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cfultz3
Guest
That is what I have been trying to say all along. We respond to the Spirit not the Letter of the Law. Thanks...
Can Mosaic Law commend you to God
- Thread starter Keren
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The letter of the law is nothing without the spirit, and the spirit is nothing without the letter of the law.
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penny232323
Guest
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cfultz3
Guest
The letter of the Law leads by our flesh.
The Spirit leads by our spirit.
The Spirit is God and is the Originator of the Law.
Do you understand what you just said here: the Spirit is nothing without the letter of the Law? I am sure you did not mean to imply that without Law, God is nothing. I am quite assured that God has Law, but to say that He is nothing without them is quite far fetched. That would be like saying that God cannot exist without the Law.
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BradC
Guest
Good point to make and hard to refute. It's like saying that the Spirit cannot convict men's heart or had no ability to operate in creation without the law or with man from Adam to Moses. The words we hear from God are Spirit and life and minister to us way beyond the law. The law was given to shut the moth of man and the Spirit has been given that we might have life and words of life filling our mouth with grace and truth.
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Hoffco
Guest
Please keep in mind, God created man, God gave man laws to direct man to God, God works thru the law, His word. If we want to be full of Christ we must be full of His word, which is His law, the law of Jesus, God, is holy just and good , because by His law, Word, God speaks to us , without his word, law, God can not speak to us without his laws., the law of God convicts our soul, how can we be pure, by following all the words of God, His law must be in us , this is why God writes the,His laws on our hearts, God doesn't talk, except by His law, word. Soo, you better know which laws are for us today. Love in Christ's law. Hoffco
Well, this is what I was alluding to in my conversation. It was a reply from Keren in my own thread.
So because her thread asks similar questions related to the same topic of her reply on mine thread, I figured I'd put to words what some are actually saying to Christ if they were speaking to him directly, though they may not realize it.
I am not clear about the argument. One side is saying it is only the spirit, right?
The other side is saying it takes the spirit, and if you have the spirit you also have the law and the law is written both on paper and on our hearts, same thing? That is my side, did I state it as others understand it?
One side is saying that Jesus can be divided by Old Testament and New Testament, am I right in that?
The other side says God can't be divided, at least that is how I see it.
The other side is saying it takes the spirit, and if you have the spirit you also have the law and the law is written both on paper and on our hearts, same thing? That is my side, did I state it as others understand it?
One side is saying that Jesus can be divided by Old Testament and New Testament, am I right in that?
The other side says God can't be divided, at least that is how I see it.
What Good is the Law
Proverbs 3
Trust in the Lord
1My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
2For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
3Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
4So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Verse 4 seems to have the answer:
4So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
God Bless
Proverbs 3
Trust in the Lord
1My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
2For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
3Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
4So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
5Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Verse 4 seems to have the answer:
4So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
God Bless
Are you saying that to physically obey the law means we will die? What if we decide not to lie, and our heart is in that decision, but we would have to physically not lie? To not lie would be obeying the letter of the law.
Please my child, use your inside voice and don't shout at me. I really like what you say, only don't shout!
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cfultz3
Guest
Perhaps, this is what Redtent meant. I agree that God speaks to us through the Law. However, it is not the Law of God which convicts us, but ONLY the Spirit by the usage of that Law. By all means, we should point to God and not to what has been written. The Law leads by the flesh, God leads by the spirit.
I agree that His Law is within us, but we have to keep in mind that Christ came and preached Love not Law. It would then seem that we are to follow the moral Law of God through a spiritual walk with the Spirit, seeing that the laws which are not concerning morals, are/will be filled by Christ. And I think you hit the nail right on the head by saying, "Love in Christ's Law".
--Chris
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BradC
Guest
This is good but what most of them are talking about is not the law of faith that we have through every word of God and through doctrine. They are speaking of the law of Moses and the what was given to the people of Israel. The law of faith we have through the word of God is what we live by. This law of faith comes from the words that are Spirit and life that we have been given as the whole counsel of God. As a Jew or Gentile in Christ we have no obligation or instruction to live according to the law of Moses or what was given to Israel. The same God initiated both the law that came by Moses and the law of grace and truth we have as the law of Christ, but we are not under any obligation of the law of Moses or what was committed to Israel. We are under the law of grace and truth in Christ as a body of believers who make up the church who have their supply through the Spirit. All that Christ fulfilled in the law has become the righteousness that we have by faith and through faith in Christ. We have one law of love in Christ that fulfills the details of all NT commandments.
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Hoffco
Guest
Please ,keep in mind, if you work for a boss and you refuse his orders to move to a new location a new job and you refuse, you get fired. Soo, with God , He has replace the old with the new, if you refuse to move on and leave the old, you are fired, lost for ever! The rich ruler left Jesus, still lose in sin, He refused to obeyJesus command. Jesus is the sourch of salvation to all who "obey" Him. Heb. 5:9. Love to all who obey
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cfultz3
Guest
Love ya Redtent,
Yes, to physically obey the Law, we will die. But to spiritually obey the Law by hearkening to the Voice of the Lord as the Hebrews were to have done in the wilderness, is to live and to make it to the Promised Land.
You say, "what if we decide[d] not to lie". Allow me to rephrase that to, "What if we decided not to hearken unto the Spirit". The difference is that one is done by physical obedience, the other is spiritual obedience. We are told to die to the flesh and become alive to the spirit, because under Christ, we walk a spiritual path.
You also say, "would we have to physically not lie". Again, allow me to rephrase that to, "would we not have then spiritually decided to have listened to the Spirit's conviction". One is done unto the Letter of the Law, the other is done unto the Spirit of God.
So, "to not lie" would be obeying the Spirit, as oppose to obeying through our flesh.
With a very broad brush you use the phrase "The Mosaic law" and state it is not to be obeyed. Are you a NT-only kind of guy?
Romans 7:6 is specifically talking about the Law of Marriage/Divorce/Adultery which is discussed on both OT and NT.
But I shared that already, didn't I, in "Why the NT-only, grace-only theology is off the mark".
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-mark-post1375882.html?highlight=#post1375882
This is all so good, but how could the law of Moses be apart from God? If it is, we should rip it out of our bibles and print new corrected bibles. I thought it was directions on what God thinks about how we should obey the law of love and Moses was directed by God, so they were from God not Moses and should be left in our bibles.
Proverbs 2
King James Bible
The Benefits of Wisdom
1My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
6For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
7He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.
8He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.
9Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
10When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;
11Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:
12To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things;
13Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;
14Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked;
15Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths:
16To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;
17Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
18For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.
19None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.
20That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous.
21For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
22But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.
This proverbs is not Dedicated to Israel or Jerusalem but to the Saints , if one reads clearly what is being spoken of ,in verse 8 and 9 we can take note there is something to grasp here that others seem not to have a clear understanding towards or perhaps miss understood?
KJV
Proverbs 2:9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
NLT
proverbs 2:9 Then you will understand what is right, just, and fair, and you will find the right way to go.
God bless to you all , my last post on this thread
King James Bible
The Benefits of Wisdom
1My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
6For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
7He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.
8He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.
9Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
10When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;
11Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:
12To deliver thee from the way of the evil man, from the man that speaketh froward things;
13Who leave the paths of uprightness, to walk in the ways of darkness;
14Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked;
15Whose ways are crooked, and they froward in their paths:
16To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words;
17Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
18For her house inclineth unto death, and her paths unto the dead.
19None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.
20That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous.
21For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
22But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.
This proverbs is not Dedicated to Israel or Jerusalem but to the Saints , if one reads clearly what is being spoken of ,in verse 8 and 9 we can take note there is something to grasp here that others seem not to have a clear understanding towards or perhaps miss understood?
KJV
Proverbs 2:9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path.
NLT
proverbs 2:9 Then you will understand what is right, just, and fair, and you will find the right way to go.
God bless to you all , my last post on this thread
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Hoffco
Guest
Please ,keep in mind , all, or most, of you are thinking mainly of Justification only, and not the new birth,Sanctification , which is the first work of the Spirit in our life, born of God we have the principle of love, of wanting to keep God's laws , His will, his desires, His program for our grouth, and life in Cjrist, if there is no new heart of loving obedience in us we are lost . one can not be justified if they are not sanctified ,ie. born of God. The only question is, what laws do we haveto obey to be saved? Faith and works save. Read 1jh.2:29 "If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is Born of Him." Hoffco