Attack of the Judaizers

[JesusLives]

Just two groups of people in the end.

Characteristics of those who follow Jesus.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Characteristics of those who don't.
Daniel 7:25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law, Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

 

[RedTent]

Redtent, here are some quotes from the early church fathers. Please not the dates are before Constantine's birthday in 272 AD.

So as you can see, Constantine is not the one who who did away with sabbath observance.

I have read them, I have followed the path the church took after the apostles were gone. I'm glad you are reading this much of history!! The records of the church councils for the next 1,000 years are another good read. Also following the laws that Constantine put in Rome along with the years he gave those laws. The history of our church is very interesting. Another interesting aspect of history is following the history of the relationship between Jews and gentile over the many years. It has played such a major role in history that God must have a purpose in it that we aren't completely understanding.

Most of the history has the gentiles as the bad guys and the Jews as the good guys, yet we have Christ and they don't. Hard to understand.

 

[Hizikyah]

Review your post #1993, ninth paragraph.

Hilarious.

So I am promoting the levitical priesthood because I said:

"Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah."

The next verse was quoted by Yahshua as the 2nd greatest commandment:

Mattithyah 22:39-40, "And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Leviticus 19:18, "Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Yahweh."

Do you not uunderstand the there is still a priesthood? The ordinances of the priesthood have not been abolished but have been transferred to Yahshua, a eternal priesthood after the order of the malak zadiq.

Sounds like you disagree with the Messiah not just me.

And out of that post that was your rebuttal, telling.

I stand on all Scripture, no mistranslations or misunderstands but all Scripture.

Yess Matt 22:40 is awesome!

And we have gone through this many times, it dosent blot out all commandment, Shaul makes this clear in Romans 13.

Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.

And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

Mattithyah 19:16-17, "And behold, one came to Him, and said; Teacher, what righteous thing may I do, so that I may have eternal life? But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh."

1785. entolé
Original Word: ἐντολή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: entolé
Phonetic Spelling: (en-tol-ay')
Short Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Lets not lie to ourselves, Messiah clearly said a vital component to eternal life is following Yahweh's Laws. (or Commandments if you are stuck on mainstream traditional translation)

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

I find it telling that your claim I reject "NT" while these verses i quote are just more things Messiah said that people ignore. And what is the meaning of the term Christian? "Christ Like" Well Messiah kept and taught the Laws of His Father.

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

If we are to be followers of Messiah WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY DO WHAT HE SAYS. Not just read His words and say ehh, thats just another thing He said that im going to ignore.

 

[JesusLives]

Either you are not saying this how you need to, or you don't understand the significance of having that order reversed, as you do.
Why would anyone want to get saved, if they didn't think they were in error and hell-bound? That makes no sense, and it isn't how it works. Why would you call a lifeguard at the swimming pool? Because you're drowning. Why would you call the police? Because you know you need their intervention. There is absolutely nothing in the world that is help, if that help isn't needed.


You cannot be saved unless you call upon the Lord. Why call on Him if you don't need Him? You wouldn't. To call on the name of the Lord, it must first be pointed out to you that that is how you change your path from hell to heaven.
You must first know you need God to have a desire to call on Him. It really isn't that hard to understand.

God has many ways to woo a person to salvation - Just because Grandpa's steps to salvation don't measure up to your way does not mean Grandpa is not saved. God uses whatever means possible to encourage people to come to Him. Jesus is our only salvation but the ways to come to Jesus are many. So lighten up a little and love your brother Grandpa.

Sometimes God knocks us off our High Horse just ask brother Saul/Paul....>)......

 

[JesusLives]

I have a questions.

If the 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross as some of you are saying - Then why does anyone need to be saved since Jesus died? If the 10 Commandments are no longer relevant then no one is doing any wrong??? You say we are covered by grace and not under the law???

 

[danschance]

I have a questions.

If the 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross as some of you are saying - Then why does anyone need to be saved since Jesus died? If the 10 Commandments are no longer relevant then no one is doing any wrong??? You say we are covered by grace and not under the law???

Please show me who those people are that claim the 10 commandments are nailed to the cross. Frankly I have never seen a post that states the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross. Jesus was nailed to the cross.

 

[phil112]

I have a questions.

If the 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross as some of you are saying - Then why does anyone need to be saved since Jesus died? If the 10 Commandments are no longer relevant then no one is doing any wrong??? You say we are covered by grace and not under the law???

We are born into sin. After you reach the age of accountability, we must recognize that and repent of our sinful state. When we do that, the blood of Christ washes you clean and you are under grace at that point in time.

 

[JesusLives]

Please show me who those people are that claim the 10 commandments are nailed to the cross. Frankly I have never seen a post that states the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross. Jesus was nailed to the cross.

\

1)[/B] "For Christ is the end to the law of righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4

2) "Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under the a guardian (i.e. the mosaic law), for in Christ Jesus you are the sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:23-25

3) "by abolishing the commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace." Eph. 2:15

4) But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of written code. Romans 7:6

Danschance

You may not have said the word Nailed to the cross but I got that Idea from your post above. So could you please answer my questions?

If the 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross as some of you are saying - Then why does anyone need to be saved since Jesus died? If the 10 Commandments are no longer relevant then no one is doing any wrong??? You say we are covered by grace and not under the law???

 

[danschance]

\

1)[/B] "For Christ is the end to the law of righteousness to everyone who believes" Romans 10:4

2) "Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under the a guardian (i.e. the mosaic law), for in Christ Jesus you are the sons of God, through faith.
Gal 3:23-25

3) "by abolishing the commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace." Eph. 2:15

4) But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of written code. Romans 7:6

Danschance

You may not have said the word Nailed to the cross but I got that Idea from your post above. So could you please answer my questions?

If the 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross as some of you are saying - Then why does anyone need to be saved since Jesus died? If the 10 Commandments are no longer relevant then no one is doing any wrong??? You say we are covered by grace and not under the law???

Seriously, it is bearing false witness when you claim to quote a person and substitute your own words. In other words it is dishonest and sinful.

1) I have never even implied the 10 comandments are nailed to anything.

2)Here is another example of your dishonesty:

You say we are covered by grace and not under the law???

I have never said we "not under any laws". That is pure Male bovine droppings. I have said many, many times we are under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21).

3) Here is another one of your exaggerations...

If the 10 Commandments are no longer relevant then no one is doing any wrong???

No one, certainly not me or anyone since I have joined this site has ever stated the 10 Commandments are not relevant or even irrelevant. Manufacturing blatant distortions is bearing false witness and that is a sin!

Please start quoting other by what they have actually said and not by what you manufacture in Lala land.

 

[Karraster]

I have a questions.

If the 10 Commandments were nailed to the cross as some of you are saying - Then why does anyone need to be saved since Jesus died? If the 10 Commandments are no longer relevant then no one is doing any wrong??? You say we are covered by grace and not under the law???

Applause!!! best post!

 

[Rockbysea]

No one, certainly not me or anyone since I have joined this site has ever stated the 10 Commandments are not relevant or even irrelevant. Manufacturing blatant distortions is bearing false witness and that is a sin!

I don’t mean to gang up but I’ve never seen such blatant distortions, twisting of scriptures and untruths as I see coming out of these OT law promoters… One of them copied an unrelated scripture and pasted it right into the decree that went out of Jerusalem in an attempt to reverse its meaning. For being such fervent law promoters one would think that they would at least obey it.
.

 

[danschance]

I don’t mean to gang up but I’ve never seen such blatant distortions, twisting of scriptures and untruths as I see coming out of these OT law promoters… One of them copied an unrelated scripture and pasted it right into the decree that went out of Jerusalem in an attempt to reverse its meaning. For being such fervent law promoters one would think that they would at least obey it.
.

I agree. It is bearing false witness, a sin, to deliberately misquote a person to the point that they never even implied such nonsense. They call themselves the law keepers yet bear false witness?

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

Nazi germany and hitler started as a protestant church movement called KIRCHEN WAFE" church wars.
The moved in all the churches to sing patriotic songs and uphold the true german religion and throw out judaism (old testament, apostle paul writings, and the book of revelations)
other fundamentla churches were voted down and Germany voted officially to have two =religons, German protestant and catholic. All others were illegal and unrecognized and Jews who teach the old testament were not allowed to be members.
then, after this success they voted hitler into the chancelor position of the United nations because the "Jews" burned nown the United NAtions building (false flag)
so they started a war to cover up the killing of the Jews and moved from country to country, each country they exported all the Jews to poland by train, each country they invaded they moved the Jews to poland into slums. and finally when all the Jews were in poland they started eliminating them
the JEWISH RELIGION WAS SOLVED said hitler
they found a solution

never would churches have the old testament or revelation preached again....

this is now happening in
US and they will do the same thing, they cant stand the old testament or revelation or PAuls writings, and they will start anouther european war and complete the job

see, they cant justify sunday so they want to eliminate the dissent.

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

The word JUDAIZERS was used in all the church wars in Germany as a derogatory NAZI term. Whoever uses it is a bigot.

 

[JesusLives]

\



Seriously, it is bearing false witness when you claim to quote a person and substitute your own words. In other words it is dishonest and sinful.

1) I have never even implied the 10 comandments are nailed to anything.

2)Here is another example of your dishonesty:

I have never said we "not under any laws". That is pure Male bovine droppings. I have said many, many times we are under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21).

3) Here is another one of your exaggerations...

No one, certainly not me or anyone since I have joined this site has ever stated the 10 Commandments are not relevant or even irrelevant. Manufacturing blatant distortions is bearing false witness and that is a sin!

Please start quoting other by what they have actually said and not by what you manufacture in Lala land.

Maybe that is not what you meant to say but that is how it came across to me - Like since Jesus died we are not under the 10 Commandments. You keep saying they are Mosaic law that we are not under any more. Which to me means you think they are irrelevant.

I say God's law, (10 Commandments), still stand today - will it save me No I have said that over and over. Jesus saved me I accept His sacrifice by faith. It is His grace and mercy and sacrifice that draws me close to Him and because of my love for Him I want to obey. Because Jesus lives in me it is possible not me but Jesus in me that allows me to obey. God says if you love Me keep my commandments.

 

[JesusLives]

Originally Posted by JesusLives

No one, certainly not me or anyone since I have joined this site has ever stated the 10 Commandments are not relevant or even irrelevant. Manufacturing blatant distortions is bearing false witness and that is a sin!



I don’t mean to gang up but I’ve never seen such blatant distortions, twisting of scriptures and untruths as I see coming out of these OT law promoters… One of them copied an unrelated scripture and pasted it right into the decree that went out of Jerusalem in an attempt to reverse its meaning. For being such fervent law promoters one would think that they would at least obey it.
.

Rockbysea

You need to look at #2009 post again by Danschance as he is the one doing the quote you have my name on above. I was just asking questions.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Jesuslives, there is a huge gap of misunderstanding here. We (I hope to speak for some here) believe that the Ten commandments are relevant, but not in terms of salvation. The mosaic law has at least, or even at most, 3 important truths.

It points to a sinner's sin
It points to Christ
It helps us understand God more

Godliness taught by Christ was through love. It was spiritually deep. Once we believe in Christ, we have the law written on our heart to do what God desires. That's the Holy Spirit working within us. Transforming our inner man. A physical law cannot change a person, you must change inside to obey God. You can even read it in scripture how many times Israel failed with the physical law.

Since we died to a physical, we learn of a spiritual way of living. And with it, we obey the ten commandments. Jesus quoted from the law of Moses about an eye for an eye, but He taught that we should forgive instead. What does that tell us? We live by faith, and walk in love, not by a letter of religious practices.

 

[danschance]

The word JUDAIZERS was used in all the church wars in Germany as a derogatory NAZI term. Whoever uses it is a bigot.

That appears to be your opinion. I can not find evidence to support it and I suspect it is a figment of your imagination, unless you can provide proof.

The term Judaize is a biblical term that Paul used in Gal 2:14.


Here it is in the Greek: Strong's Greek: 2450. Ἰουδαΐζω (Ioudaizó) -- to Judaize

 

[JesusLives]

Jesuslives, there is a huge gap of misunderstanding here. We (I hope to speak for some here) believe that the Ten commandments are relevant, but not in terms of salvation. The mosaic law has at least, or even at most, 3 important truths.

It points to a sinner's sin
It points to Christ
It helps us understand God more

Godliness taught by Christ was through love. It was spiritually deep. Once we believe in Christ, we have the law written on our heart to do what God desires. That's the Holy Spirit working within us. Transforming our inner man. A physical law cannot change a person, you must change inside to obey God. You can even read it in scripture how many times Israel failed with the physical law.

Since we died to a physical, we learn of a spiritual way of living. And with it, we obey the ten commandments. Jesus quoted from the law of Moses about an eye for an eye, but He taught that we should forgive instead. What does that tell us? We live by faith, and walk in love, not by a letter of religious practices.

I agree with you - the Holy Spirit living in us helps us to obey the law we can't do it on our own and I have said over and over that the law can't save us. But my problem is with trying to do away with the 10 commandments as I believe that they are the guidelines to God's government and will still be in force in heaven. We still will have a power of choice in heaven we won't ever want to sin again because who would ever want a repeat of this earth and the sorrows and death we have had to deal with here. Thank God for His plan of salvation through Jesus our Savior. Who deserves our honor and praise throughout eternity. I can't wait to sing praises to Him and bow down and worship Him face to face.

 

[Spokenpassage]

I agree with you - the Holy Spirit living in us helps us to obey the law we can't do it on our own and I have said over and over that the law can't save us. But my problem is with trying to do away with the 10 commandments as I believe that they are the guidelines to God's government and will still be in force in heaven. We still will have a power of choice in heaven we won't ever want to sin again because who would ever want a repeat of this earth and the sorrows and death we have had to deal with here. Thank God for His plan of salvation through Jesus our Savior. Who deserves our honor and praise throughout eternity. I can't wait to sing praises to Him and bow down and worship Him face to face.

I see the zeal in you sister, but I believe love is much better. There once was a rich young man who sought Jesus for knowledge of obtaining salvation. The Lord gave him a recap on 5 commandments, but the young man said he had kept them from his youth up. But Jesus saw his heart, and understood what he was missing, what he was lacking. A heart of love and devotion in his life. Jesus told him to go give his possessions to the poor and follow him. The rich young man walked away with sadness for he had many possessions.

You can obey all the commands of God, but if there is no love in them. What's the point? Sure you can honor your parents, but with a stiff heart against them, you are guilty of lack of love. Love is the key that opens those doors of commands, the door doesn't open by itself....