DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?
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A most foolish statement on your behalf. You take up the same arguments that satan used when convincing Angels to rebel with him.
Was Lucifer and every Angel that God had Created Sinless? They most certainly were!!!!
And here you sit and claim they had no need of God?
That is the same argument that satan presented before the sinless Angels that sided with him and were kicked out of Heaven:
What need have we of God? We are holy and able to set our own courses. God is only keeping us from reaching our full potential......That was one of Satan suggestions to the other angels.
Angels are immortal as long as they are obedient to God. As would have been Adam & Eve,, but,, they disobeyed. Sqandering the promise of God to live forever.
Was Lucifer and every Angel that God had Created Sinless? They most certainly were!!!!
And here you sit and claim they had no need of God?
That is the same argument that satan presented before the sinless Angels that sided with him and were kicked out of Heaven:
What need have we of God? We are holy and able to set our own courses. God is only keeping us from reaching our full potential......That was one of Satan suggestions to the other angels.
Angels are immortal as long as they are obedient to God. As would have been Adam & Eve,, but,, they disobeyed. Sqandering the promise of God to live forever.
I don't think there is a formula given for how the Holy Spirit is given. Except having faith to come to Christ and know that He is and is a rewarder of those that come to Him.
For me, reading the bible was like learning God's language. Even though it was written in English I didn't understand a lot of it the first few times I read it.
And then I started praying. This unlocked everything, for me. I asked the Lord for so much. Much of which I didn't even understand what I was asking for or how anything worked. I didn't even really understand the answers I was receiving, I was so ignorant and without understanding. But He gives us exceedingly, abundantly more than we can ask or think.
That's kind of vague. Do you reject animal sacrifice? Do you build a tent and sit on your mercy seat? If you don't deny the physical aspects of the OT can you say the Spirit leads you?
Now if you mean that there is a spiritual aspect to the Old Testament that can only be seen by the Wisdom and Knowledge that the Lord Jesus gives us, I would agree with that.
The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. The Law of Liberty.
Can we have comfort that we are saved without a complete knowledge of what this Law of Liberty is? Yes. We are saved and given comfort before we understand. The Holy Spirit is who teaches us and shows us what it all means and how to walk.
What are you saying that the Law of Liberty is? Maybe we are talking about two different things...
For me, reading the bible was like learning God's language. Even though it was written in English I didn't understand a lot of it the first few times I read it.
And then I started praying. This unlocked everything, for me. I asked the Lord for so much. Much of which I didn't even understand what I was asking for or how anything worked. I didn't even really understand the answers I was receiving, I was so ignorant and without understanding. But He gives us exceedingly, abundantly more than we can ask or think.
That's kind of vague. Do you reject animal sacrifice? Do you build a tent and sit on your mercy seat? If you don't deny the physical aspects of the OT can you say the Spirit leads you?
Now if you mean that there is a spiritual aspect to the Old Testament that can only be seen by the Wisdom and Knowledge that the Lord Jesus gives us, I would agree with that.
The Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. The Law of Liberty.
Can we have comfort that we are saved without a complete knowledge of what this Law of Liberty is? Yes. We are saved and given comfort before we understand. The Holy Spirit is who teaches us and shows us what it all means and how to walk.
What are you saying that the Law of Liberty is? Maybe we are talking about two different things...
Up until now I have agreed and basically defended the things that you have endorsed even on other threads. This comment of yours (unless I have misunderstood) makes me question how you think salvation really works. Being born again, to me, means being given a brand new life outside of the previous life of corruption. The following verse clearly indicates a present state, not a situation that will come in the future.
1 Peter 1:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
I'm certainly not against searching the scriptures of the Mosaic law. I know that you observe the law with great sincerity. Maybe it is terminology, but one who is not born again doesn't have the indwelling Spirit. I think you do, so I would say being born again is a prerequisite to the receiving of the Holy Spirit. If you do not confess that you have the Holy Spirit, then I would say that you also cannot claim that the temple made by the hands of men has been changed to the temple that God has made from those who believe in Him by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Then one would also have to say that their human nature takes precedence over the will of our Father in heaven.
I do hope that you can see the logic that I endorse to all that read this.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I believe that being born again is the beginning of a brand new life called salvation through Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
1 Peter 1:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
I'm certainly not against searching the scriptures of the Mosaic law. I know that you observe the law with great sincerity. Maybe it is terminology, but one who is not born again doesn't have the indwelling Spirit. I think you do, so I would say being born again is a prerequisite to the receiving of the Holy Spirit. If you do not confess that you have the Holy Spirit, then I would say that you also cannot claim that the temple made by the hands of men has been changed to the temple that God has made from those who believe in Him by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Then one would also have to say that their human nature takes precedence over the will of our Father in heaven.
I do hope that you can see the logic that I endorse to all that read this.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I believe that being born again is the beginning of a brand new life called salvation through Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 6:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
[SUP]2 [/SUP](For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
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So you’re saying regeneration does not occur until the resurrection? Wow. Never heard of that one before!
How do you reconcile that with these verses:
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. "Hath" suggests presently having everlasting life rather than a future occurrence.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. "He saved us" suggests something that has already happened, not a future occurrence. So one is born again the moment they repent and believe the Lord Jesus.
How do you reconcile that with these verses:
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. "Hath" suggests presently having everlasting life rather than a future occurrence.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. "He saved us" suggests something that has already happened, not a future occurrence. So one is born again the moment they repent and believe the Lord Jesus.
E
. Ad hominem, faulty argument which does not speak to the question being spoken of.
Did Angels who had not sin need a savior? No
Did they need grace? No
Did they need mercy? Mo
Did they need to grow in mercy and grace? No
Did they need to rely on a savior who would fulfill his promise to them? No
Try listening to what is being said before you make remarks which do not speak to the topic in question.
Did Angels who had not sin need a savior? No
Did they need grace? No
Did they need mercy? Mo
Did they need to grow in mercy and grace? No
Did they need to rely on a savior who would fulfill his promise to them? No
Try listening to what is being said before you make remarks which do not speak to the topic in question.
B
[h=2]
DOES HUMAN NATURE VANISH AS SOON AS WE ARE BORN AGAIN?[/h] (YOU WRITE)
Revelation 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Couldn’t get to sleep last night, so I went outside to pray. What was haunting me was that I felt deep inside that the love I had for our Savior was lacking. Knowing that I was confronted with something that I couldn’t accomplish by myself, and questioned God why, and then dropped it, because I already knew. I have prayed many times for help in certain areas of my life, knowing that what I was lacking could never be accomplished by anything that was of myself.
I woke up this morning, after praying, with this song on my mind. Over and over I was singing it to myself, and then I started to understand what God was saying to me.
Nothing But the Blood
(BECKON;s Response)
Is it not parable said; The life is in the blood? If so then the blood (nature & character) Jesus lived & taught is the only way home, there is but the one door/way home & that is in totally trust from Genesis 1:26 through 1:27 back to 1:26...
Revelation 7:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Couldn’t get to sleep last night, so I went outside to pray. What was haunting me was that I felt deep inside that the love I had for our Savior was lacking. Knowing that I was confronted with something that I couldn’t accomplish by myself, and questioned God why, and then dropped it, because I already knew. I have prayed many times for help in certain areas of my life, knowing that what I was lacking could never be accomplished by anything that was of myself.
I woke up this morning, after praying, with this song on my mind. Over and over I was singing it to myself, and then I started to understand what God was saying to me.
Nothing But the Blood
(BECKON;s Response)
Is it not parable said; The life is in the blood? If so then the blood (nature & character) Jesus lived & taught is the only way home, there is but the one door/way home & that is in totally trust from Genesis 1:26 through 1:27 back to 1:26...
I think there is. I use the formula God has given because I use the Mosaic Law do identify human nature so I can repent and die daily.
Same here. And the answer I got was to go BACK to the Mosaic Law that I used to be under, and find out the gravity of what salvation really meant. The Law showed me that all previous temple worship was finalized through our Lord Jesus Christ. The precedence has always been the same, but what is brand new is that Christ took three things from the past and carried them to the cross (brazen altar) and completed it all. One thing is that He is the High Priest that will never die. The second thing is that He was the final sacrifice because He lives, and third, we come to God through Christ Jesus the high Priest to offer ourselves as a living sacrifice, acceptable in the sight of God.
So now you see by my previous explanations that the questions you pose to me are vain. Even if I were a non-believing Jew, I still wouldn't sit on God's mercy seat. That's His chair and always has been. I say that with a smile.
You've got it!!! Ya! Praise God for that!
Looking in the mirror of the schoolmaster and identifying yourself as God sees you is the beginning of the law of liberty. It's called the Old Testament combined with the New Testament showing a completion in Christ, and His work in us, past, present, and future. Keep in mind all that read this. James, and all the writers of the New Testament, as we call it, was inspired by God, and they had the Old Testament writings to present the New Testament as the completed works of God. If a person looks at the truth of the matter, the New Testament didn't take effect until Jesus died, so the teachings of Christ Jesus were still under the old covenant.
James 1:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Hebrews 9:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Same here. And the answer I got was to go BACK to the Mosaic Law that I used to be under, and find out the gravity of what salvation really meant. The Law showed me that all previous temple worship was finalized through our Lord Jesus Christ. The precedence has always been the same, but what is brand new is that Christ took three things from the past and carried them to the cross (brazen altar) and completed it all. One thing is that He is the High Priest that will never die. The second thing is that He was the final sacrifice because He lives, and third, we come to God through Christ Jesus the high Priest to offer ourselves as a living sacrifice, acceptable in the sight of God.
So now you see by my previous explanations that the questions you pose to me are vain. Even if I were a non-believing Jew, I still wouldn't sit on God's mercy seat. That's His chair and always has been. I say that with a smile.
You've got it!!! Ya! Praise God for that!
Looking in the mirror of the schoolmaster and identifying yourself as God sees you is the beginning of the law of liberty. It's called the Old Testament combined with the New Testament showing a completion in Christ, and His work in us, past, present, and future. Keep in mind all that read this. James, and all the writers of the New Testament, as we call it, was inspired by God, and they had the Old Testament writings to present the New Testament as the completed works of God. If a person looks at the truth of the matter, the New Testament didn't take effect until Jesus died, so the teachings of Christ Jesus were still under the old covenant.
James 1:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Hebrews 9:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
E
I go to God and thank him for his forgiveness. Then I ask him to help me be better prepaired next time so that I may have victory over the temptation. and learn from my mistake.
why should I ask for what I already have received? If I do this, I disagree with God and place myself under law, not under grace.
why should I ask for what I already have received? If I do this, I disagree with God and place myself under law, not under grace.
To all here: I refuse to take sides with or against anyone!
2 Timothy 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
When there are disputes and arguments about what Almighty God has inspired, then were just dividing the Word of Truth instead of obeying these verses. If all we want to do is get our viewpoint across, then you are prohibiting yourself from being properly edified by the Spirit of God. Then it is obvious that the human nature prevails.
2 Timothy 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
When there are disputes and arguments about what Almighty God has inspired, then were just dividing the Word of Truth instead of obeying these verses. If all we want to do is get our viewpoint across, then you are prohibiting yourself from being properly edified by the Spirit of God. Then it is obvious that the human nature prevails.
E
when we are in disputes about things not related to eternal life, I agree 100 %
however, when we are in disputes about how someone is saved, then I must disagree. allowing someone to continue to believe in a gospel which will lead them, and those who follow them, to hell is not loving them, it is feeding into their soon to be seen doom if they do not repent.
however, when we are in disputes about how someone is saved, then I must disagree. allowing someone to continue to believe in a gospel which will lead them, and those who follow them, to hell is not loving them, it is feeding into their soon to be seen doom if they do not repent.
S
Well, I suppose so. lol. Or something even worse than our fallen human nature. As for human nature, surely there's our fallen human nature as well as the seed planted within us by Christ which we're to feed so it will grow and eventually choke out the fallen one?
I was told that in church when I was a child. I was told we have a fallen nature and a spiritual nature within us. We have to feed the spiritual with prayer and studying the scriptures so that it will grow. We obviously want to starve out that fallen nature within us, though that obviously isn't as easy as it sounds. That thing just doesn't wanna die. lol.
I was told that in church when I was a child. I was told we have a fallen nature and a spiritual nature within us. We have to feed the spiritual with prayer and studying the scriptures so that it will grow. We obviously want to starve out that fallen nature within us, though that obviously isn't as easy as it sounds. That thing just doesn't wanna die. lol.
You said: "We would no longer need God period."
I realize it is hard for you to face your own error. You said it. You don't have to admit it,, but you said it. And you are as wrong as you can be.
Here is somthing, that I believe the Lord wants me to relate to you:
Many who teach that the law of God is not binding upon man urge that it is impossible for him to obey it's precepts. But, if this were true, why did Adam suffer the penalty of Transgression? The sin of our first parents brought guilt and sorrow upon the world, and had it not been for the goodness and mercy of God, would have plunged the race into hopeless despair. Let none decieve themselves. "The wages of sin is death." The law of God can no more be transgressed with impunity now than when sentence was pronounced upon the father of mankind.
I realize it is hard for you to face your own error. You said it. You don't have to admit it,, but you said it. And you are as wrong as you can be.
Here is somthing, that I believe the Lord wants me to relate to you:
Many who teach that the law of God is not binding upon man urge that it is impossible for him to obey it's precepts. But, if this were true, why did Adam suffer the penalty of Transgression? The sin of our first parents brought guilt and sorrow upon the world, and had it not been for the goodness and mercy of God, would have plunged the race into hopeless despair. Let none decieve themselves. "The wages of sin is death." The law of God can no more be transgressed with impunity now than when sentence was pronounced upon the father of mankind.
E
we are. but some people in here claim to believe it, but do not teach it. they are headed in a wrong direction. Unless something is done, they will be those who stand before christ proclaiming all the works in his name, and he will say depart, for he never knew them.
non of us want anyone to go through this do we?
E
well. That is not from God. it is from some other father which wants you to think this.
the law was given to prove we need God., because we can not fulfill its precepts. It continues to condemn us, unless we somehow think our sin is not worthy of condemnation, or we are sinless. in which case we are deceived ourselves.
the law was given to prove we need God., because we can not fulfill its precepts. It continues to condemn us, unless we somehow think our sin is not worthy of condemnation, or we are sinless. in which case we are deceived ourselves.