What Laws are still valid to christians

[Elin]

I think technically you are correct.
Not sure what problem 'spirit of the law' and 'letter
of the law' causes though.

Well, sad to say, it is more than technical.

The phrase "letter of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable; while the "spirit of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.

However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills).

The Spirit that gives life is the Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.

It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed.

So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in an incorrect understanding of the law and the Spirit.

 

[Hoffco]

This stupid world view, that sinners can not be forced to keep the laws of Gog; leads to, so forget having laws that are based on the 10 commandments, lets just teach LOVE . Sure, we only get the letter of the law when we force the law on people, but isn't that better then pastors children having babies of of marriage? I think so. Society is based on the outward keeping of the letter of the law, the inward spiritual keeping of the laws of God can only be don't be a born again christian, TRUE, but ,we are dealing with a pastors daughter who is pregnet, for the second time, this time by a married man , where are her morals? She has not new heart so ,no morals. she needs to be forced, by her parents and society,church, to obey the laws of God for the sake of her father's and mother's ministry. she needs to be forced to obey , or thrown out of the family. she is of age to be out on her own, and let Satan real drag her down to the gutter and maybe she will repent, like the prodical son. Laws are for the good of mankind. Love to all who obey God's laws, Hoffco

 

[Elin]

- Jesus was killed
- and resurrected
- the finished work Jesus came to do

....

not only do most of us think of; remember; honor and praise God for these events every DAY....they are thought of; remembered; honored and God is praised as we assemble every Sunday - the first day of the week.

It is so unusual to see out here a former "Jew" so clear on NT Christianity!

Thank you, Jesus!

 

[homwardbound]

Under the law means being subject to the law to obey it in its entirety, or to incur its curses through disobedience to any part of it.

If one is after justification from the Law

 

[homwardbound]

Someone's been lying to you. Keeping the law perfectly is required.

Cursed is every man that continues not in all the words of this law to do them: and all the people shall say, So be it. Deuteronomy 27:26

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” Galatians 3:10​

enablement through Christ to Love as God does is what does the enablement to fulfill all the Law, God getting all the credit and not man ever.
motive is another story, and either one receives or one does not depending on Motive, therefore God will have Mercy on whomever God chooses, knowing the Motive(s) of everyone, before anyone has ever received mercy and Faith that Justifies that Mercy given to anyone from God

 

[Hoffco]

SORRY, GOD, not "Gog". out of marriage, not "of of marriage". Romans 3:31"Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." Our faith turns us back to the Word of God to learn what deeds are good and holy. The new birth puts into our hearts the desire to obey but does not give us any directions, laws, to obey. the Bible,, the law, has to give us the direct commands to obey. The N.T. gives us the decernment to know what laws are still in force for us today. ALWAYS, be open to the Spirit thru the Bible to teach you. The Spirit does not teach with out the Bible to teach us from. the Spirit does not speak to us directly, openly with audible words. If you want the mind of the Spirit you have to work hard at Bible study.! Love to all. Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

Circumcision in the flesh was a command in the law of Moses. So was circumcision of the heart. If a son of Israel wasn't circumcised in the flesh, he was cut off from Israel, even though he may have had a circumcised heart. That is the nature of law.

There are some here who insist that all law is equally valid. They make no distinction between the spirit of the law and letter of the law. Physical circumcision and spiritual circumcision are not the same thing, even though the latter is the fulfillment of the spirit of the letter.

What I'm trying to point out is that it is impossible today to be obedient to the letter of the law of circumcision, and to also be obedient to Christ. They are mutually exclusive.

If what I just said isn't true, show me how a person can follow the letter of the law of circumcision and still be obedient to Christ. If you can't, then that means that the letter of the law has passed away. Paul said as much when he said physical circumcision is nothing.

The distinction is between the letter (flesh trying to do it) and the Spirit of God that enables us to be whole with God trusting God just as Christ did and thus do as Father says. Any Love permeating? God's type that is

 

[Josh321]

This stupid world view, that sinners can not be forced to keep the laws of Gog; leads to, so forget having laws that are based on the 10 commandments, lets just teach LOVE . Sure, we only get the letter of the law when we force the law on people, but isn't that better then pastors children having babies of of marriage? I think so. Society is based on the outward keeping of the letter of the law, the inward spiritual keeping of the laws of God can only be don't be a born again christian, TRUE, but ,we are dealing with a pastors daughter who is pregnet, for the second time, this time by a married man , where are her morals? She has not new heart so ,no morals. she needs to be forced, by her parents and society,church, to obey the laws of God for the sake of her father's and mother's ministry. she needs to be forced to obey , or thrown out of the family. she is of age to be out on her own, and let Satan real drag her down to the gutter and maybe she will repent, like the prodical son. Laws are for the good of mankind. Love to all who obey God's laws, Hoffco

you clearly don't understand the grace of God or what it means if you can say a statement like this..

 

[homwardbound]

Note: that should be Spirit, not spirit.

There is no "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law" in Scripture.

There is only the letter, which is the law, and the Spirit, which is the Holy Spirit.

The letter (the law) kills because of Dt 27:26, while the Spirit gives life (eternal life) because of faith.

2Co 3:6 is not referring to a "spiritual" meaning of the law, but to the person of the Holy Spirit.

• Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
  Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
  
  

 

[Elin]

---

Elin said:

Look at the context again:

"Remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, uncircumcised. . .were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenant. . .but now you have been brought near through the blood of Christ. . .who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in his flesh the (ceremonial) law with its commandments and regulations." (Eph 2:11-15)

The context shows that the two groups of v.14 were Gentiles and Israel.

The text is dealing with two different enmities, both resolved by Christ's death on the cross:

1) enmity between Jew and Gentile, caused by the ceremonial defilement laws, which he abolished (v.15), and

2) enmity between mankind and God, caused by sin, which his propitiating sacrifice remedied.

If you knew your OT better, you would know that the Jews remained separate from unbelieving Gentiles because of Gentile uncleanness according to the ceremonial laws of Lev.

You might want to review

Lev 11 (v.43),
15 (vv.1-12, 19-30),
20 (v.25),
22 (vv.5, 6).

"Do not be made unclean by them." (Lev 11:43)

All bodily discharges made them unclean, and that uncleanness made everything they touched
unclean, and everything that touched what they touched was made unclean (Lev 15:1-12, 19-30).

Therefore, all unbelieving Gentiles were unclean to Jews by the ceremonial law of Lev 15,
because the unbelieving Gentiles had no purification/cleansing remedy.

eternally-gratefull said:

lol. Ok.

If you want to believe God died to take the barrier away from jew and gentile. feel free.

I will take him at his word. He fulfilled the law. He removed that which was at enmity between us (the law) and made us one in Christ.

Removing the ceremonial law did not remove anything which was at enmity.. That is a false statement according to scripture.

Elin replies:

Non-responsive.

 

[Elin]

That would be Saturday after sunset to midnight.

That would be Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset.

 

[Hoffco]

How, in the world , can one be a "former 'Jew' "? I am what I am, and that can never change! I am part Scoh, part Abernacke (upstate N.Y. indian) what else, I don't know, That will never change. The phsical never changes, it is the spiritual that changes. We can spiritually see others with spiritual eyes but the physical never changes. You .we, still have to deal with a woman ,up on stage, in worship, shaking her , you know what, and men ,trying to keep their minds on Jesus , SO. we don't let women, who shake too much, lead worship. some .just can not control, the ,you know what. I think, the ethic, national distinstions will continue to eternity, but the sexuality will be gone. Anoher thought, some of you like being a robot, and let Jesus,God, do all the living thru us,for you, I don't think so, "I live in the flesh" paul said, by the faith, power of God given my in Jesus, but I do it ,not Jesus. Jesus does not "live His life through us". Love to all. Hoffco

 

[homwardbound]

That would be Saturday after sunset to midnight.

The Jewish Sabbath, I think is Friday sundown to Saturday Sundown. Is it?

 

[cfultz3]

Elin said:

Look at the context again:

"Remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth, uncircumcised. . .were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenant. . .but now you have been brought near through the blood of Christ. . .who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing in his flesh the (ceremonial) law with its commandments and regulations." (Eph 2:11-15)

The context shows that the two groups of v.14 were Gentiles and Israel.

The text is dealing with two different enmities, both resolved by Christ's death on the cross:

1) enmity between Jew and Gentile, caused by the ceremonial defilement laws, which he abolished (v.15), and

2) enmity between mankind and God, caused by sin, which his propitiating sacrifice remedied.

If you knew your OT better, you would know that the Jews remained separate from unbelieving Gentiles because of Gentile uncleanness according to the ceremonial laws of Lev.

You might want to review

Lev 11 (v.43),
15 (vv.1-12, 19-30),
20 (v.25),
22 (vv.5, 6).

"Do not be made unclean by them." (Lev 11:43)

All bodily discharges made them unclean, and that uncleanness made everything they touched
unclean, and everything that touched what they touched was made unclean (Lev 15:1-12, 19-30).

Therefore, all unbelieving Gentiles were unclean to Jews by the ceremonial law of Lev 15,
because the unbelieving Gentiles had no purification/cleansing remedy.

eternally-gratefull said:

lol. Ok.

If you want to believe God died to take the barrier away from jew and gentile. feel free.

I will take him at his word. He fulfilled the law. He removed that which was at enmity between us (the law) and made us one in Christ.

Removing the ceremonial law did not remove anything which was at enmity.. That is a false statement according to scripture.

Elin replies:

Non-responsive.

And it must continue.......

 

[homwardbound]

If that is the case how does one fit three nights into that?

good point graybeard

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And it must continue.......

lol why is this?

Answer a non responsive post? lol

 

[Hoffco]

How, in the world , can one be a "former 'Jew' "? I am what I am, and that can never change! I am part Scoh, part Abernacke (upstate N.Y. indian) what else, I don't know, That will never change. The phsical never changes, it is the spiritual that changes. We can spiritually see others with spiritual eyes but the physical never changes. You .we, still have to deal with a woman ,up on stage, in worship, shaking her , you know what, and men ,trying to keep their minds on Jesus , SO. we don't let women, who shake too much, lead worship. some .just can not control, the ,you know what. I think, the ethic, national distinstions will continue to eternity, but the sexuality will be gone. Anoher thought, some of you like being a robot, and let Jesus,God, do all the living thru us,for you, I don't think so, "I live in the flesh" paul said, by the faith, power of God given my in Jesus, but I do it ,not Jesus. Jesus does not "live His life through us". Love to all. Hoffco

 

[royalscot]

Naboth’s Vineyard1 Kings 21
if the law was perfect, how can an not guilt man be killed under jewish law and decrees given to moses.
examples Naboth and jesus. ( because the people using it, in the wrong manner to keep it short)
　
23Before the coming of this faith,[17] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.Galatians 3
again already said in one of my post on this topic.

when jesus when back to heaven , a new covent, that stays in gods hand, this way, that god know hearts and minds. and know one will ever take you out of his hands now.

10This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.
l one body different parts

 

[homwardbound]

Yes. I don't keep it perfectly. I don't love perfectly.

I have faith that the Lord Jesus forgives me of this fault.

Yes in all you said is truth, yet now if you have given up 100% then God can through you keep the entire Law of love through you 100% of the time yes or no?

 

[Elin]

That is about the letter of the Law, not the Spirit of the Law of Love, that is spread abroad in the born again believer, is this truth?

I don't understand your question.