A keeping of a sabbath is left to GOD's people

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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How can it be patently false when I listed actual statements by the early church fathers which proves my point?

The early church worshipped on Sunday and the church has continued to do so to this very day except for a few small aberrant christian cults.
Here are a few statements from "your" church fathers...

“Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday...Now the Church...instituted, by God’s authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday.” Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About, 1927 edition, p. 136.

“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.

“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).

“Question. - How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
“Answer. - By the very act of changing Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.
“Question. - How prove you that?
“Answer. - Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin: and by not keeping the rest by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.” An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, composed by Henry Tuberville, p. 58.

“Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The (Roman Catholic) Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.” John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies, 1936 edition, vol. 1, p. 51.

“Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the (Roman Catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.” John Gilmary Shea, American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.

“The Catholic church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday...The Protestant World at its birth found the Christian Sabbath too strongly entrenched to run counter to its existence; it was therefore placed under the necessity of acquiescing in the arrangement, thus implying the (Catholic) Church’s right to change the day, for over three hundred years. The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day, the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant World.” James Cardinal Gibbons in the Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1983

“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance...The author of the Sunday law...is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.

“The Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.”American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.

“Sunday...is the law of the Catholic Church alone...” American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.

“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.


It is all according to whom you recognize as the authority in this matter, God or the institutions of men.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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yup...i can cover my interpretation of that later.
dunno which thread, but there are a couple.

there`s no future 1,000 year thing.
later
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
 
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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I do. When my boss gives me a deadline for a design, whether it be a pump and piping system or as simple as a structural platform, it is work and my employer expects it done.
The difference here is I do it with a joy, not with a curse, wishing I was on the lake or at a party, or sitting on my tail.
Adam and Eve maintained the garden with Joy before the eating of that tree of evil, that Christ condemned at the cross
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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could you show me the passages for all that?:)
where do we have glorified saints co-existing with flesh people?
well, will there be an actual literal Temple from which Jesus rules?
apparently people are going to Jerusalem...is there a 3rd temple (temporary)?

because there's no temple in the New heaven New Earth.
Because the Temple is here for 1000 years as Ezekiel 40 through 48 shows. The New Heavens and New Earth occur after the 1000 years, after teh GWTJ and after the Lake of Fire burns and purifies the earth.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Sir,, I keep the 10 Commandments and the faith of Jesus. If you desire to complicate it for yourself,, go right ahead. But for me,, keeping Gods 10 Commandments is a delight.
So you are never angry, never lusted after a woman, or other, never wanted anything your own way, you are not selfish to this very day ever?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Well...my sabbath day is sunday hahahah. choosing specific day in worshiping God is not big issue. People are so concerned about days when you can worship the Lord at all times. Everyday is joy for me in the Holy Ghost. It's all about Intimacy and relationship with the Lord that matters.

God bless everyone......
No, Sunday is not and cannot be the Sabbath. You may choose whatever you wish to and worship God however you wish...

Deu 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise.
Deu 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

After all, Nadab and Abihu chose their own methods...

Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
Lev 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

So does it really matter?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Dan,, if you believe that the church of Rome didn't change Gods Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st.. Then,, you are ignorant. It's documented that they did so... For you to argue that they didn't is downright stupid on your behalf!
Well Michael there is one de-railing quote and is selfish and arrogant do you think, your quote to Dan, and you are claiming to keep the law perfectly?
Just showing your post as in how you posted with anger in it.
All in Love from God to you, the amazing Mercy of God
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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So you are never angry, never lusted after a woman, or other, never wanted anything your own way, you are not selfish to this very day ever?
I do, and so do you. The point is that we should strive to obey and build the character necessary to stop doing these things but when we stumble and fail we have...

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This great High Priest doesn't say "Oh well, I know you cannot obey so do whatever and I will forgive you", He says...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The word "be" here is...

G2071
ἔσομαι
esomai
es'-om-ahee
Future tense of G1510; will be: - shall (should) be (have), (shall) come (to pass), X may have, X fall, what would follow, X live long, X sojourn.

Future tense and it means to become. The word for perfect is...

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

To become mature, complete in moral character by doing this...

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Dan,,you have been told that the Mark of the Beast will be enforced. Dan,, you know what I believe the Mark of the Beast to be (sunday observance enforced).

Tell me,,, if, during your lifetime,, you see a huge movement by the religious in the United States to legislate a new law that would enforce Sunday observance..Are you going to embrace it and support it? After all the warnings that you have heard reguarding the Sabbath of God,, would you still embrace and support a National Sunday Law?

This question is to everybody,, not just Dan.
I support no man made traditions, and am in the Sabbath rest every day with God in heaven, worshipping in the Spirit of God, now I can only accomplish this through belief in God's finished work through the cross daily, by daily being co-crucified to me and the world co-crucified as in dead at the cross of Christ in his death, has become my death to self.
Thus God daily raises me to the new life in the Spirit of God and places me in Spirit with God at God's Tabernacle that God pitched bot man. Then put back here on earth as an ambassador only representing, the Love, peace, Joy and righteousness in the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit that God has sealed me with

All the Law all of it is contained in God's love best described 1 cor. 13:4-13
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Exactly, if I observe it Sunday then that's between me and the Lord
Free choice, to all, whether they worship, whether they believe, whether, whether, whether or not.
Love you all to you all's freedom in the Mercy of God
Praying for you all's stress in this mess to be subsided by God through the resurrected Christ
 
May 24, 2013
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I support no man made traditions, and am in the Sabbath rest every day with God in heaven, worshipping in the Spirit of God, now I can only accomplish this through belief in God's finished work through the cross daily, by daily being co-crucified to me and the world co-crucified as in dead at the cross of Christ in his death, has become my death to self.
Thus God daily raises me to the new life in the Spirit of God and places me in Spirit with God at God's Tabernacle that God pitched bot man. Then put back here on earth as an ambassador only representing, the Love, peace, Joy and righteousness in the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit that God has sealed me with

All the Law all of it is contained in God's love best described 1 cor. 13:4-13
Homward,, why reply if you knew you werent going to answer the question?


The Sabbath is the 7th day. Nowhere in scripture did God say the Sabbath is everyday... For you to make such a claim,, is to be in error.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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What? You call that absurd???

You are putting too mild. It is pure fiction, unscriptural, bizarre, brainless, demented, unscriptural, fruit-cake-ian, eccentric and shear lunacy.
And where id the Love of God at here? HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we are freed by God's love to treat each other with passion. God's love not flesh love, that is selfish is this true or false? Free choice I said what needed to be said
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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Either John or Michael posted something very much to the point. The day people worship may be any day of the week, but the Seventh Day cannot change.

I would venture 99% of the people who claim to believe are not aware that there is one Sabbath of Yahweh while there can be many days called a sabbath for moveable feasts and the like. The word Sabbath has more than one meaning, and the day has more than one designation on the calendar, except, of course, the Seventh Day Sabbath, this cannot change, not by man anyway.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I have always wondered what the Lord meant when he taught his disciples to pray, 'Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven'. Has the kingdom come already and God's will is being done on earth as it is in heaven? Will the kingdom come when Christ comes back or will the kingdom come when God creates a new heaven and earth? When will the perfect will of God really be done on earth as it is being done in heaven as righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit? If Jesus demonstrated the coming of the kingdom of God when he was here, what can we learn about the kingdom through his life and the things that he did that always pleased the Father?
The will, the kingdom, the peace, the joy, the righteousness is found in the resurrection of Christ in the Spirit of God, for us here today to receive this.
yet one must first come to the end of the energy of their own self, before seeing the resurrected life.
Ask to be co-crucified with Christ back at the cross at the death to SELF and the world
Galatians 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

And then one is at rest while he still works, except it is no longer him that works it is God that does this through the one that believes and is in the Sabbath rest every day, 24/7 whether they realize this or not, God is Faithful and God has given us a gift of life provided to us through the cross of Christ, in the resurrected Christ it is proven to be true
 
May 24, 2013
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The will, the kingdom, the peace, the joy, the righteousness is found in the resurrection of Christ in the Spirit of God, for us here today to receive this.
yet one must first come to the end of the energy of their own self, before seeing the resurrected life.
Ask to be co-crucified with Christ back at the cross at the death to SELF and the world
Galatians 6:14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

And then one is at rest while he still works, except it is no longer him that works it is God that does this through the one that believes and is in the Sabbath rest every day, 24/7 whether they realize this or not, God is Faithful and God has given us a gift of life provided to us through the cross of Christ, in the resurrected Christ it is proven to be true
You make void Gods Law with your words...


The Sabbath is the 7th day.. Why do you make the false claim that it is everyday???? God blessed and sactified the 7th day. Not everyday!

Homward,, you are making stuff up and claiming it to be a fact.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I do, and so do you. The point is that we should strive to obey and build the character necessary to stop doing these things but when we stumble and fail we have...

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This great High Priest doesn't say "Oh well, I know you cannot obey so do whatever and I will forgive you", He says...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The word "be" here is...

G2071
ἔσομαι
esomai
es'-om-ahee
Future tense of G1510; will be: - shall (should) be (have), (shall) come (to pass), X may have, X fall, what would follow, X live long, X sojourn.

Future tense and it means to become. The word for perfect is...

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

To become mature, complete in moral character by doing this...

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
So how is this done by Faith in God's finished work where by Christ's death, we are presented to god as Holy and then God when we believe gives us new life in God, where we are to daily be dead to self to be alive to God and possibly not sin again, yet can only be done daily as in dying to self daily with Christ, so that daily God views us as Holy in the new life he gave us, at no works of our own, just believe and rest in God's Sabbath rest?

It surely is not cone my any man works, flesh works, since we are in unredeemed flesh, so the only possible solution is to
[h=3]Romans 6:11[/h]New International Version (NIV)


[SUP]11 [/SUP]In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.


[h=3]Colossians 1:22-23[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— [SUP]23 [/SUP]if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

Just imagine this to be at rest while you work? HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God's Sabbath rest
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Homward,, why reply if you knew you werent going to answer the question?


The Sabbath is the 7th day. Nowhere in scripture did God say the Sabbath is everyday... For you to make such a claim,, is to be in error.
Hebrews 3 and 4 talk very clearly to me about this rest in God, that the Israelites in the days of provocation never entered. because of unbelief. You are talking about a physical rest one day a week, where God is talking about a Spiritual rest for all time.
The Israelites saw all the miracles and still would not put their complete trust in God (Christ). Man just has to do things his way and claim it to be God's
What is more important Spirit of God or flesh?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,475
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Either John or Michael posted something very much to the point. The day people worship may be any day of the week, but the Seventh Day cannot change.

I would venture 99% of the people who claim to believe are not aware that there is one Sabbath of Yahweh while there can be many days called a sabbath for moveable feasts and the like. The word Sabbath has more than one meaning, and the day has more than one designation on the calendar, except, of course, the Seventh Day Sabbath, this cannot change, not by man anyway.
That is because God rested on the seventh day after he created all here. That has nothing to do with Man resting or anything except to thank God for God's great Mercy shown completed through the cross
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,282
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Because our Father worked six days, He gave the commandment for man to rest from his days of work, six days, with God. He asks us to mark the seventh day and to keep it separate (holy.) There are many sabbaths, but there is only one Seventh Day Sabbath commanded. Again, it is a gift to men from the Father.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,475
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You make void Gods Law with your words...


The Sabbath is the 7th day.. Why do you make the false claim that it is everyday???? God blessed and sactified the 7th day. Not everyday!

Homward,, you are making stuff up and claiming it to be a fact.
I just know what I know from God and if you are in the new life in the Spirit of God as God has done this for all that believe given us a new life not of flesh rather of Spirit his Spirit, then you would see this truth,
The war still to this day is flesh against the Spirit of God. this flesh is still masquerading as being good and perverting the full Gospel of Christ that is completed in Christ fro freedom to Love as God does, showing Mercy to all, and all that is left is for us to see it and give it to all as God has done through the cross
Love you Michael50, love you deeper than you may know. I am at peace, and you say you are too great, I am elated for you, because this is how God loves us, and brought peace to us not the world but to us each as individuals.
So I am not saying to you do this or don't do that, you are free to choose as I am and all are