Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?
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"But the wicked shall perish,, the enemies of the Lord,, shall vanish,, into smoke, they shall vanish away." (Psalms 37:20)
The fire stops when there is nothing left to consume.
The same as a campfire.. it will go out once it burns all the wood. Unless you add stuff to it,, eventually it will go out.
The Bible is clear,, the wicked are turned into ashes. Malachi 4:3
Ash is the result of a fire. Satan shall become ash as well. (Ezekiel 28:18,19)
The wages of sin is death! Not eternal life in some flames.
I get it to mean that their deaths are eternal,,, no relief. Dead forever.
What part of Ezekiel 28:18,19 dont you get?
What part of malachi 4:3 don't you get?
Why can you not understand that ash is the result of a fire?
Why can't you put all the scriptures together to get a clear picture,, instead of taking some scriptures that symbolically make the claim that the wicked live forever?
God says the wages of sin is death!
Either God is a liar or you are mis-interpreting the scripture.
The wages of sin is not eternal life in some flames,,,, the wages of sin is DEATH!!!!
"Sin, when it is finished bringeth forth death."
What part of that dont you get?
God says "the soul that sinneth shall die". he doesn't say, the soul that sinneth lives forever.
Satan, on the other hand teaches this "Ye shall not surely die."
What part of Ezekiel 28:18,19 dont you get?
What part of malachi 4:3 don't you get?
Why can you not understand that ash is the result of a fire?
Why can't you put all the scriptures together to get a clear picture,, instead of taking some scriptures that symbolically make the claim that the wicked live forever?
God says the wages of sin is death!
Either God is a liar or you are mis-interpreting the scripture.
The wages of sin is not eternal life in some flames,,,, the wages of sin is DEATH!!!!
"Sin, when it is finished bringeth forth death."
What part of that dont you get?
God says "the soul that sinneth shall die". he doesn't say, the soul that sinneth lives forever.
Satan, on the other hand teaches this "Ye shall not surely die."
N
The wicked are spiritually dead...they cry out for God but he won't never answer...spirituality dead. all flesh dies because of sin...although jesus was made a curse for human sin is he not still alive? Jesus took our sin which allowed his flesh to die but not his spirit so he lives FOREVER. Our flesh dies but our spirit lives. But I'm not gonna argue you have ur teachings n I got mine and I respect that. I do know the fire won't go out at all...what creates smoke that ascends forever? Fire... which burns forever.
And Malachi 4:3 is out of context...
And Malachi 4:3 is out of context...
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S
And it may well be you that God will deal with. The cunningly devised fables created by Satan about God sending people to an eternal torture chamber are exactly that, lies told by Satan of which you obviously choose to believe. No one here ever suggested that God doesn't punish the wicked. Clearly, being thrown in the final fire which consumes all evil is punishment, not to mention losing an eternity with God. Before throwing out accusations, perhaps you'd better make sure you aren't believing the father of lies. All that's been presented here are scriptures to show what death really involves according to scriptures. Scriptures are the word of God and His message to us. I believe those, and I don't care what any majority of so-called Christian experts teach if what they teach contradicts the word of God.
S
These arguments always circle back around to claims made based on the concept of an immortal soul, which again and again, has been proven to be not only unscriptural, but a belief that calls God Himself a liar when He told Adam that Adam would surely die if he ate from the forbidden tree. Once again, if Adam did not truly die because His soul is supposedly immortal, than God lied to Adam.
"The soul that sins shall DIE." To say the soul does not die is a direct contradiction of this scripture as well. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
I think it's amazing how you throw your accusations at Michael that He is twisting scriptures when you totally ignore these straight forward verses that say the soul that sins shall DIE and that God gave His only begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him SHALL NOT PERISH, a word which mean DIE from any perspective you look at it from.
What part of dead forever do you not get, notconformed2theworld? The word forever there is an English word used to translate from Greek a word that implied duration, as in "as long as life shall last," as in, "the fire is unquenchable."
"The soul that sins shall DIE." To say the soul does not die is a direct contradiction of this scripture as well. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
I think it's amazing how you throw your accusations at Michael that He is twisting scriptures when you totally ignore these straight forward verses that say the soul that sins shall DIE and that God gave His only begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him SHALL NOT PERISH, a word which mean DIE from any perspective you look at it from.
What part of dead forever do you not get, notconformed2theworld? The word forever there is an English word used to translate from Greek a word that implied duration, as in "as long as life shall last," as in, "the fire is unquenchable."
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K
Shiloah, Adam did die and his flesh returned to earth from which it came. But, Shiloah, God breathed inti his nostrils the breath of life. What God creates, never dies. The true meaning of death is separation from God. Many places in the bible, it is called the second death. How can you die twice? first in the flesh and second banished from God's presence. Where the worm does not die.
This is they lie that satan told eve. You surely want die, but become as gods. Adam lived, going from memory around 900 years after the sin. This was not the death God was talking about. He was talking about hell. There is no indication in the bible that Adam repented. If he is there when we get there then praise God. But, I don't expect to see him there.
This is they lie that satan told eve. You surely want die, but become as gods. Adam lived, going from memory around 900 years after the sin. This was not the death God was talking about. He was talking about hell. There is no indication in the bible that Adam repented. If he is there when we get there then praise God. But, I don't expect to see him there.
S
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[TD="width: 66%"] 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:9-10
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.Revelation 20:14
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.Revelation 21:8[/TD]
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We can't have it both ways. There obviously has been a misinterpretation based on the way English translations had to word their translation of the original text. There were no words in English to accurately translate the full meaning of the original text; otherwise, these verses appear to contradict each other. It’s not possible to live forever in torment and also suffer a second death.
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28
There is no returning from the second death. Jesus Himself says we should fear God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell, when the wicked are destroyed.
If the wicked are destroyed, both soul and body, in the lake of fire as Jesus says, they cannot be tormented for ever and ever.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal lifein Christ Jesusour Lord. Romans 6:23 (As in, you do not have eternal life except through Christ).
For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look carefully for his place, But it shall be no more. Psalms 37:10
But the wicked shallperish; Andthe enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. Psalm 37: 9-11, 20.
May sinners be consumedfrom the earth, Andthe wicked be no more.Bless the LORD, O my soul! Praise the LORD!Psalm 104:35.
For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up, Says the LORD of hosts, That will leave them neither root nor branch.
You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this, Says the LORD of hosts.Malachi 4:1-3.
Behold, they shall be as stubble, The fire shall burn them; They shall not deliver themselves From the power of the flame; It shall not be a coal to be warmed by, Nor a fire to sit before! Isaiah 47:14.
The LORD preserves all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.Psalm 145:20.
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Ezekiel 18:4, 20.
For as you drank on my holy mountain, So shall all the nations drink continually; Yes, they shall drink, and swallow, And they shall be as though they had never been. Obadiah 1:15-16.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10.
So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:36-43, 49-50.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.1 John 5:11-12.
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[TD="width: 66%"] 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:9-10
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.Revelation 20:14
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.Revelation 21:8[/TD]
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We can't have it both ways. There obviously has been a misinterpretation based on the way English translations had to word their translation of the original text. There were no words in English to accurately translate the full meaning of the original text; otherwise, these verses appear to contradict each other. It’s not possible to live forever in torment and also suffer a second death.
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28
There is no returning from the second death. Jesus Himself says we should fear God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell, when the wicked are destroyed.
If the wicked are destroyed, both soul and body, in the lake of fire as Jesus says, they cannot be tormented for ever and ever.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal lifein Christ Jesusour Lord. Romans 6:23 (As in, you do not have eternal life except through Christ).
For yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more; Indeed, you will look carefully for his place, But it shall be no more. Psalms 37:10
But the wicked shallperish; Andthe enemies of the LORD, Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish. Into smoke they shall vanish away. Psalm 37: 9-11, 20.
May sinners be consumedfrom the earth, Andthe wicked be no more.Bless the LORD, O my soul! Praise the LORD!Psalm 104:35.
For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up, Says the LORD of hosts, That will leave them neither root nor branch.
You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this, Says the LORD of hosts.Malachi 4:1-3.
Behold, they shall be as stubble, The fire shall burn them; They shall not deliver themselves From the power of the flame; It shall not be a coal to be warmed by, Nor a fire to sit before! Isaiah 47:14.
The LORD preserves all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.Psalm 145:20.
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Ezekiel 18:4, 20.
For as you drank on my holy mountain, So shall all the nations drink continually; Yes, they shall drink, and swallow, And they shall be as though they had never been. Obadiah 1:15-16.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10.
So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:36-43, 49-50.
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.1 John 5:11-12.
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Then all the atheists are right of their claim !! They live and they vanish just like that. Saying all the sinners will be punished for a while then perish like ashes is like not only giving them pardon but eternal rest. Where is the justice of God for this claim? Where is the punishment that they deserve? What's the purpose of being holy when I can do things according to the flesh since I wouldn't be punished forever? There's no point of fearing a punishment that last only in just a while.
I'm sicked and tired of the excuses that God wouldn't do such a thing for the sinners like putting them in a tortured chamber. Who said that God loves to torture? God is Love. Since He is love,He is also pair and just. People went to hell forever because of their disobedience so it's pair enough for that punishment. God doesn't want to see us to be tortured in hell that's why He sent His son Jesus. It's the free will of men that chose to sin and be there in eternal torment.
I'm sicked and tired of the excuses that God wouldn't do such a thing for the sinners like putting them in a tortured chamber. Who said that God loves to torture? God is Love. Since He is love,He is also pair and just. People went to hell forever because of their disobedience so it's pair enough for that punishment. God doesn't want to see us to be tortured in hell that's why He sent His son Jesus. It's the free will of men that chose to sin and be there in eternal torment.
S
Ecclesiastes 3: 18 I also said to myself, “As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.
Genesis 3:19By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
Genesis 3:19By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.”
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K
It's what my bible says. The king james version. I don't know what your reading or trusting. But hell is hot, and there is no escape contrary to catholicism. I know it hard to not believe what you have been taught all your life. But, muslims have accepted him and live their life for Him. I came out of legalism, Because something in me told me it was wrong. Shiloah, you stay on this subject, because it is burning with in you. I will be to first to say that I am not the authority on the subject. I am just relaying to you what I have been taught by the Holy Spirit over many years. I haven't come close or tipped the surface of the word of God. But, this is not my first rodeo.
S
I was taught all my life what you're trying to tell me, Kerry. I found this truth in my latter 20s. You're believing a lie. Everything you claim is based on your opinion. Most of my scriptural quotes were from the King James Version, which makes no difference anyway. You're refusing to address the posted scriptures or the reasoning. You're only giving me your opinion based on what you've been told. I certainly prayed for the guidance of the Holy Spirit when searching out the truth of this issue.
D
All I can say is this:
IF the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, then what is the meaning of that parable?
Those who claim it is a parable point to 3 parables* before the story of Lazarus and claim it should be grouped together with this story.
* 1)Parable of lost sheep.
....2) Parable of the lost coin.
....3) Parable of Prodigal son.
.....(From: Luke 15)
All Parables have a kingdom lesson attached to them. So what is the lesson of the alleged parable of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man? ANyone care to prove this is a parable?
IF the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, then what is the meaning of that parable?
Those who claim it is a parable point to 3 parables* before the story of Lazarus and claim it should be grouped together with this story.
* 1)Parable of lost sheep.
....2) Parable of the lost coin.
....3) Parable of Prodigal son.
.....(From: Luke 15)
All Parables have a kingdom lesson attached to them. So what is the lesson of the alleged parable of Lazarus the beggar and the rich man? ANyone care to prove this is a parable?
K
Okay, Shiloah, remain in the dust. The sadducees had the same belief. Jesus strictly told them of deceit they have believed. Tell my how do you explain the great white throne judgement. How can every person stand before Christ and bow on there knee and confess that He is Lord. How could Jesus say to those who said Lord we have danced for you and he say's to them depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you, where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Explain Luke 16. Jesus spoke of hell or hades in the greek more than He did heaven. It is the word of God. Accept it or don't.