To Be Born Again Is To Be Resurrected!

starfield · Aug 15, 2013

The entire context of John 3 is salvation wherein one is renewed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. It baffles me how you and your buddies would insert the future resurrection into that passage.

What does it mean to be born of the Spirit? Let's examine other passages for scripture interprets scripture:
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And...
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Notice that Paul alluded to the same thing (born of the Spirit/the new birth). By faith the Spirit of God imparts life to the spiritually dead whereby they are set free from sin and enabled to walk in newness of life. To be born again means one has responded to the gospel of salvation, and is a partaker of the divine nature of Christ. If that happens at the resurrection then no one is currently saved. No one has eternal life right now, no one is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise instead we are all still dead in sin!

In verse 8, Jesus compared the new birth (regeneration) by the Spirit of God to the wind. It is mysterious and unseen yet a gracious work of God.

I wrote this: "And salvation is a present possession...
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

To which you responded with this and quoted 1 Cor 15:50-54:

Therefore I assume you are claiming that no one is saved until the resurrection?

Of course I am still flesh and blood. This corruptible body of mine have not been done away with, but spiritually speaking I am not flesh in that I am no longer walking after the flesh but in accordance with the Spirit of God by His grace.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Are you after the flesh or the Spirit?

12tribes1King · Aug 15, 2013

GOI said:

Mental or physical? It is spiritual, as we that have recieved the "free gift of God" (His "holy Spirit"), are "born again". The mind and body, (mental and physical) are also transformed by this but it is of a spiritual nature. This is what Peter means when he says "being "born again" of a incorruptible seed". All men who have been anointed with the holy Spirit will live forever and be with Christ when he redeems us, but those who have went to sleep (the world says died, "for all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:"), with this anointing of the holy Spirit, will live again. Praise be to God our Father and Yahoshua (Jesus) Christ forever for this friend!

In 1Peter1-25, Peter is addressing the "Elect" of God who have received the promise of the holy Spirit "the Comforter" mentioned here by Yahoshua (Jesus) Christ;
1 John 14:
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

And Yahoshua (Jesus) Christ teaches us about being "born again" (mentioned in 1 Peter1:23) and receiving the "Comforter" or holy Spirit here with Nicodemus,:

John 3:
1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Now look at 1Peter 1 again now:
1Peter1

eter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[SUP]4 [/SUP]To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

[SUP]19 [/SUP]But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

hopefully it makes a lot more since to you now: GOI

Wall · Aug 15, 2013

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN OF WATER AND OF THE SPIRIT, HE CANNOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[6] That which is BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; and that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.

Jesus tells Nic you must be born again to enter the kingdom. Verse 6 explains that which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the spirit is spirit.

1COR.15
[42] So also is THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] AND AS WE HAVE BORNE THE IMAGE OF THE EARTHY, WE SHALL ALSO BEAR THE IMAGE OF THE HEAVENLY.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Cor.15 is talking about the resurrection. Verse 42 states that rather clearly. In verse 50 you see the same thing Jesus told Nic. You cannot inherit the kingdom of God....still speaking of the resurrection. Just read John 3{6} and 1Cor.15{44}. Just read John3{6} and 1Cor.15{49}. If you believe these scriptures to be true there can be no doubt about the “born again” event.

brmicke · Aug 15, 2013

Hi Wall - I am not sure what you think. Do you understand that 1 Cor 15 speaks of the physical body being inspirited as Jesus had when He was on earth?

If so this is what I think as well.

brmicke · Aug 15, 2013

Hi Hal - I have an idea about the so called rapture that you may not have heard. Here is the link. There is also a longer article with scriptural proofs at the same linked site.

http://brmicke.yolasite.com/rapture-parable-explanation.php

Brian

JaumeJ · Aug 16, 2013

Rapture is only a word. It describes when the Lord returns, and first those who are in the dust and in the deeps of the seas will be raised up to meet Him followed by we who are alive. If anyone puts more than this event on the word, it is an unecessary elaboration, perhaps an untrue elaboration in which case it is wrong.

Make the word what you will, it does describe the event, nothing so-called about it. In the faith, it is real, though yet unseen.

homwardbound · Aug 16, 2013

john832 said:

So am I to take what you are saying is that you are not born of the Spirit of God:
is the following not true as what Christ said is true
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

homwardbound · Aug 16, 2013

john832 said:

Sorry not if you are of the flesh

homwardbound · Aug 16, 2013

john832 said:

If you believe God, then you will deny self and allow God to work you over, no one else can ever reveal God's Love to you except God, leaves you with one choice to either believe God, Christ's Father or not
If denying wrongs were ever only out side of the self, then it would not be hard to obey the Law.
But it is in the insidious self of each and every person born here on earth in the flesh and law even though it is perfect, can't be obeyed perfectly of the flesh self, since all sin is:
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Sorry you refused to see this amazing gift to you from God and insist on obeying the Law as if flesh can.
Love you deeper than you know

SpiritofFire · Aug 16, 2013

I've seen the kingdom of God. I am of the first resurrection.

Wall · Aug 16, 2013

SpiritofFire said:

Uhhh..whats it look like?

SpiritofFire · Aug 16, 2013

Wall said:

If the kingdom is within us, then look around at what you see.

Hoffco · Aug 16, 2013

I must say, yes, the present form of God's kingdom is a spiritual rule of Christ in our hearts, now, there is no perfection of my spiritual life now in this body.of sin. I am still a Rom.7, dual nature man, struggling to control my sinful, old nature, my new nature does a good job, ( as in Rom. 8) but it is not total victory, I can never be perfect in this old body of sin.
So, yes, the present form of Christ Kingdom in "within" us, spiritual and not physical, but our body is involves in this battle. And, as I look within ,it is a mess. Very imperfect, I do love God's "law", it is my guide for life,(the whole Bible is God's law and is my guide.) I am an "overcomer" I walk "blamelessly", ( as did Zacharias and Elizabeth, Lk.1:6), every day with Christ who gives me the power each day, and I will be rewarded with the authority and power, to rule in Christ's coming physical kingdom on this earth, which Jesus called the "Regeneration" Mt.19:28. I think a lot of you confuse the Present K.of GOD,"within" with the future K. of GOD(Christ) on this earth, for 1,000 yrs. "Your Kingdom come" to me ,is the physical K. of Christ upon this earth ,yet to come. You confuse the "first resurrection "with the new birth. You confuse the future "eternal life", with our present "eternal life" which is only spiritual. In John 3:6, Jesus states a "half truth" which is not totally truth acc, to Jesus Himself and all of Scripture. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh , and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Think about this, for a moment, obviously ,we have a spirit/soul from our mothers womb. and after we are born of the Spirit, we ,obviously still have a body of flesh. What Jesus is sayings: we were sinful, now we are spiritual. as Paul said in 1 cor.3:1,"And I brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, (flesh) as to babes in Christ." "selah"= think about these things. Love to all, Hoffco

Wall · Aug 16, 2013

SpiritofFire said:

I think the key word there is "within". Its not around for us to look at quite yet

Sanashankar · Aug 17, 2013

GOI said:

There is but one word in the Greek manuscripts to represent "begotten," and "born." Numerous Scriptures tell us that we are given in this life, only the ernest or downpayment of God's Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13-14).

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Furthermore, Jesus told Necodemus that when one IS ACTUALLY "born again" he is like the wind (John 3:3-8).

Jn 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Christians are not powerful and invisible as the wind is, in this life. From these two truths, we can establish that we are "begotten" of God's Spirit in this life, but we will not be "BORN of God's Spirit" until the resurrection to immortality (I Cor. 15:42-54).

homwardbound · Aug 17, 2013

SpiritofFire said:

I see truth in what Christ said to Peter
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

homwardbound · Aug 17, 2013

Hoffco said:

So could this be why we are to be co-crucified with Chrsit at the cross of in his death, being our death to flesh, so that we no longer war between flesh and Spirit, being dead to self. are we not alive to Christ. Does not Romans 6 state this as fact or do we not know this
[h=3]Romans 6:3-4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Is this not to be a daily happening to die to flesh and be alive to God by the resurrected Christ.
Read it all rom. 6 carefully from verse one. How is it any other way to forsake our unredeemed flesh except to be dead to it?

homwardbound · Aug 17, 2013

Sanashankar said:

And therefore one stays alive to sin, being controlled by flesh nature as Paul so well described in 1 Cor. 3 to the Corinthians
The resurrected Christ in the Spirit is the power complete in the full Gospel
We are by Christ made
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

It all resides on whether one believes God or not

JaumeJ · Aug 17, 2013

Always remembering what you have posted here, we know sin finds its power in the law! But grace makes our sin null and void, the guilt of it is not held against any in Yeshua. If sin is still active after grace, and it is, it stands to reason following the Ten Commandments is very good. When we falter, we have grace. Blessed be the cleansing Blood of Yeshua, amen.

homwardbound said:

homwardbound · Aug 18, 2013

JaumeJ said:

What you posted is nothing more than one falling to flesh desire and then going back to grace as an excuse to get away with sin(s), and is not presented this way to us. We are thus riding the fence, and not finalizing the cross where we are made Holy and acceptable to God through Christ our Savior. Col 1:21-23
The doorway unto new life in the Spirit of God is through the death of Christ first and foremost, this is the death to self, by one's self will in asking God to co-crucify self to Christ's death, so that one might gain access to the new life in Christ.
Phil 3 is clear on this about putting no confidence in flesh self at all. That through the death one might see the resurrected Christ. As long as one tries to stop sin, being focused there is why they continue to do sin. And if one stops sin there in self then there is reason to boast, but not before God. It is by Faith and Faith alone in God's finished work at the cross where new life is received in the resurrection. And is for us all, if we are willing to die to self as well with Christ at the death, then we move onto the resurrection, from God to us here and now today in the Holy Spirit of God
The Ten commandments are there for us to know we need God period and when one is finally in God dead to self and alive to God in the Spirit of God through the resurrected Christ, the Ten commandments have then done there job in bringing us to the only one righteous and that is Father of Christ through Christ. No other way. in the new life we are under new laws, the laws of God's type of Love best described in 1 Cor.13:4-13. We now have a new priesthood that lives forever in the order of Melchizadek, not in the order of Aaron. Jesus was not even from the Levite tribe, Christ came from the tribe of Judah, where no priest was mentioned and is what fooled the Devil.
God bottom line just love us all and died for us all to present us all Holy to him if we will believe God, that simple and then we receive the Love of God spread abroad in our new heart transplant that God did for us that believe by the resurrected Christ

Please see:
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Let us make up our minds either we are of flesh corruption even when it looks good, we are what we are. Or we are of the Spirit of God born again here and now by God.
Is this not what Christ came to do, did Christ not say this was to be so?
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

How is this done before the cross or after in the resurrection or not? Either one believes God or not?

To Be Born Again Is To Be Resurrected!

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