Re: "Women keep silent in the churches": Has that ceased or is it still for today?
If we all will just learn to consider our neighbor as God considered us in Love through Son Christ, we would thus have order; not in commandment, but in Mercy for each other, loving as God Loves found in 1 Cor. 13:4-13 in the born again Spirit, I see no male, female, Jew Greek and or Gentile in God' Spirit, or my Spirit born of God. Yet, In the Flesh I do and many problems curtail in that way of viewing things and flesh has to have Law to at least try to obey, but can't not perfectly as in the Spirit does
This is what I'm saying too, the Lord leads me, I hope and pray, and, if no one wants to even comment on my past posts, fine, I am fine with that, I don't always piece my words together coherently, let alone, eloquently, that's just He in me leading, that I hope and pray , too
But, this is it to me !! homewardgoing says it well, nothing minced in His words !
We are to be IN the Spirit. Our flesh wants to tell us one thing, our Spirit another. There is a war going on inside us.
And, again, I reitierate my past posts' verses of NO confusion: Isaiah 55:8 and 1 Corinthians 2 passage at end of God's thoughts we can NOT know. Both say the same thing, Old Testament and New.
I do NOT believe ideally that women should preach, and, bookenders, says it how I say things, too, LOL, we don't agree on a lot of things of doctrine, but we do this, kind of. But, nah, I won't post his quote because you can go read it yourself, I guess, you got two legs and you got two eyes too
But, yes, 1 Cor. 14: 34-35 passage DOES say women should be silent in the church but it NOWHERE says that women can NOT preach.
It says women are to be silent and ask Q's at home to their husbands in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 . you read any more than that out of that passage there and you ain't reading the same bible I'm reading. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with women being able to be a pastor, it's strictly about husbands and wives. Based on this verse, you are NUTS to think they can't be pastor. You don't even need my Isaiah 55 verse nor 1 Cor. 2 verse to back it up ,LOL. But, yeah, then we get to 1 Tim. 2:12 and things change some. 1 Tim. 2:12 uses like words of 1 Cor. 14:34-34 , submission, be quiet, but, it, too, does not speak JUST to husbands and wives. It speaks to all women and 'Adam and Eve' refer to ORDER.
Ahhh, yes, the con-women pastor crowd just starting to finally love me now, LOL, don't get your hopes up, fair warning
Notice I said 'change some' in the paragraph two graphs above?
Here's where many think we are speaking of women not allowed to pastor or teach Sunday School over a man, EVER. YOU who believe this, don't mean "some times, women can teach in Sunday School over men" either YOU mean, NEVER , right , men ? Sure, you do. Sometimes, I wonder, if you had some gal teach a class and run off with your husband, so, you're bitter about this subject. Whatever. Just speculating why one could become so 'hardened' to a woman teaching a Sunday School class, women have MUCH wisdom
But, we come back to the word , 'order,' where Paul distinctly makes the distinction of man formed first and then woman and woman sinned and not man. So, this is ORDER. But, what of the order? Who is after man? Woman
She's not first in the order, but, she is IN the order. Get that ?
I don't know, yeah, OK, moving on. 1 Tim. 2:12 certainly makes it possible to believe that women should be quiet in church and submissive, paralleling much of the thought of 1 Cor. 14: 34-35, actually.
But, there is more here than meets the eye, too. What is it ! It is interpretation of the word 'teach,' and the words 'have authority.' Also the words 'I suffer not,' with Paul speaking. Again, are these 'confusion' words and God is 'not the author of confusion.' ? ? ? Sure. Obviously, we've been arguing this for how many pages now , LOL ?
What is NOT confusing is what homewardgoing said in his above quote. Similar things too we are Spirit-led folk, His Spirit in us, and, flesh is led by other things, like following the law, having to follow it.
The verses I listed CAN be confusing but are they? We don't know what God is doing, we might THINK we know it best that women NEVER should be a pastor over men, but we don't really KNOW, do we ? For God says in Isaiaih 55:8, "My ways are NOT your ways and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts.' God is ABOVE us in thought and way of doing things. Do you understand that, can I say, 'mysticism' of God, that mystery of godliness ? ?
So, do I ideally think women should be pastor over men ?? NO ! It's not ideal, but, can God call a woman to pastor a church, and, I most certainly think it's totally EXTREME that a woman can't teach a Sunday School class to a man, can He ? Yes ! SHe can.
So, in a nutshell, I believe all things are possible by God, NOT ideal is a woman teaching a man, per Scripture's CONFUSION on the subject. But possible? You bet ! And, preach a woman will when God CALLS her .
An example of a woman becoming pastor , green? Ok. It's done this 'way,' when God sees NO man step to the plate and become pastor of a church. Most likely scenario is a smalltown where there are only a few men--and none will become pastor--so a woman is CALLED by God to be a pastor of some church in Nobody, Idaho, or some other "Population: 60" town.
So, whether it's a woman pastor of 10,000 or 60, that's God's call and we should not conspire against His calling , should we ? With the 10,000, I think, that a man will likely come to the forefront unless the woman is doing a great job and producing fruit for that church--many coming to Christ-- and her words are really resonating with the congregation.
WE liken this verse to marriage but it's more than that, is it not: What God has brought together, let no man tear asunder.
Final question: When you see the obvious--a woman pastor over entire man-woman congregation--do you assume that its wrong based on what you know from 'confusing' Scripture, or, do you realize that God's leading things by His Spirit and that, quite possibly, YOUR spirit is acting in the flesh, and, not in the Spirit of His leading THIS CHURCH in this WAY