Woman should not teach or assume authority over men (applies to secular????)
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T
Homwardbound, you seem to take 90% of what I say out of context. You also think you are right no matter what.
I admit I am stubborn so I have that problem too, but the difference is if you show me scripture clearly showing me I'm wrong, I'll listen. You have not. Not once have I said men and women are not equal. They are equal in importance to God. They do have different roles though. Equal does not mean equal opportunity. This is where the world has gone astray. I also understand a man of Christ is supposed to treat their wife as Christ treated them. With love. This means that they will respect their views highly, and have much self sacrifice for them. This being said, the wife is still to submit to the husband.
I admit I am stubborn so I have that problem too, but the difference is if you show me scripture clearly showing me I'm wrong, I'll listen. You have not. Not once have I said men and women are not equal. They are equal in importance to God. They do have different roles though. Equal does not mean equal opportunity. This is where the world has gone astray. I also understand a man of Christ is supposed to treat their wife as Christ treated them. With love. This means that they will respect their views highly, and have much self sacrifice for them. This being said, the wife is still to submit to the husband.
A
I've thought about this a lot. I feel it really depends on the particular woman. I always feel that a man's opinion is worth more than mine. That might just be society and stuff, but certainly I would feel that if it was my husband (I am still single). I feel that it would be right for me to worship my husband and even saying that sound so right for me. But not all men want to be leaders and not all women want to be led. Then again, I feel more comfortable with older men, so perhaps it's more natural for me to let such men take the lead anyways.
It must be a cultural thing or how you were raised. 
I do not feel that a man's opinion is worth more than mine. Opinions are just that: they are what someone thinks or feels and everyone is entitled to theirs. The truth is a different story. But opinions, nope.
And, for me, no man deserves 'worship' as you put it, not even my husband, should I marry. Yes, I will honor him and be submissive and obedient, according to God's word, but my husband is not always going to be right, the things he does is not always going to be just and perfect, and the way he acts isn't always going to be godly. Why? Because he is a mere man. Understanding this, I save my worship for Jesus Christ and Him alone.
I do believe that men in authority deserve respect, unless they are ungodly and evil in their deeds and words, but not all men deserve respect and honor. An abusive man does not warrant respect from me, regardless of his logic for the abuse, and this includes men in authority roles, such as pastors and husbands.
Just some of my thoughts. Thank you for sharing yours. It's always good to see another perspective and realize that not everyone lives life the way that I do.
I do not feel that a man's opinion is worth more than mine. Opinions are just that: they are what someone thinks or feels and everyone is entitled to theirs. The truth is a different story. But opinions, nope.
And, for me, no man deserves 'worship' as you put it, not even my husband, should I marry. Yes, I will honor him and be submissive and obedient, according to God's word, but my husband is not always going to be right, the things he does is not always going to be just and perfect, and the way he acts isn't always going to be godly. Why? Because he is a mere man. Understanding this, I save my worship for Jesus Christ and Him alone.
I do believe that men in authority deserve respect, unless they are ungodly and evil in their deeds and words, but not all men deserve respect and honor. An abusive man does not warrant respect from me, regardless of his logic for the abuse, and this includes men in authority roles, such as pastors and husbands.
Just some of my thoughts.
Thank you for sharing yours. It's always good to see another perspective and realize that not everyone lives life the way that I do. 
Late reply is late... college and everything else.
Your first example... is weak. The actions of the woman should be obvious... leave or support the righteous men who would confront this issue as the leaders they ought to be.
The next one is a better example but the answer isn't too complicated. She has the choice of doing either... or both. She can choose to hold strong in that relationship because that's how much endurance (part of the definition of love) she has for him and her family (similairly a man who is married to an adulterous or likewise abusive woman may choose to toughen through it our of love [endurance]... however I think, woman or anyone for that matter with common sense... would know there should be a line to this... after all... the guy could kill her. I think she's justified to stay because of love with common sense parameters AND/or tell others. I recall a pastor commenting on this issue... a woman in that situation has the church at her disposal. She shouldn't be alone in this... she should share it with the church.. following this set of protocals set in the Bible:
[h=3]Matthew 18:15-17[/h]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Social settings... obvious answers... of course she can talk to anyone. Mary talked... and there were others. However, scripture clearly says she should teach or practice authority over men. Accidents, why bring them up when they are accidents? By default... they lose their apparent cause when its an accident.
In marriage... (sigh) your just stretching things. It should come to you as common knowledge that a woman can speak.
You don't understand the logic I explained when I said that some things are basically YES and NO... and other things are MAYBES and DEPENDS. In order to find out ... it takes some reading and intuition. Can women speak... of course.. haven't you read how women do speak in the scriptures.
Doesn't matter if all women are the same or not. Scriptures call for women to not teach or take authority over men. Will you take God's word when its so clear? And please don't add any negative connotations or assumptions on me when you haven't seen any evidence of them... in the past, present or future... this is said as JUST IN CASE. Thank you
Your first example... is weak. The actions of the woman should be obvious... leave or support the righteous men who would confront this issue as the leaders they ought to be.
The next one is a better example but the answer isn't too complicated. She has the choice of doing either... or both. She can choose to hold strong in that relationship because that's how much endurance (part of the definition of love) she has for him and her family (similairly a man who is married to an adulterous or likewise abusive woman may choose to toughen through it our of love [endurance]... however I think, woman or anyone for that matter with common sense... would know there should be a line to this... after all... the guy could kill her. I think she's justified to stay because of love with common sense parameters AND/or tell others. I recall a pastor commenting on this issue... a woman in that situation has the church at her disposal. She shouldn't be alone in this... she should share it with the church.. following this set of protocals set in the Bible:
[h=3]Matthew 18:15-17[/h]
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Social settings... obvious answers... of course she can talk to anyone. Mary talked... and there were others. However, scripture clearly says she should teach or practice authority over men. Accidents, why bring them up when they are accidents? By default... they lose their apparent cause when its an accident.
In marriage... (sigh) your just stretching things. It should come to you as common knowledge that a woman can speak.
You don't understand the logic I explained when I said that some things are basically YES and NO... and other things are MAYBES and DEPENDS. In order to find out ... it takes some reading and intuition. Can women speak... of course.. haven't you read how women do speak in the scriptures.
Doesn't matter if all women are the same or not. Scriptures call for women to not teach or take authority over men. Will you take God's word when its so clear? And please don't add any negative connotations or assumptions on me when you haven't seen any evidence of them... in the past, present or future... this is said as JUST IN CASE. Thank you
I said may and I think anyone can see the intuitive logic of why I said may. One of the reasons give for women not to be in authority is because Eve... was deceived and Adam wasn't. Connect the dots and its not hard to see why I said it looks like there is evidence for that line of thinking.
Well, I wasn't implying smarter but I am clearly saying this... Eve was deceived and Adam wasn't and this is why women shouldn't be in charge of men. Think what you like of it but scripture clearly says women ought not be in authority.
Generalizations are clearly not always wrong. A simple example is mankind (excluding Jesus Christ). I can generalize us as sinners. How about all husbands... generalized.. ought to lead their wives. Don't go by secular standards... the secular's methodology of judgment doesn't apply.
Your going off a tangent.... fact is a fact... generally most women tend to lean left.
Well, I wasn't implying smarter but I am clearly saying this... Eve was deceived and Adam wasn't and this is why women shouldn't be in charge of men. Think what you like of it but scripture clearly says women ought not be in authority.
Generalizations are clearly not always wrong. A simple example is mankind (excluding Jesus Christ). I can generalize us as sinners. How about all husbands... generalized.. ought to lead their wives. Don't go by secular standards... the secular's methodology of judgment doesn't apply.
Your going off a tangent.... fact is a fact... generally most women tend to lean left.
Its not complicated. Women can preach, teach, and prophesies... to other women and children. However there is this parameter... don't teach or have authority over men. Do you see that?
The reason men are suppose to be in charge wasn't based on how perfect he was but as scripture says the reasons are these...
1. Adam was created first, then Eve.
2. Adam wasn't deceived but Eve was deceived.
The reason men are suppose to be in charge wasn't based on how perfect he was but as scripture says the reasons are these...
1. Adam was created first, then Eve.
2. Adam wasn't deceived but Eve was deceived.
Nobody is saying God respects men... just qouting that scripture says women shouldn't have authority over them.
I'm pretty sure Galatians speaks of a deeper meaning... I'm thinking souls. And at the same time we are identified as husband and wife in Christ and God has made man head of the household.
I'm pretty sure Galatians speaks of a deeper meaning... I'm thinking souls. And at the same time we are identified as husband and wife in Christ and God has made man head of the household.
I can't help feeling that this topic is an example of how rebellion has crept into the church.
First leadership is in rebellion to God as they are doing things their own way and as a result are emptying the church by degrees.
Because they are in rebellion, those under them are in rebellion as you always produce after your own kind.
At the bottom kids are in rebellion to authority full stop or as the Americans say, period.
The idea that both men and women are equal so that means females have as much right to be in positions of authority is the product of rebellion.
Until we drop this silly idea we will struggle to be relevant and effective because the church has become just another club with a religious component instead of standing out as a church that is more interested in what God says than what the world says.
Rebellion always has a slippery slope to it and currently it has slipped right down into the gutter in two ways. One ministry is now the province of whoever wants it i.e. homosexuals and two, whilst the world is crying out for a genuine and authentic church, we seem more interests in our internal squabbles than being what we should be.
First leadership is in rebellion to God as they are doing things their own way and as a result are emptying the church by degrees.
Because they are in rebellion, those under them are in rebellion as you always produce after your own kind.
At the bottom kids are in rebellion to authority full stop or as the Americans say, period.
The idea that both men and women are equal so that means females have as much right to be in positions of authority is the product of rebellion.
Until we drop this silly idea we will struggle to be relevant and effective because the church has become just another club with a religious component instead of standing out as a church that is more interested in what God says than what the world says.
Rebellion always has a slippery slope to it and currently it has slipped right down into the gutter in two ways. One ministry is now the province of whoever wants it i.e. homosexuals and two, whilst the world is crying out for a genuine and authentic church, we seem more interests in our internal squabbles than being what we should be.
G
What's really bad about this thread (not judging, just saying, and, in love, at that, cal ) IS that the 1 Timothy 2:12 verse is not even fully there. The words , 'she is to be quiet' follow "...over a man."
Here is the full verse: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, she is to be quiet."
The Lord leads, and, He led me to start a new thread that HIGHLIGHTED those five words, "...she is to be quiet."
The purpose and placement of those FIVE words is very important in order to understand the context and the meaning and intent of dear brother Apostle Paul in speaking the whole of 1 Timothy 2: 11-12 that carry so much controversy. And, good news !!
Cal's thread here has inspired He in me to do a thread of His own through me, I hope and pray this true, on this VERY topic Praise be to God, glory, too
) IS that the 1 Timothy 2:12 verse is not even fully there. The words , 'she is to be quiet' follow "...over a man."Here is the full verse: "I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, she is to be quiet."
The Lord leads, and, He led me to start a new thread that HIGHLIGHTED those five words, "...she is to be quiet."
The purpose and placement of those FIVE words is very important in order to understand the context and the meaning and intent of dear brother Apostle Paul in speaking the whole of 1 Timothy 2: 11-12 that carry so much controversy. And, good news !!
Cal's thread here has inspired He in me to do a thread of His own through me, I hope and pray this true, on this VERY topic
Praise be to God, glory, too
H
You think maybe the scriptures were referring to who was chosen to preach the gospel? Women were not chosen but men, Twelve, were chose to go into all the world to preach the gospel. The men of today that preach in the pulpit were not chosen either. (But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.)
Are woman saved in child bearing or by obedience to the gospel?
13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.)
Are woman saved in child bearing or by obedience to the gospel?
By belief in the finished work of Christ where new life is at in the resurrected Christ, given to all that believe, a free gift from God the Father
Now works do follow belief, but not flesh works of self, God's works through the born again believer, where we are reckoned by Christ's death dead to flesh and alive to God in the Spirit of God, born again as what is what Christ came here to do was redeem us in the Spirit of God via the resurrection
Just read Romans 6:1-6 and see, the fight is between flesh and Spirit of God
Now works do follow belief, but not flesh works of self, God's works through the born again believer, where we are reckoned by Christ's death dead to flesh and alive to God in the Spirit of God, born again as what is what Christ came here to do was redeem us in the Spirit of God via the resurrection
Just read Romans 6:1-6 and see, the fight is between flesh and Spirit of God
The problem in the Corinthian Church was they were no mature and took for granted the forgiveness they received and were not worried about eating up all the food and drinking all the wine, Having the Brothel there, women with shaven heads, preaching flesh doctrine, and having sex. I mean they used the thought of I am forgiven so what does it matter, I can harm my neighbor, I am forgiven, and this is truth, but not to be taken for granted, rather appreciated so much one ask Father how to walk as Christ walked and then Father teaches us to do so by Faith in Christ the Son.
Interpreter God via Holy Spirit
Interpreter God via Holy Spirit