Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[notuptome]

acts 2:38... it is a commandment!!!

We are commanded to love one another. In this scripture we are commanded to repent. Holy Spirit baptism follows repentance and believers baptism in water follows when available. Baptism like communion is a sacrament to be entered into by believers as the Lord leads.
In matters of salvation God does all that is necessary. So important a matter is not entrusted to fallible man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Thank You Roger and yes if unsaved goes in the water yes that one comes out still unsaved yet a member of that Church and accepted by that congregation and since this, what need is there of Jesus personally, there is a great big deception from man still going on out there.
Oh and my favorite to jump from one denomination to another, I say well I have been Baptized from over there and I do believe, and I hear well yes, but no you are not saved yet, and I say well I have been to other Churches as well and been baptized there and made my confession there too, so I am saved and then I hear no not yet. Then I say what must I do next get Babtized here and make my confession here and then I will be saved. And then there is a big yes!!!!!!!!!!!! Something is wrong here in this society yes?
I believe, my Father and Brother know this, I am one in God for God by my belief made it to be this way through his son, now my Brother Christ, as well for anyone else that believes

What possible good is there in church membership if one is lost? Do not confuse religion with the body of Christ.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

<Opening thread>
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1Peter 3:21

My comments are to prove through scripture that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and by Water is essential:
Case point, the Apostle Peter gave emphasis to the importance of “Water Baptism” when he used the Biblical account of Noah:

1 Peter 3:19-22
19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22] Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Note that Peter’s emphasis in this epistle to the intended audience was spiritually educated concerning the importance of the Holy Spirit; therefore, Peter is giving greater emphasis to “Water Baptism” as being “equally” essential to being saved.

Now consider what Paul had to say concerning “Water Baptism” as being essential for believers:

Paul in Ephesus
The following scriptures is an example of Water Baptized believers under “John’s Baptism” that had not received the “Holy Ghost/Spirit”; even the former “baptism” was replaced with the New Covenant baptism that Jesus made by the shedding of his blood.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

Acts 19:2 He said to them, Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? And they said to him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:3 And he said to them, To what then were you baptized? And they said, To John's baptism.

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John truly baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

If there were any skeptics, this Church Elder was certain to record the events as separate in occurrence (receiving the Holy Ghost) and (re-Baptized in Water) performance; careful to emphasize that both are essential.

The scriptures give a clear mental picture of what is required when considering the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and that of the “Baptism in Water”. The Holy Spirit received as a gift from God, while the Baptism by Water is an act of obedience through faith. The works of that faith is submitting (obedience) to being ‘Water Baptized” (physically immersed) in the name of Jesus.
This is my understanding according to scriptures; (KJV).

John's Babtism was in water and for repentance to those that kknoiw they need God who was coming, and the most important part here is to announce the Messiah Jesus Christ when John saw the dove coming down and rest on Christ and heard the voice from God the Father, say this is my Son in whom I am well pleased.
John announces that the Messiah has arrived and John's purpose was he was born to do was then done.
There was no public water Babtism in the Old Testament. John started this as he was led by god the Father to do.
Now even John said that he was not worthy to babtise Christ, and after he announced Christ as the Messiah John stated I must decrease and he must increase
John 3:30He must increase, but I must decrease.
Matthew 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
John 1:33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’

The Holy Spirit Baptising did not come until the day of Pentecost
[h=3]Ephesians 4:1-6[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[h=3]Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ[/h]4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. [SUP]4 [/SUP]There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; [SUP]5 [/SUP]one Lord, one faith, one baptism; [SUP]6 [/SUP]one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Regardless water Baptism is a good conscious toward God yes absolutely true! So how many are using it as this being the truth a good conscious towards God. I remember when I was water babtized, I was accepted by that Church gathering and felt so good about myself, because I was accepted by the people I initially forgot about God yet used God's name and recievced rewards from the congregation, being able to quote scripture and bring in others, I was so good and yet behind the backs of all I was seeing me as not good and how can Itell the others that I Lust and have lied to keep others happy andme accepted by them. What a FACADE.
So today I just trust God to do in me what I can't do in myself by Faityh in Christ and waht Chrost did for me personally and I now hope for all to come to see this personal way of christ waht he did for all others as well and hopfully quit playing Church, and quit growing fake fruit as I once did. I one day got a mouth full of wax when I bit into my fake fruit and spit it out, then I sought for who God is and learned I do not need anyone else to accept me, since God has accepted me for me
And all that do believe do not need assurances from others only God

[h=3]Ephesians 1:3-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

 

[homwardbound]

Salvation is the work of Jesus and the holy spirit...let's look at Paul. He was saved then baptizedActs 9:17-18 KJV

And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

It is a great thing to water Baptized, but for what purpose is it used today and so what Motive are people doing this for, when there is no life without the Holy Ghost that God gives one that believes then that one is born again and if not born again then one cannot see Heaven
[h=3]John 3:4-6[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And in Acts when Peter praeched the word of god to the gentiles the Holy Ghost came upon them before4 any water Babtism, even though they were water babtized afterwords.
They recieved before and tell me if they did not get water Babtized after the reception, would God take back what God gave?
HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! inquiring minds want to know?
Water Babtism is not essential for salvation the Holy Ghost babtism is!!!!!!!!!


[h=3]John 3:7-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[homwardbound]

I was immersed into water literally but I don't believe it's the water that saves. It's the Holy Spirit and the blood from the crucifixion of Christ which saves! However, we must understand Jesus himself was also baptized so there is a symbolic event happening and an act of obedience going on.

This was for John to announce that the Israelites Savior has arrived

1. Matthew 3:16
   And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
   Matthew 3:15-17 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. Mark 1:10And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
   Mark 1:9-11 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. John 1:32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
   John 1:31-33 (in Context) John 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

 

[homwardbound]

to be baptized with fire means judgment.
and in the case of John's statement - judgment unto damnation.

but you got a lot of people crying - OH FIRE! lord! fire..more fire.

they are the ones who stagger and reel drunk in the spirit.

The fire from the Holy Ghost is for the believer to ask the Holy Ghost to turn on the kiln and burn out the flesh sinful
behavior here and now today every day through dieing to the flesh daily each and everyday thank you very much
Romans 6:11Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

One is only alive to Christ by the resurrection through the Holy Ghost, and we are to thus reckon (believe) we are dead to sin so we can be alive to God by the operation of God, shown to us all in scripture and the babtism here is the Holy Ghost with fire
Romans 6:1-11
[h=3]Romans 6:1-11[/h]King James Version (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

 

[homwardbound]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Just get baptized. Yeah, in water. Why do we fight against this so hard? It's just weird. How hard is it? He asked us to do it. So let's just do it.

Yes as a good conscious for God and to God period, not forany other reason please have a personal relationship this I believe is what God wants from each of us, just to
"Comfort Me by letting Me know that you would see Me just to dwell in My Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for Me. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

 

[homwardbound]

i've already posted on this previously in this thread.

people who despise and ridicule baptism...well....

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

people who don't believe the simple gospel ridicule baptism.
soooo.....for what it's worth

So tell me this then since when one is Babtized as in water and not from the Holy Ghost how can that one be saved when Christ said that one must be born again of the Spirit of God and John the Babtist said that he must decrease that Christ must increase that he only Babtised with water but Christ with the holy Ghost. There is a big differance here Zone between water and Spirit
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Then came Pentecost the Holy Ghost is this today over and God's Spirit is not poured out to allflesh that is williing to recieve.
It is great for those that wsant ot water Babtize if they so choose, but it is not a washing away of filth, it is onlythe begining ofone wanting to serve God today through a certain Chuirch setting set up by man, for the true Church is in Heaven where the believers are made Citizens of

[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

Hoping for God to reveal this truth to you. I am not against water Babtism at all. I am against man flesh abusing it, for thier own gain as God is too

 

[homwardbound]

People are always getting the spiritual and the physical mixed up. We are in the physical, it is through the Holy Spirit that our spiritual eyes are opened. God taught the Hebrews, mainly by using their physical understanding. Their very language helped them with that, for when they wanted to express a spiritual concept they used the physical expression of that and to them, that explained it. In our language we say love, in early Hebrew they say bring gifts. It means the same.

Some of the Jews got this mixed up, just like we do. They did what was required physically, but didn't let that go over into the spiritual so it was useless. Christ explained this when he taught about fasting and prayer. We get it mixed up at times the other way around. We say we do the spiritual so we are not to do the physical. God is teaching, ever since we received the Holy Spirit, through teaching the spiritual just as God taught before through teaching the physical. It is the same teaching, just a different approach.

When the Jews told the gentiles they had to become Jews all the way including taking on the culture of the Jews, especially Paul explained what God had to say about that. We don't have to. But we are to let the law reflect in our physical. God says that faith without works is dead. And we should know that works without faith is also dead.

Even Christ used the physical as he did the spiritual, Christ used our water when He was baptized. I don't think that God is watching to see exactly how we use it, or God would have given orders about the ritual we are to do to perform this spiritual act. If Christ used the symbol of water for baptizing, I certainly am going to follow that.

The physical Law was also a symbol and is now today through the cross
[h=3]Hebrews 10:1-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

today after the cross is the reality being born again by the spirit of God by the resurrection of Christ at the cross

 

[homwardbound]

I also have to say; does everything come down to, ''if I don't do it, will I not be saved???" Why ask that? What's that got to do with it? Do we Christians ever do anything just because God asked us to? All I ever hear is, "if it's not a salvation issue, why discuss it?" That's disgusting! Like that's all our love for God is about? Getting ourselves saved? Do we actually love our God at all outside what He can do for us?

therefore let us go to God for

"Comfort Me by letting Me know that you would see Me just to dwell in My Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for Me. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

 

[homwardbound]

Mark 1:8
I have baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

All the common sense, analyzing, deciding how scripture means this not that, is out of place. It is simple. We are baptized with the Holy Spirit, and we in our mortal body use water to symbolize that. We are baptized with the Holy Spirit, that is what is important. This you can take to the bank.

Well put and am taking it toi the bank of Jesus Christ in Heaven thanks

 

[zone]

Hoping for God to reveal this truth to you. I am not against water Babtism at all. I am against man flesh abusing it, for thier own gain as God is too

- why wouldn't you be against it?
- if it's not supposed to be done, you should be against it.
- here's this "abusing" it again...what do you mean? it's either commanded or it isn't,
- if it is, who is doing the abusing?
- if it isn't, why would you be for it?

if we just stop dropping ourselves into the NARRATIVE of ACTS it would be clear what the POWER ON HIGH WAS FOR AND ON WHOM IT FELL.
we receive the Spirit today, obviously! He is our comforter, the seal (downpayment) of our inheritence.
He is working in us.

but the BAPTISM (overwhelming immersion) of the Spirit on the disciples and later gentiles AT THAT TIME was for a PURPOSE - just read about it!

 

[homwardbound]

use whichever texts you like.
the people (after John and after Christ) were baptized in water.
they always have been.
until the Holiness Movement and all that.

Then this ? remains for all those that do not get water babtised but do believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ will these be saved? you have studied well, having much to say help me out will you? And if it is that Iust be water Babtized to be saved then which Church do I go to or can I do it anywhere with anyone?

 

[homwardbound]

what's the word for water phobia?

Yes there are those afraid of water

 

[jinx]

Actually, baptism is just a symbol of our dying and being reborn in Christ. That's it.

JESUS said differently.....

Joh_3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

HE took baptism very seriously and so should we. HE commanded them to baptize...

Mat_28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

and HE went on further to let us know what would happen if we did not get baptized....

Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

yes we have to believe and yes we have to repent, but JESUS himself said we must be baptized and HE told his disciples to baptize ALL NATIONS.... not just the Jews. ALL NATIONS. and lets face it, if you aint a Jew, your a gentile.

In acts it shows many MANY times when they did it, yes even after people got filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and they didn't do it out of being symbolic.

Act_22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

I see no where does it say it is for symbolic purposes. What I do see is the early church doing it out of purposes!
And they didn't do it to confess their faith to a big old crowd as an outward sign as well.... some were all alone practically..

Act 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
Act 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Act 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Act 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

 

[HollyLoree]

Wow. If this isn't the ultimate in "over thinking a simple issue" thread, I don't know what is.

 

[jinx]

I feel I know God at the very least as well as you and I believe that even as that criminal who died alongside Christ needed no water baptism it was his express faith in God and the Christ as the Ark of salvation which saved him.

JESUS wasn't dead yet when HE told that criminal that he would be with HIM in paradise. They was still under the old testament, in order for the new testament to have affect and the new laws put into place there has to be a death of the testator....

Heb_9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. Heb_9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Even those under Johns baptism had to go with the new laws and be re-baptized.

 

[homwardbound]

submerse meaning what?
teaching?
'Holy Spirit baptism' with evidence of babbling?

or be baptized in water?

John 3:30He must increase, but I must decrease John is the one that brought water Babtism otthe public to announce Christ
Matthew 3:11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Jesus does not Babtise with water Jesus Babtises with the Holy Ghost and fire hmm!!!!!!!!!!!! the after his resurrection is is stated in Acts 1:5
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

then came Pentecost, the Holy Ghost WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! are you by any chance saying we do not need the Holy Ghost for salvation completion, if so that is like saying the resurrection did not happen 1 cor 15 talks well about this. John 3 talks about how one can't recive the kingdom of heaven without being born again, first of the flesh from Mom's womb the water breaks and we are born into this world then by the Spirit of Christ from the resurrection of Christ at the cross

 

[jinx]

We are commanded to love one another. In this scripture we are commanded to repent. Holy Spirit baptism follows repentance and believers baptism in water follows when available. Baptism like communion is a sacrament to be entered into by believers as the Lord leads.
In matters of salvation God does all that is necessary. So important a matter is not entrusted to fallible man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you need to read that verse again.....

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[homwardbound]

what's the word for disobedience?

UNBELIEF.

Water Babtism does not do the saving it is only for a good conscious towards God, and is good to dofor that reason and that reason only. It is the Holy Ghost Babtism that tranfers us from death to life in the Spirit where God can only be worshipped

1. John 4:23
   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
   John 4:22-24 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
2. John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
   John 4:23-25 (in Context) John 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
3. John 14:17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
   John 14:16-18 (in Context) John 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
4. John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.