Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?
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W
that seems clear & unambiguous --
in the original Greek, "promises" (epaggalia) were given to Jesus the Chosen son of Abraham (Gal 3); "grace" (charisma) was given to all Jews, as to all sons of Abraham, as to all gentiles, i.e. to all humans world-wide (Rom 11). That grace is the (notional) offer of Salvation by Faith, via Holy Spirit, in Jesus as Christ, and also Lord.
From the NT Greek, no ambiguity exists (except how is Grace extended to everybody, "many called", when only a few are also Chosen, Matt 20,22 ?).
in the original Greek, "promises" (epaggalia) were given to Jesus the Chosen son of Abraham (Gal 3); "grace" (charisma) was given to all Jews, as to all sons of Abraham, as to all gentiles, i.e. to all humans world-wide (Rom 11). That grace is the (notional) offer of Salvation by Faith, via Holy Spirit, in Jesus as Christ, and also Lord.
From the NT Greek, no ambiguity exists (except how is Grace extended to everybody, "many called", when only a few are also Chosen, Matt 20,22 ?).
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J
i think that, once again, people are failing to take into consideration the dual nature of prophecy...... the re-establishment of the physical nation of israel began may 14-15,1948. it is the precursor to the spiritual fulfillment. the either or attitude on this subject is extremely divisive. the prophecies are always dual and the physical expression of those prophecies always precede the spiritual.
Which then means there is no difference between them and anyone else. Only the remnant by faith among all men are being saved. Indeed, that was what God's dispersing them into all the nations pictured.
You asked: "From the NT Greek, no ambiguity exists (except how is Grace extended to everybody, "many called", when only a few are also Chosen, Matt 20,22 ?)"
Grace does not save us in and of itself. Grace IS saving us by grace being the only way we have to a living status where we can work with Christ by love toward the completion of our salvation.
Those that are not chosen are those who though called, cannot be chosen due to being unwilling to some degree to let go of directing their own steps. Thus many come to Christ, but only few really give themselves to fully cooperate with Christ. And they cannot therefore be chosen.
You asked: "From the NT Greek, no ambiguity exists (except how is Grace extended to everybody, "many called", when only a few are also Chosen, Matt 20,22 ?)"
Grace does not save us in and of itself. Grace IS saving us by grace being the only way we have to a living status where we can work with Christ by love toward the completion of our salvation.
Those that are not chosen are those who though called, cannot be chosen due to being unwilling to some degree to let go of directing their own steps. Thus many come to Christ, but only few really give themselves to fully cooperate with Christ. And they cannot therefore be chosen.
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S
Hey, I don't get this AT ALL! I heard not one mention of Jesus Christ in all of this video. So you people are suggesting that these people who have never recognized their Messiah, the very fulfillment of the promise given to them by their God, the ultimate reason for His covenant with them in the first place, are still God's special special, super blessed people? Have you forgotten that Jesus said the promise would be taken from them and given to another? BECAUSE they rejected their cornerstone? Has that changed? Have they accepted Jesus Christ, the very fulfillment of their covenant with God? Also, some if not all of these ancient prophecies, that Israel would be put back in their homeland, etc., were already fulfilled in the OT. Now, it's not like I don't believe many Jews will come to Christ in the last days, but to say their return to Israel is, at this point in time, a fulfillment of those prophecies seems highly questionable. Sure, I want to see them back there, but only because I desire for them to accept their messiah, for until they do, they will not God's people, and when they do, they will be no more God's people than anyone that accepts Christ, and hence, have become grafted in the vine, and are now part of the true Israel, the body of Christ. To say otherwise is to simply ignore scriptures. Again, Jesus said he was taking the promise away from the Jewish people (because they rejected Him) and was giving it to another people. This "the Jewish people in Israel is God's will and everyone better support it or God's against it stuff is super questionable. These people are NOT CHRISTIANS! They are no more Christians than the Muslims! They have not accepted Christ. Sure, we desire to encourage them towards that end, but they are NOT until they ARE! There's something very wrong with pushing this kind of thinking!
You as Christians think it's Ok to support their form of spirituality WITHOUT accepting Christ? What did Christ say about that? And what about the celebrities on this video supporting this stuff? Are they Christians? What's the deal here?
I REALLY have to wonder about this video. Was the name of Jesus mentioned even once?
You as Christians think it's Ok to support their form of spirituality WITHOUT accepting Christ? What did Christ say about that? And what about the celebrities on this video supporting this stuff? Are they Christians? What's the deal here?
I REALLY have to wonder about this video. Was the name of Jesus mentioned even once?
When I click on a like it is because I believe I understand what has been posted and why. It is not to fan any flames of discontent within the people posting, though there are times it cannot be avoided.
All concerned, please forgive me if my likes are taken in any other manner than to encourage a just position and declaration in the light of Yahweh's truth.
It is never a good feeling to feel abandoned by fellows in Yeshua, especially when insinuations and direct affronts occur. Yahweh bless all here who are truly in Yeshua in spirit and truth, amen.
All concerned, please forgive me if my likes are taken in any other manner than to encourage a just position and declaration in the light of Yahweh's truth.
It is never a good feeling to feel abandoned by fellows in Yeshua, especially when insinuations and direct affronts occur. Yahweh bless all here who are truly in Yeshua in spirit and truth, amen.
S
Kardiaoangelous, that was the WRONG answer. I thought that much of what you had to say was interesting, though there was also a lot I wasn't getting where it came from. But when you say this? You should never ever say this, especially in regard to what and who you were addressing. That did not come from the Holy Spirit. You should go pray and ask for guidance. You seriously need to readdress who you serve.
S
I think your points are very valid. I'm divided over this myself. I don't think the Jews are "God's People" until they accept Christ. However, I definitely think that's God's desire as well as His intention, to bring them back to Him. I actually feel that desire deeply within myself. Obviously, they're super special in the way that through them, Christ came. I sure don't think this is about who's top dog though. lol. I think we put them there (I mean back in Israel in the 1940s) and we're responsible for them from that perspective. We're also responsible in my opinion to protect any people who are being oppressed. I just don't believe we should think we MUST defend them based on the idea alone that they're still God's chosen people and God will get us if we don't. Our attitude towards them should be what it is towards any nation. We should desire to share the gospel with them; bring them to Christ, and we should defend them if it's right to do defend them. As for whether or not this is God's will that they're back there? I'm sure it's part of "what's been prophesied to come to pass." But again, that doesn't mean they're all God's people, or that God even planned it this way. Maybe He just knew it would happen. Zionists, however, from what I've heard, absolutely do not accept Christ and most are even atheists? So again and again, they're no different than any atheist, Muslim, or what we might call pagan in this world. We still love them though, obviously, and desire to bring them to Christ.
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Amen, so be willing always to try the spirit by looking to find if there is any true word of God in it. It is not being obedient to the counsel at 1 John 4:1 to only try the spirit as to your perception of love.
Love hates evil and clings to what is good. What is good is God's truth (all of it) which sets us free. Not this mistaken idea you seem to have that this kind of love which excuses anything and which even the wicked are able to do.
John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
I have spoken enough toward that and so now I will go back to ignoring the chatter of ignorance of truth.
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S
I repeat. This is alarming to read. You are not God, and you do not speak for God. You're basically cursing these people because they disagree with you. That shows a total lack of wisdom on your part.
What I see here is a gross arrogance, as in the very opposite of humility. You obviously think you speak for God Himself and have a private line into a perfect understanding of scriptures. Gross arrogance, is again, the very opposite of what Christ told us to have. What do you think will happen next? Your prophecy will most probably be exacted upon yourself.
What I see here is a gross arrogance, as in the very opposite of humility. You obviously think you speak for God Himself and have a private line into a perfect understanding of scriptures. Gross arrogance, is again, the very opposite of what Christ told us to have. What do you think will happen next? Your prophecy will most probably be exacted upon yourself.
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