Sunday - the first day of the week

crossnote · Jul 7, 2013

Ok then, I just can't believe you when you come up with quotes like this ''
My argument here is simple. If people believe Yeshua, Whom many call Jesus, and they do one thing or another to please Him, it is not good to criticize or ridicule them for having a personal style of worship, even if it seems hilarious to someone other.''

Seems like you say one thing but practice another.

JaumeJ · Jul 7, 2013

So I gather you are maintaining that by stating a fact I am ridiculing. When I relate anything I beleive to be truth, I am not laughing.

As for what I practice, you cannot know, but I am able to say this, you would know somewhat were you to have read and understood what I have always posted.

I ask that all read the Word, believe it, and worship God. As for anything else, it is my sharing what I have experienced in my walk, given me by the Lord, just as you have yours.

I do not see much testimony from many here because there only interest is to cut and paste lots of keyword searches from the Word purported as having been profoundly understood. This is not sharing understanding, this is simply cutting and pasting.

PS If you insist on keeping this an exchange on a personal level, you really should use messaging.

crossnote said:

zone · Jul 7, 2013

JaumeJ said:

oh dear.
yes, the religion of Judaism is filled with superstitions and hypocritical fear of all things pagan. the NAME of a day of the week - OH NO! it has the word SUN in it.

yet Judaism is the most pagan religion on earth, daring to invoke the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, while cursing Jesus Christ - teaching He is BOILING IN HELL IN EXCREMENT.

and all the harlots who claim the Name of Jesus love to have it so.

Malachi 4:2
The Great Day of the Lord
1For, behold, the day comes, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that comes shall burn them up, said the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 2But to you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and you shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 3And you shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, said the LORD of hosts.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made

Colossians 2
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:3
The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

Romans 14:5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

^ don't tell me you obey Yeshua when you can't even come out of the shadows and obey this command ^

zone · Jul 7, 2013

loveme1 said:

here's instruction from the New Covenant.

Romans 14:5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

God bless you in the day you esteem.

JaumeJ · Jul 7, 2013

The OP is Sunday. I afforded the source of the compound word-name of the day. If this is wrong, well gosh, I have gone against the laws of Zone.

As far as superstitions and Jews are concerned, I once visited the ruins of a synagogue near Tiberius. It had the place for the Torah in the back and on the floor in mosaic was the zodiac with all of its signs incorporated into the one-time Jewish worship. What does any of this have to do with glorifying the first day of the week?

You know God designated the Seventh Day to be set aside, separate, holy. Not even Zone is given to rewrite that to mean the first day of the week, Sunday, no matter how many times something is written about the first day of the week, there is NO COMMANDMENT CHANGING THE SABBATH TO THE FIRST DAY. Can all fathom this very basic understanding from the Word? I sure can, and so millions of others do.

Read the Word, believe it, and worship God...............that is all.

zone · Jul 7, 2013

JaumeJ said:

so laughing or not laughing determines the sincerity of one posting what they believe to be truth?
contrived manners of speech indicate sobriety?

JaumeJ said:

great.
can we post passages from scripture and exegete them?
or this is not what you meant?
is this forum for opinion piled on opinion piled on personal testimony?

this is BIBLE discussion forum.

a person's testimony is valued.
but how many times do you intend to share it in Bible Study?

JaumeJ said:

your walk, given you by the Lord is wonderful.
this is a Bible discussion forum.

cut & pasting passages from scripture for discussion is expected (i hope...otherwise it's just a bunch of opinions)

cutting & pasting INFORMATION about topics - Sunday; Hebrew Roots Movement; etc....requires KNOWING something about the subject.

is information and research on the subject with sources cited for helps an issue for you?
is it better if we just guess about the subjects?

JaumeJ said:

which is it Jack?

JaumeJ said:

i reckon most of it is going over your head then.
which is it? do you want the word studied and shared? or people's personal testimonies over and over?

i don't know about anyone else. but if something from the Word is being discussed, i want to see the passage - in context.
not somebody's fuzzy opinion in contrived speeches.

JaumeJ said:

oh wow

now THAT is funny.

zone · Jul 7, 2013

JaumeJ said:

let's see....SUN-day.
yep. it has SUN in it.
and yep. the names of the days of the week used around the world are paganized.

SO WHAT?

are you superstitious?

is Jesus GREATER than any of that?

JaumeJ said:

glorifying the first day of the week?

this is beyond absurd.

me thinks some folks have made a golden calf out of a day of the week after SPECIFICALLY being instructed NOT TO.

btw:

did God call a specific day - "the first day of the week" - THE FIRST DAY?

does He like His first day?

did He say it was GOOD?

did God do anything on the first day?
does He hate the first day?

......

here's some cut & paste.
see if you can spot the Two Covenants.

One Covenant was made with ISRAEL....you're not of Israel.
even if you were, that Covenant is gone

the NEW is entirely NEW....liberty....hard to swallow huh?

you can belong to Hagar if you want to.
what does Paul say about it?

did Jesus specifically call Paul and teach him?
was Paul Holy Spirit inspired?

Galatians 4
Sons and Heirs
1I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave,a though he is the owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principlesb of the world. 4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. 9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years! 11I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

12Brothers,c I entreat you, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You did me no wrong. 13You know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first, 14and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. 15What then has become of the blessing you felt? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have gouged out your eyes and given them to me. 16Have I then become your enemy by telling you the truth?d 17They make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them. 18It is always good to be made much of for a good purpose, and not only when I am present with you, 19my little children, for whom I am again in the anguish of childbirth until Christ is formed in you! 20I wish I could be present with you now and change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

JaumeJ said:

that Covenant is gone.
The Law was brought in after the Promise.
because of transgressions.

you don't keep the 7th day as it came from Sinai.
please. not one person on earth does.

isn't there a better Covenant?

JaumeJ said:

I KNOW.
no one here has said the Sabbath was changed to Sunday

but just ignore this statement again...because you can keep using it to cling to Hagar.

JaumeJ · Jul 7, 2013

Originally Posted by JaumeJ

I ask that all read the Word, believe it, and worship God.
which is it Jack? (asked by Zone)

From this alone it seems you are losing it again.

However if you really need a reply...........all the above. Zone, I am not so important as to spend so much time. Your thinking and theology is so very important.

I will stay with what Jesus teaches...........I call Him Yeshua also.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jul 7, 2013

JaumeJ said:

That's right, the OP is about Sunday. Quit spamming the thread that it's about Sunday becoming the sabbath. It didn't

JaumeJ · Jul 7, 2013

I go by the example given............also, I was in conversation with Zone. Are you she? If so I will try to remember this other name.

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jul 7, 2013

JaumeJ said:

Why don't you try to get it through your head that you don't have liberty here to spam as you see fit. You've been told this thread is not about Sunday having become the sabbath. That is something you are trying to read into it for your own agenda. You act like you're senile...

zone · Jul 7, 2013

The Mosiac covenant was the Ten Commandment Law.

MOSES
Promise—A Great Land
Exodus 2:24-25
Condition—Obedience
Exodus 19:7-8
Sign—The Sabbath
(Exodus 31:12-18 & Exodus 20:8-11)

Exodus 34:28
And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deut. 4:13
And He declared to you His covenant which He commanded to you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tables of stone.

Also read: Deut 9:9-12, 15; 10:4; Deut 5:2-22; 1 Kings 8:9, 21

The Ten Commandment Law was not given before Sinai.

Deut. 5:2-3 says,
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us."

Then he gives the Ten Commandments in vss. 6-22.

Thus the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments, had a definite beginning and a definite end.

Gal. 3:19 clearly states, "The law was added UNTIL the seed should come."

........

Jeremiah 31:31-32
"I will make a new covenant...NOT like the covenant that I made with their fathers when I took them out of Egypt."

is the New Covenant like the Covenant at Horeb?

or is it NOT like that Covenant God made only with them at Horeb?

is the Covenant made at Horeb the Covenant God is in with His people?

or did HE MAKE a New Covenant?

what is the NEW Covenant based on?

is it better promises?

to Whom were the Promises made? was it Abraham and Jesus?

.......

ABRAHAM
Genesis 15-17 (Everlasting)
Promise—Father of Multitudes
Genesis 15:1-5
Condition—Faith: Abraham believed
Genesis 15:6
Sign—Circumcision (Gen. 17:10-13)

......

NEW COVENANT based on better promises - SPIRITUAL ETERNAL PROMISES.

Promise =Eternal Life to all who believe (Jn 3:16)
Condition =Faith (Rom 3:21-28)
Sign =The Lord's Supper (I Cor 11:25, Luke 22:20, Mark 14:24)

The Bible declares that upon Jesus Christ's death and resurrection a new covenant was ratified. Romans makes it clear that under this new covenant we are:

(Jesus was resurrected on THE FIRST DAY)

under this new covenant we are:

Romans 7:1-6
"released from the law" v. 2 "dead to the law through the body of Christ" v. 4 "Delivered from the law" v. 6

Which law? verse 7 "...For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said 'Thou shall not covet." (Compare to Exodus 20:17 & I Tim. 1:6-11)

The Covenants

One3Seven · Jul 7, 2013

zone said:

The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do not have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus' resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!

1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection - Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18

2). To two disciples going to Emmaus - Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13

3). To Simon (Peter) - Luke 24:31-35.

4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday - Mark 16:14-18; Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23

5). To the Eleven disciples "Eight days later" - John 20:26-29

Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn't make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.

When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.

1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).

2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).

3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the communion meal (Luke 22:19) and their "eyes were opened and they recognized Him" (Luke 24:31).

4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying "Peace be with you" (John 20:20; 26).

5). That same Sunday evening Jesus "...breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'" John 20:22.

6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).

The Sabbath & Sunday

Can I clarify what you are Saying? in bold letters above; Are you saying that these first day of the week apearances gives this day a special significance?

It could also be interpreted as not wanting to take away, or respecting the significance of the Sabbath.

zone · Jul 7, 2013

One3Seven said:

okay.
but the New Testament does not teach any special signifcance on the Sinai sabbath.

Luke 22
Institution of the Lord’s Supper
14And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him. 15And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16For I tell you I will not eat itb until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves. 18For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” 20And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood

zone · Jul 7, 2013

zone said:

are these not glorious events?

what is the problem here folks?
really?

i don't understand....i really don't.

zone said:

was Pentecost a DAY ordained by God for a specific purpose?
Does God like His First Day of the week?

apparently, because He poured out the long awaited promise on that day.

today we call that day Sunday....SUN...oh. it has SUN in it.

is this a bad thing or a good thing?

is the first day of the week Holy for this reason alone?

Romans 14:5
In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable.

WHO made 7 days?

was it GOD?

does He like all those days?

it's amazing.

zone said:

are we offended by this???

zone said:

is there something less important about the First Day?
did Jesus say anything against the first day?

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jul 7, 2013

zone said:

Just a point of clarity because it is important... The 10 commandments were not the Mosaic (old) covenant; they were the covenant LAW that defined Israel's responsibilities under that covenant.

zone · Jul 7, 2013

HeRoseFromTheDead said:

right, thank you.

Bluecomet · Jul 7, 2013

Very good answer. God said do what you have to do in six days. For the SABBATH is mine.

JaumeJ · Jul 7, 2013

The Mosiac covenant was the Ten Commandment Law.

MOSES
Promise—A Great Land
Exodus 2:24-25
Condition—Obedience
Exodus 19:7-8
Sign—The Sabbath
(Exodus 31:12-18 & Exodus 20:8-11)

Exodus 34:28
And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
These commandments are now engraved, written, on the fleshy tablets of our hearts making it unecessary to have to read them, because it is our new nature because of the Holy Spirit directing us as we continue on the Way given us by Yeshua.

Deut. 4:13
And He declared to you His covenant which He commanded to you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tables of stone.
Yes, Ten Commandments, on our hearts now. No one ever made them nine commandments. To say this is contrary to the Word of Yahweh.

Also read: Deut 9:9-12, 15; 10:4; Deut 5:2-22; 1 Kings 8:9, 21
From what I have seen so far, perhaps you should read these numbered references.

The Ten Commandment Law was not given before Sinai.
Is not Sinai representative of Pentacost? If so, it makes perfect sense that the stone tablets would be engraved afterward, just as our fleshy tablets are engraved with the same commandments after the coming of the Comforter Who gives us all understanding.

Deut. 5:2-3 says,
"The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us."
Then he gives the Ten Commandments in vss. 6-22.
And so it is after the receiving of the Holy Spirit the Commandments are engraved on the fleshy tablets of our hearts with no need to refer to dead writing, the Commandments are now vivid, alive, and by the Holy Spirit are become our new nature.

Thus the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments, had a definite beginning and a definite end.
There is no end to good and moral behavior, and to teach against the commandments is wrong, very wrong.

Gal. 3:19 clearly states, "The law was added UNTIL the seed should come."
Now mixing law, ordinances and statutes with Commandments is not the work of Light.

........

Promise =Eternal Life to all who believe (Jn 3:16)
Condition =Faith (Rom 3:21-28)
Sign =The Lord's Supper (I Cor 11:25, Luke 22:20, Mark 14:24)
And this is a sign of what in your mind? The seder is to be done in memory of Yeshua, Jesus.
The Bible declares that upon Jesus Christ's death and resurrection a new covenant was ratified. Romans makes it clear that under this new covenant we are:
Jesus completed all that was written of Him. The New Covenant was given to Abraham.
(Jesus was resurrected on THE FIRST DAY)
It was prophesied He would be in the earth three days and nights. He was crucified on a Friday according to real scholars, as for counting from there, I need no scholarly advice, I believe He fulfilled all prophesy, so there is no need for me to be convinced what day it was He rose, but many will say from Friday, before sunset, it is counted Saturday, Sunday, and Monday to fulfill all righteousnous.
under this new covenant we are:

Romans 7:1-6
"released from the law" v. 2 "dead to the law through the body of Christ" v. 4 "Delivered from the law" v. 6
When reading the Law and the prophets I see grace there, for many and all who knew Yahweh, God. If you read in the Proverbs we are instructed never to return evil for evil, never to do to our enemy as he has done to us, yet most pseudo-scholars are only able to come up with, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
Also it is written in the law and the prophets, God's grace is fresh every morning. Why is all of this wisdom overlooked by the unlearned I ask?

Which law? verse 7 "...For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said 'Thou shall not covet." (Compare to Exodus 20:17 & I Tim. 1:6-11)

If you are indeed asking which law here, it is one of the Commandments of Yahweh, and whether we know the Messiah or not, it is never good to lust after anything that is not our own, and then even some things that are our own.

The Covenants

HeRoseFromTheDead · Jul 7, 2013

One3Seven said:

Considering the events that occurred on the first day, Sunday obviously has a very special significance.

Whoever thinks that detracts from the sabbath, that's your problem. Take it up with GOD.

Sunday - the first day of the week

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