Livable wage

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Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,585
2,611
113
#41
What is your definition of a livable wage?
If some one makes enough for food , shelter, and clothing, is that a livable wage?
Thats a good definition. Id also add something like MEDICAL EXPENSES (potentially)
 

TheIndianGirl

Well-known member
Nov 22, 2019
1,085
767
113
#42
You can sell property for what people are willing to pay for it, yes. And some people are rich, its these people, usually the baby boomers, who continue to buy all the property at inflated prices, leaving the young house hunter with an impossible task and having to resort to paying rent...
I live in an expensive city. Once in a while I research into buying a condo, but in the end I don't see a huge benefit that is worth the added stress, as a relatively young person. I researched buying a one bedroom nearby, or a two bedroom or small townhome even farther away, but the total costs (with taxes, condo/HOA fee, utilities) plus maintenance etc. would be basically DOUBLE OR ALMOST TRIPLE my current rent (for a studio, utilities included) depending on the home. There is no rent control but because of supply and demand (there are some really old outdated units in my building, the rents for these units keep the prices down for all units i.e., if one landlord charges a really low price another cannot charge a much higher price, etc.), the rent in my building has generally remained reasonable year to year.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
34,271
11,943
113
66
Tennessee
#43
==============================
we are both 'over the moon' because of your 'statement' of your resolution to 'quit-smoking' -
we are praying for you to commit and make it so, with ALL of our hearts!!!(hugs to you both)!!!
:):)
Thank you for your support and prayers and a very Merry Christmas for the both of you. :)
 
Dec 2, 2020
172
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#44
Right. Which is why my husband kept working and while working, searched for a job that would better support our family.
He now has a job that takes care of all our needs. We have some debt, but that's our fault and we're budgeting and dealing with it.

As to a car, we went about 15 years with one. Now, thankfully, we have 2. A gas hog that holds our whole family and a little gas efficient car that my husband drives to work. Because he DOES have to drive to get to his job. No buses available. And a taxi is ridiculously expensive. We could move back to one vehicle if we had to.

We get McYuckys once a week as a treat. Buying from the cheap menu, it costs us $40 for ONE meal. To ONLY ever eat from a restaurant it would cost us roughly $120 a DAY.
Instead, we eat healthier options that I cook, for cheaper (oatmeal or waffles for bfast, sandwiches and fruit for lunch, veggies and rice and a little meat for dinner). My menu costs us around $40/day. Sometimes less.

I wasn't saying everyone needs to give. Charity (or tithing) is something our family feels led by Yahweh to do, as we're able to.

So, yeah. Everyone has different needs. Not everyone needs the same amount of monthly income.
There are many variables that determine a living wage. I agree that if a person needs more to survive, they should get a second job or a better job.
Often easier said than done, I know. But we have had to do that.
Right. And you're correct in basically stating that "minimum wage" is not enough to raise a family on. It's not intended for that.
As for a place that requires a car, no buses and an expensive taxi... I've lived in places like that too. It's why I stick to local transit. Honestly I'm considering trying to find a way to ditch the car since i'm working from home now all the times and can get groceries delivered cheap.

As for McDonalds... I mean in all honesty I could live cheaper if I bought my own groceries and did my own cooking. But I have this tendency to either overfocus or while "waiting" on things to cook forget when I'm doing and get distracted.
At which point the smoke alarm starts going off and the house smells like burnt bacon.
Granted, I can get around this and fix this.

I agree with you, everyone does have different needs, which is why there is not way to determine a "living wage" unless you state "every single person only needs x to live, every couple needs x+1, every couple with kids needs X + 1 + y (where y is the number of kids)."

This is why it's up to each of us to figure out how much we need (and be smart with our money) and then figure out what we need to do in order to get there.

While I agree that having a stable job or career is best before having children, I think the solution is to fix the problem, not tax more people and pour more money into programs or destroy small businesses with wages they can't afford to pay.

I'm sure if we trace things back up the line into government interference (and the big banks) we'll be able to find the problem. Like oh I don't know. Banks and property companies buying up all the land and locking the prices just like an informal monopoly.

As for food prices, couldn't tell you where the issue is there. Not my area of digging.
 
Dec 2, 2020
172
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#45
$11 p/h... I can't believe how amazingly low that is...
Here in Australia the minimum wage for a full time employee working a 38 hour week is $19.84 p/h.
And even at that rate i cannot see how it is at all possible for somebody to one day own a home.
Even at $1,000 a week it is still impossible to one day own a home on your own.
This. This is what people need to understand. It's not about how high you crank the wage. It's about the market and prices. Yes. Thank you.
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
5,917
4,616
113
#46
Hi. I live in this hell hole known as Melbourne... Im assuming your in Perth. Howz life over there?
In the 25 years iv been working ive seen the median house price go from under 200K to over 800K.
However i have seen no changes to peoples wages.

This graph illustrates exactly what i was talking about.
View attachment 223931
Yes in Perth. We still have the same problems but on a smaller scale due to a smaller population. House prices have increased enormously here. I think things are more expensive here, I'm not sure. I haven't really travelled over east to compare. Rentals atm are nearly extinct because of covid. If we have another lockdown or other viruses appear goodness knows what will happen.
 
Nov 15, 2020
1,897
355
83
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
#47
Yes in Perth. We still have the same problems but on a smaller scale due to a smaller population. House prices have increased enormously here. I think things are more expensive here, I'm not sure. I haven't really travelled over east to compare. Rentals atm are nearly extinct because of covid. If we have another lockdown or other viruses appear goodness knows what will happen.
what is the population of Perth ?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,487
9,585
113
#50
I'm not suggesting this was the OP's intention, but the idea of a government-mandated living wage is a farce. Everyone's needs are slightly different, and everyone's abilities are slightly different. There are too many factors to reduce "need" to an hourly rate.

Here's the root of the problem: no human (or group of humans) is wise enough to distribute resources in such a way that it is truly equitable.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,741
836
113
#51
Universal Basic Income is being rolled out slowly, maybe by 2023 it will be law.

Latest discussions is Trump wants to hand out $2000 soon. Maybe will all be payed $2000 a month by the government one day. UBI

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfr...-i-want-2000-stimulus-checks/?sh=73174b3f2e06

The thing is, manufacturing jobs have been shipped to China mostly, so that leaves the U.S. with service jobs. Now with the new lock downs, many of these service jobs are not "essential", so they killed off more employment.

If you kill the jobs, you kill the economy, so the U.S. is now a mostly a welfare state, with a large military. Military is government jobs. We will probably all rely on the government one day, just for a ration of food, pay, and shelter.
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
831
467
63
Australia
#52
Here's the root of the problem: no human (or group of humans) is wise enough to distribute resources in such a way that it is truly equitable.
I think thats spot on Dino... I had thought that no government has the moral capacity to do it, corruption eventually wins.
Your saying that no government has enough wisdom to hold it together... Ye thats a good one...
 

PC123

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2020
831
467
63
Australia
#53
Yes in Perth. We still have the same problems but on a smaller scale due to a smaller population. House prices have increased enormously here. I think things are more expensive here, I'm not sure. I haven't really travelled over east to compare. Rentals atm are nearly extinct because of covid. If we have another lockdown or other viruses appear goodness knows what will happen.
Ye its the most isolated city out there beyond the Nullarbor. I had considered going there for mine work in the past, i think wages in my industry are higher there cos of the mining industry.
Melbourne was outgrowing Sydney and was about to overtake it but now there is a mass exodus from here...
Im sick of city life. A small town would suit me somewhere along the coast
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,292
6,654
113
#57
Latest discussions is Trump wants to hand out $2000 soon.
If Congress can hand out $2 million (or $2 billion) to non-citizens, Trump is right in handing out at least $2,000 for DAMAGES to lives and livelihood.

If citizens were able to bring a class action suit against the government of the United States for the tremendous damage done to them (including the loss of guaranteed liberties and the increased stress, and loss of loved ones through suicides. etc) since January 2020, the compensation for each citizen would be at least $2 million in DAMAGES.

And that is what a COVID COMPENSATION (not stimulus) bill should have been all about. (with not a cent going outside the country, or to major corporations, or to special interest groups, or to cronies of the politicians). Trump should have immediately vetoed this obscene pork-laden bill, since that was his prerogative as president. Let's hope he vetoes the next proposal, since it will not change to any significant degree.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,741
836
113
#58
If Congress can hand out $2 million (or $2 billion) to non-citizens, Trump is right in handing out at least $2,000 for DAMAGES to lives and livelihood.

If citizens were able to bring a class action suit against the government of the United States for the tremendous damage done to them (including the loss of guaranteed liberties and the increased stress, and loss of loved ones through suicides. etc) since January 2020, the compensation for each citizen would be at least $2 million in DAMAGES.

And that is what a COVID COMPENSATION (not stimulus) bill should have been all about. (with not a cent going outside the country, or to major corporations, or to special interest groups, or to cronies of the politicians). Trump should have immediately vetoed this obscene pork-laden bill, since that was his prerogative as president. Let's hope he vetoes the next proposal, since it will not change to any significant degree.

It's crazy times. The next 12 months should be even crazier.
 
Nov 15, 2020
1,897
355
83
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
#59
If Congress can hand out $2 million (or $2 billion) to non-citizens, Trump is right in handing out at least $2,000 for DAMAGES to lives and livelihood.

If citizens were able to bring a class action suit against the government of the United States for the tremendous damage done to them (including the loss of guaranteed liberties and the increased stress, and loss of loved ones through suicides. etc) since January 2020, the compensation for each citizen would be at least $2 million in DAMAGES.

And that is what a COVID COMPENSATION (not stimulus) bill should have been all about. (with not a cent going outside the country, or to major corporations, or to special interest groups, or to cronies of the politicians). Trump should have immediately vetoed this obscene pork-laden bill, since that was his prerogative as president. Let's hope he vetoes the next proposal, since it will not change to any significant degree.
sue China, or put a bullet in the head of the communist leader.
 

kinda

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2013
1,741
836
113
#60
Universal Basic Income is being rolled out slowly, maybe by 2023 it will be law.

Latest discussions is Trump wants to hand out $2000 soon. Maybe will all be payed $2000 a month by the government one day. UBI

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfr...-i-want-2000-stimulus-checks/?sh=73174b3f2e06

The thing is, manufacturing jobs have been shipped to China mostly, so that leaves the U.S. with service jobs. Now with the new lock downs, many of these service jobs are not "essential", so they killed off more employment.

If you kill the jobs, you kill the economy, so the U.S. is now a mostly a welfare state, with a large military. Military is government jobs. We will probably all rely on the government one day, just for a ration of food, pay, and shelter.


You know what I was thinking, this is like preparation for war. If their is no employment, than the youth have no where to work, but maybe they have a good reason for this.

Possible solution........WAR!

O.k., Uncle Sam wants you to sign up, and get those bad guys. Those bad guys are really bad, so let's get them. Take your machine gun and shoot them. It's not like you have anything better to do with your time.

Uncle Sam is gonna offer you decent pay, health benefits, education, and so much more. Don't you want to defend your country? We have been attacked in Tennessee......etc.

Another possible solution.......Bankrupt.

We are in the process of impoverishing the world, but don't worry, we will pay you to take our vaccines, so everything will be o.k., if you just listen to what we say. Don't listen to those darn conspiracies guy, those guys are nutz. Like crazy-crazy.

Green New Deal. Everyone is broke and live off of the government.

1609053985855.jpeg

If all economies of the world have cut the fat in their economy, so they can focus on the war machine. All essential resources must be for fighting, and bare minimum resources to the general public, who are not fighting the war. They just need to shut up and fight, fight, fight for the mother land.

Random thoughts here and possible outcomes in 5 years. Just brainstorming...