Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[zone]

Not letting the prophets speak is disobedience.

they spoke already.
it is written.

if your prophets have anything not written, what is it?

 

[Stephen63]

NOPE. But I DID search for narcissism on medical web sites, & they all agree!

agree with what?
your Jezebel stuff?

NOPE.
They agree that psychological projection is a standard trait of a true narcissist. Instead of giving proper answers, they will flip the question on you and make you the perpetrator. Then they will continue to look important by making long educated statements to tell you how bad you are. They expect everyone to know what they're talking about, when actually they don't. They are always right. Anyone who disagrees with them are always wrong, regardless of the evidence.

This is what I see you and SarahM777 do all the time on here. Blaming others for what you're doing. Judging, while doing the same things. Instead of giving answers, you two are always trying to throw it back in the other guy's face. If that doesn't work, you'll lie and judge, mock, ridicule, and whatever else it takes to win your argument.

By your actions, you believe the ends justify the means. That is not godly. That is not scriptural.

 

[zone]

NOPE.
They agree that psychological projection is a standard trait of a true narcissist. Instead of giving proper answers, they will flip the question on you and make you the perpetrator. Then they will continue to look important by making long educated statements to tell you how bad you are. They expect everyone to know what they're talking about, when actually they don't. They are always right. Anyone who disagrees with them are always wrong, regardless of the evidence.

This is what I see you and SarahM777 do all the time on here. Blaming others for what you're doing. Judging, while doing the same things. Instead of giving answers, you two are always trying to throw it back in the other guy's face. If that doesn't work, you'll lie and judge, mock, ridicule, and whatever else it takes to win your argument.

By your actions, you believe the ends justify the means. That is not godly. That is not scriptural.

there are a ton of answers posted.
you just don't like them.

no more prophets.


don't need them.

 

[Stephen63]

there are a ton of answers posted.
you just don't like them.

no more prophets.


don't need them.

See? It has to be your way. I rest my case.

 

[zone]

See? It has to be your way. I rest my case.

no, if anyone just provided the evidence of a prophet receiving direct revelation from God, we could test it.
and we've done so.

so far, no go.

sooooo.......since you're in the group who knows the prophets and won't provide their names and stuff, what can be said?

specially in light of this:

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

there's a meeting right here at CC.

so why not load some tongues and prophecy?

 

[Stephen63]

Well, 'bout time for me to go to work, again, so Laters, taters!

 

[Cee]

Actually...

OT Prophets were tried by this. Because only they could hear His voice. SO they couldn't be wrong obviously.

NT Prophesy is different in the fact we are ALL supposed to hear His voice, so now we test the spirits for ourselves.

Jesus actually said to tell a false prophet is to look at their fruit. He said good trees can not bear bad fruit, and bad trees can not bear good, for instance if I don't hear love in a person's words, I don't believe they have anything to teach me about God.

C.

To me it's sort of telling, That someone would say that prophets can make "error messages".. when that was the one way that God said we could tell false prophets from true prophets..:O

 

[zone]

anyways.....i guess i'll keep searching for people who are speaking in tongues.
maybe someone can tell us what they saying.


Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible


[video=youtube;TvOhnHw3r60]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOhnHw3r60[/video]

Interpreting Tongues: How to bible lesson for beginners

2:25

its best if you don't pause between speaking in tongues then interpreting immediately after

don't even take a breath, just go right into the interpretation.

2:30

the reason is for keeping you (sic) brain disengaged

2:43

meaning keep your brain turned off and your heart turned on

3:04

if you are used to keeping your brain disengaged - know what disengaged means? turned off, and you're used to listening to God with your heart then if you need to you can maybe take a breath or pause for just a moment.

but if pausing might cause you to stumble then don't pause. because pausing gives your brain a chance to start thinking again.

3:35

you don't want to have any stumbling blocks when you are manifesting the Spirit.

3:48

what's really cool about all this is.....God had made it super easy for us to praise and worship Him.

and to pray properly EXACTLY the way He wants us to.


etc


~

are we ever told to turn our brains off?

i don't know.

can any tongue talker-interpreters say if this is correct or not?

 

[zone]

[video=youtube;L7S4xd-Q-Pk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7S4xd-Q-Pk[/video]

Personal prophetic words given by Sharon Stone 2(3)

Published on Mar 14, 2012
God is seeing you, and he knows all struggles you face!
This get very clear when Sharon Stone
is ministering with personal prophetic words to
people in the assembly.
This is from a meeting on TV Visjon Norge in mars 2012.

~


k...prophetess Sharon Stone supposedly gives First Person verbatim words from God to people.
is this how God speaks?

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

would this be an example of a meeting where ppl are being obedient?

 

[Cee]

All you have given is twisted logic.

Supplied no Scripture to show gifts have ceased.

Have been refuted countless times, and now my integrity is questioned.

You don't believe me? That's fine. But, if you ever want to meet me face to face, I am open to this. And we will go on the street together and follow the Lord's Word which tells us to pray for the sick. As far as prophesy is concerned, I have seen this in action and I have been used like this many times...

I've seen prophets know to the day, what has happened to people, what they were wearing, the injury etc, then they prayed for them to be healed, like James tells us to have an elder pray and they were. One man like this James Maloney.

He has gone around the world preaching the gospel and I have seen many miracles from his prayers.
Another man is Mohesh Chavda under his preaching over 500k were saved and I have personally met him as well. Many miracles under this man. God told me I would meet him and that day I was invited to go and see him.
Another man is Reinhard Bonke millions have come to the gospel from him going around the world to follow the great commission and God backs him up.
Another man is Randy Clark I have met him personally, hundreds of thousands have come to the gospel and I met him personally, when he prayed for me, I felt the power of God like I had never before, and a lot of my fear, worry, depression were taken away... I was in a room where many were healed.

I've seen metal removed. Cancer healed. Pain taken away many times. I've seen people who couldn't walk well, be healed. I've prayed for people over Facebook, Skype and even the prayer room in the CC and get healed.

This is my testimony, call me a liar if you wish, don't believe me if you wish, we all will give an account.

One day we will all give an account for our lives, I will give an account for believing that God still heals today, that God still still speaks to people. And you will give an account for not believing He still heals today and that He doesn't speak to people, except through His word.

It is what it is, but I will not attack your integrity. Nor will I call you a liar.

You have made your stand, regardless of what anyone says, and what Scripture says you have made up your mind.

For those, who do have an open mind to doing what God is calling us to do. Pray for the sick. Ask Him to speak to people through you, and you can test the spirits for yourself. I don't see any good fruit coming from my participation in this thread. Those who write have made up their minds yes or no.

But if anyone is on the edge, just keep an open mind, and pray to the Holy Spirit to open your eyes that you will not have a hard heart to what God is doing. Above all things, we must always be open to what God is doing. So be sensitive to His voice. And follow it, right or wrong, at least you can say that you followed the Spirit when we give an account.

C.

 

[zone]

James Maloney.

Mohesh Chavda

Reinhard Bonke

Randy Clark

thanks Cee.
i'm familiar with these people.

do you mean Mahesh and Bonnie Chavda?


i'll post a little later.
have to go out.

 

[presidente]

they spoke already.
it is written.

if your prophets have anything not written, what is it?

That's not what Paul wrote. That's not what is written on the issue. What is written is 'let the prophets speak two or three...' and "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."

 

[zone]

That's not what Paul wrote. That's not what is written on the issue. What is written is 'let the prophets speak two or three...' and "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."

they were alive when paul was walking around.
that's why he gave them instructions...in person.

how about you, presidente ?
could you add to Cee's list and we can check them later?

if we find problems maybe you could explain them away for me.
zone.

 

[presidente]

they were alive when paul was walking around.
that's why he gave them instructions...in person.

Paul gave the instructions to the Corinthian church and all who call on the name of the Lord. The Corinthians did not have the authority to change the way of ministering church away from God's command any more than the other churches, and neither do we.

how about you, presidente ?
could you add to Cee's list and we can check them later?

No, I don't care to pass out names to you for you to sneer at. I see how you 'test' things. Your problem is you don't believe Bible the word says about spiritual gifts.

if we find problems maybe you could explain them away for me.
zone.

You seem to be skilled at explaining things away if only for your own satisfaction, or more likely just dodge them. Usually, though, it's the Bible you explain away rather than problems.

 

[presidente]

um...no.
cessationism read the accounts in context.
and doesn't narcigete the reader into the exciting parts of the founding the first century church.
plus there's that pesky church history.

You mean like the numerous references to miracles and visions and such long after the Twelve had passed away? Especially in the second century, there is plenty of evidence that the church accepted miracle. Even during the time of the Montanists and later, the mainstream 'orthodox' or 'catholic' church accepted prophecy as a genuine gift.

Most consider the father of Pentecostalism to be Charles Parham, a young college student from Kansas with roots in the Methodist Church. While the Wesleys (John & Charles) could not be defined as Pentecostals, their theology laid the foundation upon which the Pentecostal movement would be built. Principally, it was the Methodist view that sanctification was a second work of grace, separate from salvation, coupled with the Holiness belief of a third experience, the "Baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire," that intrigued Parham. Parham was also influenced by a fresh desire within his denominational circles to experience divine healing and speaking in tongues -- practices that most Christians at the end of the nineteenth century believed had ceased with the Apostolic age.

There were other churches that believed in or practiced spiritual gifts, apparently, before Parham's Bible college.

In 1900, Parham opened a Bible college to promote these views, which he deemed "Apostolic Faith" theology. An interesting footnote is Parham’s theory that God would soon give His church the gift of tongues, in the form of known languages, so that the world could be quickly evangelized.

Parham did not have experience with the gift at that time. Maybe he hadn't dug deeply enough into I Corinthians 14. Probably a number of people who would later be Pentecostals speculated on such things. It could be Ozman's speaking in tongues in German and people recognizing it, if the Topeka newspaper article is to believed, that reinforced the idea.

"This end–time revival, accompanied by believers speaking in known languages they had never learned (xenolivia),

I did not know Olive was a foreigner. I thought Popeye's girlfriend was American. I suspect you mean xenoglossia. I doubt Parham used that term. The Biblical term for that is glossalalia, but modern academics in certain fields call that xenoglossia.

 

[RickShafer]

It all goes back to "when that which is perfect has come".
Some say it is the scripture, funny how that perfect thing produced 2200 denominations.
I would figure if we are seeing face to face we would all be in one accord.
But yet, the 2200 denominations see through a glass darkly even now.
"When I was a child I spoke as a child", - same ones in the age of the gifts - speaking as children they say!
"But when I am grown I put away childish things", - they say the gifts of the Holy Spirit are the 'childish things'.

Then it should be clear, as to when the gifts ceased.
They cannot find it because it is not in the Holy Canon which they say they revere so much.

Watch what verse they try to encumber to reinforce their doctrine.
- (No......just watch......it's funny)
- - O.K. come on with it cessationists. (This is a hoot)

 

[Stephen63]

UMM You forget where I was. I was AOG for a number of years and again what I saw was the very much the same as what has been shown. I have been open to the fact if ANYONE CAN SHOW THE REAL AND NOT THE FAKE it would change my mind. I have been wrong before,I came to the point of believing I was wrong about continuation because of all the garbage. I became convinced of this also because so often what I have seen is often many who come out of some of those churches have NOT SHOWN THE FRUITS of the spirit. It is for us to show the same love Jesus had for the woman at the well,(The one shacking up with someone other then her husband),the woman caught in adultery,the thief on the cross,the gays,the lesbians,the transgender. All those people that somehow a lot of those Bible believing,Holy Ghost baptized people would never,ever give the time of day to and would much rather throw an anchor on them and condem them to hell. Never mind showing them the very savior that came to save them too. Never mind the fact that Jesus spread His hands,and took those same nails for them also. Go ahead and tell me that is what Jesus told us to do.

That is the part that is so often lacking,showing the love of Jesus,showing them our savior, to transform hearts,minds and souls to bring them into the kingdom.

​How many AOG churches did you attend?

 

[Stephen63]

UMMM Stephen Please show me where it says Jesus in that verse?

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror;then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.


Do you actually read what it says and not add to it? So where does it say Jesus?

Then YOU explain who we will see when I shall know all things as God already knows all things about me. Give Scripture.

 

[SarahM777]

It all goes back to "when that which is perfect has come".
Some say it is the scripture, funny how that perfect thing produced 2200 denominations.
I would figure if we are seeing face to face we would all be in one accord.
But yet, the 2200 denominations see through a glass darkly even now.
"When I was a child I spoke as a child", - same ones in the age of the gifts - speaking as children they say!
"But when I am grown I put away childish things", - they say the gifts of the Holy Spirit are the 'childish things'.

Then it should be clear, as to when the gifts ceased.
They cannot find it because it is not in the Holy Canon which they say they revere so much.

Watch what verse they try to encumber to reinforce their doctrine.
- (No......just watch......it's funny)
- - O.K. come on with it cessationists. (This is a hoot)

Ahh And therein lies the problem

The Greek Interliner Bible translates that word as this

teleion
teleion
G5046
a_ Acc Sg n
mature
maturity


That same word Teleion has different meanings depending on the CONTEXT of the passage

SO WHAT IS "THE TELEION" OF 1 COR. 13:10?
Probably the best way to grasp the proper sense of teleion is to examine its use in other places in the New Testament where one of its several forms is used. Where the context helps, we will call attention to how it helps. As we do so, let us keep in mind that in 1 Cor. 13:10 to teleion is in the NEUTER gender, not the masculine, so it can not properly be understood as referring to the teleion person, but to the teleion thing. Unless we specify otherwise, we shall quote from the New King James Version. So examine its uses in:
John 4:34. "Jesus said to them, 'My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work.'" Given Jesus' statement, "to finish His work" seems to fit better than something like "to perfect His work." The NRSV translates teleioso here as "...and to complete His work."
John 5:36. "...the works that the Father has given Me to finish--the very works that I do--bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me." Again the NRSV translates teleioso ascomplete.
John 17:4. "I have finished the work which You have given me to do." The NASV translates teleiosas "...having accomplished the work...", and the NIV translates it "...by completing the work..."
John 19:30. Jesus on the cross said, "It is finished. And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit." Obviously, given the setting, it would be awkward to translate it as "It is perfected."
Acts 20:24. "...so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus..." The NIV uses two words to translate the single Greek word teleioso: "...if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me."
1 Corinthians 2:6. "However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature..." "Mature" (teleiois) is here contrasted with "babes in Christ" (3:1). It is this contrast which led the translators to translate teleiois "mature" instead of "finished" or "completed" or "perfected"--ways it could have been translated in some other context.
Ephesians 4:13-15. "...till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children ...... but .... may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ." Study the context! The picture being verbally painted is one of maturing. God wants us to no longer be babes in Christ, or children, but to grow up into Christ who is the head. And so the NASV is probably a little more accurate to translate it "to a mature man" instead of "to a perfect man." The NIV paraphrases this to read, "to grow up..."
Philippians 3:12. "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me." The NRSV translates teteleiomai here this way: "...or have already reached the goal..."
Philippians 3:15. "Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind..." This continues the thought expressed in v. 12 (above).
Colossians 1:28. "...that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." The NRSV reads. "...present everyone mature in Christ Jesus."
Colossians 4:12. "...that you may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God." The NIV and the NRSV render this, "...that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured."
2 Timothy 4:7. "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."
Hebrews 5:13-14. "For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." The NASV reads, "But solid food is for the mature..." The NIV and the NRSV agree with the NASV. The translators could have rendered teleion here as "perfect," but the context shows that "the mature" or "them that are of full age" is by far the better way to translate it.
James 1:4. Our word is found twice in this verse. "But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." (That other word here, "complete," is from holokleroi, a synonym of teleion.) It is interesting how the different versions translate this. The NRSV translates it, "And let endurance have its full effect, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking in nothing." The NIV translates it, "Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything."
Revelation 10:7. "But in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets." The NIV reads, "...the mystery of God will be accomplished..."
Revelation 11:7. "When they finish their testimony..."
Revelation 20:3,5. "...until the thousand years were finished." The NASV reads, "...until the thousand years were completed." Both the NIV and the NRSV read, "...until the thousand years were ended." The context and sentence structure would make awkward a rendering such as, "...until the thousand years were perfected" or "were matured."

Having now examined these other uses of various forms of teleios, we are ready to more closely examine 1 Corinthians 13:10 in its context. Here we return to our key verse in this discussion. Because of an apparent bias that 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 refers to the end of time and to Christ in His return, most translators ignore the contrast of to teleion and ek merous. But the context, with this important contrast, is not to be ignored. Most translations render to teleion as "the perfect." However, honoring the context, the NRSV correctly translates it, "...but when the complete comes..."
"The complete (to teleion)" is clearly contrasted with ek merous, literally, out of pieces or parts. That which was "in part"--the knowledge of truth imparted through the gift of knowledge, the revelations of God's will imparted to believers through the gift of prophecy, and the disclosing of His will through the authorized interpretation of the tongues (languages) spoken by one with the gift of tongues--was to pass away and cease when "the teleion" would come. To teleion (usually translated "the perfect" but more properly translated "the complete" in the light of the contrasted terms in this context) was promised to come when that which was in part was to be done away. They would pass away because they were no longer needed. They were vital bits and pieces of God's will and truth being given progressively and incrementally until absorbed in the full deposit of His will and truth (the COMPLETE), and this was in the hands of the church and was widely distributed.
Several gifts or gifted offices were put in place when the church was in its infancy. God had a vital purpose to bring about through the use of these, and that purpose was that the church might be edified and firmly established in THE COMPLETED TRUTH THAT GOD WAS PROGRESSIVELY REVEALING.

Church of Christ - What is the "Perfect" in I Corinthians 13:10?


It's the SAME WORD in every instance. IT MUST BE DETERMINED FROM WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE PASSAGE.
It's no different in Greek then it is in an English when words HAVE MULTIPLE meanings.

 

[Stephen63]

anyways.....i guess i'll keep searching for people who are speaking in tongues.
maybe someone can tell us what they saying.


Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible


[video=youtube;TvOhnHw3r60]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvOhnHw3r60[/video]

Interpreting Tongues: How to bible lesson for beginners

2:25

its best if you don't pause between speaking in tongues then interpreting immediately after

don't even take a breath, just go right into the interpretation.

2:30

the reason is for keeping you (sic) brain disengaged

2:43

meaning keep your brain turned off and your heart turned on

3:04

if you are used to keeping your brain disengaged - know what disengaged means? turned off, and you're used to listening to God with your heart then if you need to you can maybe take a breath or pause for just a moment.

but if pausing might cause you to stumble then don't pause. because pausing gives your brain a chance to start thinking again.

3:35

you don't want to have any stumbling blocks when you are manifesting the Spirit.

3:48

what's really cool about all this is.....God had made it super easy for us to praise and worship Him.

and to pray properly EXACTLY the way He wants us to.


etc


~

are we ever told to turn our brains off?

i don't know.

can any tongue talker-interpreters say if this is correct or not?

Where in the world did you get this? Are you a whacko-magnet, drawing to yourself every messed up false prophet/teacher there is?
He stated anyone who is saved can do this. Not true. He stated he heard 3 & 4 yr olds do this. Really?

Implying every Pentecostal believes the same is like saying every Lutheran believes the same. Do you want me to start posting everything about Lutherans that I can find, true or not? This is what you have been doing from the beginning. And I mean since you've been on this site.