularism. I committed many sins. There probably wasn't one commandment that I didn't break (since I was a party to abortion). But I never got to the point where I didn't believe in God; that is that I rejected His existence. Many times during that period, I realize now that He was reaching out to me, but I wouldn't listen. Finally, as I lay near to death in a hospital bed in May of 2009 (my wife and daughter had been told I might not make it through the night), I recited the only prayer I could remember under the circumstances; the part of the 23rd Psalm which goes "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil. For thou art with me..."
God saw me through that night, as He had many, many other nights in my life when I never realized He was there. Since then, I have learned to recognize His presence in everything. I can tell you this. He is not the cause of your grief. He is not responsible for your suffering. He wants to hold you to His breast and comfort you. But you have to make the first move. Pray for guidance. Pray that He will reveal His plans for your life. Finally, read the Bible every chance you get. You might want to start with Ezekiel 18:23: "'Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked?' declares the sovereign Lord. "Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?". God is never vindictive.
God bless you."
"Dear [Germex]
I am much older than you, so I can't claim to understand everything you are going through, but let me tell you a story from my own life. I was five years old when I lost my father to a sudden heart attack. According to my mother, when things came out later in life, he had been a heavy drinker and caroused a great deal, so I wasn't really that close to him; however, his death did have an effect on me. Without a father around I unconsciously adopted God (or rather He adopted me) to replace my earthly father. I would lie in bed at night and talk to Him as if He was in the room with me. I can remember lying there more than once, dissolved in tears, asking "why God why?". I just assumed that He was listening and that He heard me. He never really answered, but it somehow made me feel better just to have someone to talk to.
As the years went by, I grew further and further away from God as I fell under the spell of Secularism. I committed many sins. There probably wasn't one commandment that I didn't break (since I was a party to abortion). But I never got to the point where I didn't believe in God; that is that I rejected His existence. Many times during that period, I realize now that He was reaching out to me, but I wouldn't listen. Finally, as I lay near to death in a hospital bed in May of 2009 (my wife and daughter had been told I might not make it through the night), I recited the only prayer I could remember under the circumstances; the part of the 23rd Psalm which goes "Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil. For thou art with me..."
God saw me through that night, as He had many, many other nights in my life when I never realized He was there. Since then, I have learned to recognize His presence in everything. I can tell you this. He is not the cause of your grief. He is not responsible for your suffering. He wants to hold you to His breast and comfort you. But you have to make the first move. Pray for guidance. Pray that He will reveal His plans for your life. Finally, read the Bible every chance you get. You might want to start with Ezekiel 18:23: "'Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked?' declares the sovereign Lord. "Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?". God is never vindictive.
God bless you."
S
Hey bet you do not want to hear this but I will say I am sorry to hear your story. Now I understand why you can not believe in a loving God but I will let you know for me it worked the opposite. When I was a little girl I was abused by an uncle for many years of my life my family could never deal with it, till this day no in my family is healed of that pain but me. I can not describe the emotional physical pain that was inflected on me by everyone around me for many years and the stuff I put on myself. I honestly thought I had no need for God now I live alone out in the middle of know were and I started to go to a church meet a whole new group of family and friends and my mind changed and it showed me even thought I did suffer God was there and God never forgot me. I can never change my past it will always be there but I know I can move forward in life. I am not taking anything away for your pain yours is way different than mine and I hope your are either now or in the new future able to be free of the pain. You are a strong person for telling everyone your story and I think your brave with keep on going.
T
Now, there are a couple reasons why God isn't going to appear in front of you, or cause some incredible miracle to prove to you that He exists:
1) God explicitly says: "Do not test the Lord your God..." (Deuteronomy 6:16). So if you try to devise little tests to prove if God exists or not, they won't work. Why? Because if you test God, you are placing yourself in a position higher than God; you are declaring yourself superior to God. For that reason a student does not test his teacher; we do not test our God.
2) Here's a little joke that I think you'll appreciate reading; hopefully it will also demonstrate to you why you can't rely on "God not showing Himself to you" alone.
[A teacher is using the "scientific method" to teach the class about evolution...
TEACHER: Tommy do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. He doesn't exist.
A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl questioned the boy.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss (getting tired of the questions this time).
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see the teacher's mind?
TOMMY: No.
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she must not have one!
I hope you understand that simply because we cannot detect God doesn't mean He doesn't exist; by His very nature, He must exist outside of our universe! If we were able to detect Him, He wouldn't be omnipotent nor omnipresent.
3) [The following is taken from this website]:
Although you cannot see God directly in this life (but you will see Him in the next), you can experience Him through your spirit. This is the claim and promise of Christianity that accounts for its popularity. When you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, you enter into a relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which you will directly experience when you come to faith, confirms both the existence and the power of God to the believer. It is through this relationship that we can enter into the joy of the Lord and experience the fullness of the Christian life.
If you are not a Christian, you will not believe what I just told you. I know, because when I was an agnostic for 33 years, I did not believe that you could have a relationship with God. Since 1988 I have been experiencing the joy of the fellowship of the Lord and I want the same for you. Don't wait! Get your questions answered and come to faith based upon the facts, and enter into the joy that cannot be found through anything else in this world.
Well, its your choice. Do you see your mind?
1) God explicitly says: "Do not test the Lord your God..." (Deuteronomy 6:16). So if you try to devise little tests to prove if God exists or not, they won't work. Why? Because if you test God, you are placing yourself in a position higher than God; you are declaring yourself superior to God. For that reason a student does not test his teacher; we do not test our God.
2) Here's a little joke that I think you'll appreciate reading; hopefully it will also demonstrate to you why you can't rely on "God not showing Himself to you" alone.
[A teacher is using the "scientific method" to teach the class about evolution...
TEACHER: Tommy do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Tommy, do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
TEACHER: Go outside and look up and see if you can see the sky.
TOMMY: Okay. (He returned a few minutes later) Yes, I saw the sky.
TEACHER: Did you see God?
TOMMY: No.
TEACHER: That's my point. We can't see God because he isn't there. He doesn't exist.
A little girl spoke up and wanted to ask the boy some questions. The teacher agreed and the little girl questioned the boy.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the tree outside?
TOMMY: Yes.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy do you see the grass outside?
TOMMY: Yessssss (getting tired of the questions this time).
LITTLE GIRL: Did you see the sky?
TOMMY: Yessssss.
LITTLE GIRL: Tommy, do you see the teacher?
TOMMY: Yes
LITTLE GIRL: Do you see the teacher's mind?
TOMMY: No.
LITTLE GIRL: Then according to what we were taught today in school, she must not have one!
I hope you understand that simply because we cannot detect God doesn't mean He doesn't exist; by His very nature, He must exist outside of our universe! If we were able to detect Him, He wouldn't be omnipotent nor omnipresent.
3) [The following is taken from this website]:
Although you cannot see God directly in this life (but you will see Him in the next), you can experience Him through your spirit. This is the claim and promise of Christianity that accounts for its popularity. When you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, you enter into a relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which you will directly experience when you come to faith, confirms both the existence and the power of God to the believer. It is through this relationship that we can enter into the joy of the Lord and experience the fullness of the Christian life.
If you are not a Christian, you will not believe what I just told you. I know, because when I was an agnostic for 33 years, I did not believe that you could have a relationship with God. Since 1988 I have been experiencing the joy of the fellowship of the Lord and I want the same for you. Don't wait! Get your questions answered and come to faith based upon the facts, and enter into the joy that cannot be found through anything else in this world.
Well, its your choice. Do you see your mind?
C
I think the greatest display given to mankind is given in Jesus Christ. "And the Word [Jesus] became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth... And from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ" (John 1:14,16-17).
One may wish for some personal miracle, but, according to Scripture, what they have is already sufficient and if they do not receive the evidence they already have then they will not be convinced even by such a spectacular miracle of a person rising from the dead ([link to text]Luke 16:22-31[link to text]). And it is often pointed out that if God were to, say, make a personal appearance to every individual, we might have more people who believe *that* God exists but would still not put their trust in him and love him. Indeed there are already people who believe *that* God exists but do not trust him ([link to text]James 2:19[link to text]). This sort of belief is insufficient.
One may wish for some personal miracle, but, according to Scripture, what they have is already sufficient and if they do not receive the evidence they already have then they will not be convinced even by such a spectacular miracle of a person rising from the dead ([link to text]Luke 16:22-31[link to text]). And it is often pointed out that if God were to, say, make a personal appearance to every individual, we might have more people who believe *that* God exists but would still not put their trust in him and love him. Indeed there are already people who believe *that* God exists but do not trust him ([link to text]James 2:19[link to text]). This sort of belief is insufficient.
T
I went to church (no i didnt burn(jk)) and she told me to open your heart and ask god to show himself not to test and not to be like if you do this ill do that... i asked him and i prayed and i gave him a shot and nothing... seriously.... it was a major disappointment... so im sorry but i cant believe it....