Zimmerman Trial....divisive or definitive?

[ServantStrike]

Have you ever been a neighborhood watchman? I was a neighborhood watchman for 3 months when I got enough. Did I leave because of the rude tenants & visitors that passed through? It was my partner that I worked with that made me quit. He wanted to "get into the face" of those who rejected his so-called "interrogation." I begin to fear for my life because we were unarmed. Therefore, I have a better insight into GZ & TM situation than you would.

Well there's your problem right there.


Neighborhood watchmen don't conduct interrogations - or shouldn't at least.


Both Zimmerman and Martin screwed up that night. It's what often happens when you solve problems with fists instead of words. It is unfortunately all hearsay at this point trying to figure out what happened, but I believe the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - I'm pretty sure Martin doubled back, and I'm pretty sure George was acting aggressively.

 

[biscuit]

Well there's your problem right there.


Neighborhood watchmen don't conduct interrogations - or shouldn't at least.


Both Zimmerman and Martin screwed up that night. It's what often happens when you solve problems with fists instead of words. It is unfortunately all hearsay at this point trying to figure out what happened, but I believe the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle - I'm pretty sure Martin doubled back, and I'm pretty sure George was acting aggressively.

There is a tendency for some visitors to take the long way around (doubling back) to avoid security (neighborhood watchman) or possibly to commit a criminal act. I tried not to prejudge them but I kept my eyes on them while my partner wanted to be Deputy Dawg.

 

[ServantStrike]

There is a tendency for some visitors to take the long way around (doubling back) to avoid security (neighborhood watchman) or possibly to commit a criminal act. I tried not to prejudge them but I kept my eyes on them while my partner wanted to be Deputy Dawg.

I can see where that might be a source of contention between you. Where I really do have to wonder is what possible value would there be in confronting someone. You're neighborhood watch, you can't do anything - they know it and you know it. Neighborhood watch is basically an unpaid security guard job - you wait until you see something and then you call the police.

 

[biscuit]

I can see where that might be a source of contention between you. Where I really do have to wonder is what possible value would there be in confronting someone. You're neighborhood watch, you can't do anything - they know it and you know it. Neighborhood watch is basically an unpaid security guard job - you wait until you see something and then you call the police.

Some are paid others are not. But you are 100% correct that we are to call the police. At the neighborhood I worked in we had hired-security personnel who were armed to take care of those matters which could be confrontational. Many times the armed security team would not show, so Deputy Dawg decided to take matters into his own hand instead of calling the cops. I had to stay clear of him at times even though he was my partner and we were to protect each other. So I had a choice to make and I decided to leave.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Black People Duped

Black People Duped | CNS News

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

AL! Where are you?

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/03/06/police-release-surveillance-video-of-bowery-assault

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Jessie! Where are you?

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023040983_greenwoodsuspectxml.html

 

[Justifiable_Rebel]

The media pushed this case to cause more unwanted racial tension between blacks and whites. (Divide & conquer)

I take neither side because I don't know what really went down that night. Its funny seeing all these blacks instantly side with Travon (my family members & friends included) just because he was black just like they did with Obama back in 2008. It was also funny watching those hypocrite Rappers who promote the gangsta/thug/scarface lifestyle also try to preach about how wrong Zimmerman was and how could he take the "INNOCENT" life of a young black male when they themselves make music about killing & devaluing a black life.

I'm black by the way but I see threw the bull.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Great viewpoint. Obviously Zimmerman is a troubled soul who acted foolishly. I certainly respect people who have a logical argument that walks through the events which occurred regardless of whether they feel Zimmerman was guilty of manslaughter or murder or not.

But then, that would be someone like yourself who would take the time to examine what happened and really qualify what happened and come to a perspective based on the facts not just side with the direction of your race like people do in prison.

If society is like prison where everyone simply sides with race, what does that say about society: that it's AS racist as the nation's prisons are!

And that's a very bad reflection on our society if it's true.

I have a problem with the mainstream media and African Americans trying to portray Zimmerman as a racist Caucasian when he's half Jewish and half Hispanic and then seeking to use that as the basis for an argument that the real problem for African American males is racist Caucasians.

African American males have REAL problems that don't have anything to do with Zimmerman. The number one problem is they don't have godly fathers to raise them!

When African American leaders stop trying to support Hispanic illegal immigration to take away jobs from African Americans and care more about the fatherless problem than the Zimmerman case, then I'll care two cents about what they have to say.

Until then, they are FAILING African American males badly in my opinion.

My posts here showing black on white violence is solely to portray the problem of fatherlessness and joblessness amongst African American males as the two GREATEST problems they face and what is happening as a result of those problems because black leaders have completely ignored the two greatest problems and, in fact, are working against solving them!

That's where I am coming from. I'm disgusted at a leadership that would fail their own people so badly on these two critical issues. EVERY black child needs a GOOD father while growing up and a good job once they are grown. Period.

When Al and Jessie and the DC beltway black politicians whom are obsessed on amnesty and Zimmerman refocus on those two issues AS THEIR HIGHEST PRIORITIES then I'll stop calling them hypocritical ignorant fools. Period. You have my word on that.

And I'm Caucasian.

The media pushed this case to cause more unwanted racial tension between blacks and whites. (Divide & conquer)

I take neither side because I don't know what really went down that night. Its funny seeing all these blacks instantly side with Travon (my family members & friends included) just because he was black just like they did with Obama back in 2008. It was also funny watching those hypocrite Rappers who promote the gangsta/thug/scarface lifestyle also try to preach about how wrong Zimmerman was and how could he take the "INNOCENT" life of a young black male when they themselves make music about killing & devaluing a black life.

I'm black by the way but I see threw the bull.

 

[SonInMe]

I would only disagree in this.

The major problem in the african american community is not fatherless kids. Its the reason for fatherless kids.

Liberalism. When will this community wake up and realize the politics they support is what is harming them?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

First, there's all kinds of liberalism. Look at classical liberalism: Classical liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Classical liberalism is a political philosophy and ideology belonging to liberalism in which primary emphasis is placed on securing the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government."

Obviously, you're not talking about classical liberals of whom several million exist in the Democrat party. And up until the mid-sixties, the GOP was flush with African American voters.

The elephant in the room that you're omitting altogether is that neo-conservatism is responsible for driving "free" trade into reality which Ross Perot rightly pointed out cost Americans an enormous number of jobs.

By 2010, 29 million full time jobs were lost just to Mexico.

Global Economic Intersection

So don't tell me that modern liberalism/progressive liberalism is solely responsible for the state of black Americans because it's obvious that it is NOT.

Most African American blue collar jobs have been OFFSHORED and OUTSOURCED to foreign workers as a result of the era of free trade which Bush Sr. and the neo-conservatives (though NOT the paleo-conservatives who rejected free trade) drove off the table into reality.

Most Democrats voted against NAFTA though a sizeable minority acted codependently toward it as did Bill Clinton. And it's true that Obama expanded it with his Korean FTA and is continuing in the tradition of Bush with the TPP. So yes the Democrats are now as responsible as the Republicans for expanding free trade BUT free trade wouldn't even exist if not for the neo-conservatives who drove it into reality as their flagship political objective under Bush Sr..

Turn the party equation around for immigration which Democrats have driven in the same manner but understand the last big amnesty was signed into law by Ronald Reagan with minority Republican support.

The point being that when neo-conservatives gave almost all African American male jobs in the private sector to foreign born workers without replacing them it left an employment vacuum in the black community. There is nothing remotely close to a material number of full time good paying jobs for them anymore. What did you think was going to happen when you voted for the Bushs to hand over their jobs to foreign born workers?

Did you think that was a "solution" for the black community? You took all their jobs from them and gave them to foreign workers and then blamed liberalism for what ensued.

It's ignorant to do that soninme. You're acting like an ignoramus when you do that.

Take responsibility for the consequences of your own voting behavior. You voted to rob these people of their jobs and hand them over to foreign born workers and now they don't have any.

So what do you expect them to do? Plant a money tree in the backyard?

Money trees don't exist. They are fiction. So they began to do whatever they could to survive. They had to transition to the Democrat party to get the social services to survive because you took all their jobs away from them and gave them to foreign workers and now they don't have any or the prospect of ever having a good paying full time job like their grandfathers did in their lifetime!

That said, of course modern liberalism and progressivism hurt the black family in America. I can tell you how and why. But first you have to acknowledge the devastation that neo-conservative "free trade" did to African American male's ability to earn in this nation.

I would only disagree in this.

The major problem in the african american community is not fatherless kids. Its the reason for fatherless kids.

Liberalism. When will this community wake up and realize the politics they support is what is harming them?

 

[SonInMe]

Outsourcing isn't a huge job loss problem unless you work as a call solicitor.

I could care less about Nafta.

Liberalism is what liberalism is no matter how you slice and dice the aspects of it.

Liberalism in practice is this...voting for or supporting ideologies without fact, foundation or study because it makes you feel good.

African americans vote 90% for democrats, 95% for our current president. The liberal influence upon their community has been dramatic, from being a strong family orientated culture to a thug culture embracing illegitimacy, abortion and victimhood mentalities.

Trayvon Martin and his portrayal as a saint is nothing short of blind racism fostered by liberal ideologies. The situation was blown out of proportion by liberal politicians and news agencies to foster their anti-gun and racist positions.

Zimmerman is not saint either, but he isn't the devil incarnate as well. To be honest, in my youth we woulda called Zimmerman white trash, not because he is caucasian but because he is not a great human example.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Of course you don't care because it didn't rob you of your job and leave you unable to find a suitable new one. If it had, then you would care. Then you would understand.

But since it didn't, you're going to stick in your head in the sand like an ostrich and pretend that tens of millions of African American males who lost their jobs and couldn't find suitable replacement jobs because the neo-conservative driven "free" trade that began with NAFTA moved them out of the nation and filled the ones that remained with foreign born workers so they could no longer care for their families are really victims of liberal welfare.

You are obviously ideologically drive to the extent that reality no longer matters. I'd say that you're just like the DC Beltway African American black caucus legislature that asserts the only way to help African Americans is to offer amnesty to 20 million illegal aliens so African Americans have no access even to that low hanging fruit.

You sound as crazy as the very people you blame.

Obviously, the unemployed black male with no job prospect whatsoever who is being tossed from his home by a wife on welfare that has to remove him in order to meet welfare requirements because there's no breadwinner in the home anymore thanks to YOUR neo-conservative politicians that YOU voted for who SENT their jobs overseas and ensured any remaining at home were filled by foreign born immigrants even to the extent that the bottom of the barrel was picked clean by illegals have only two options left: crime or homeless aluminum can picker upper.

Since you don't care about the consequences of what you created for these people, you have NO moral ground to complain about the consequences. Got it?

And don't look at me because I didn't create this problem. I'm an independent voter. I didn't vote for Bush or Obama. My candidates are independent candidates who want to FIX things not make them worse.

Outsourcing isn't a huge job loss problem unless you work as a call solicitor.

I could care less about Nafta.

Liberalism is what liberalism is no matter how you slice and dice the aspects of it.

Liberalism in practice is this...voting for or supporting ideologies without fact, foundation or study because it makes you feel good.

African americans vote 90% for democrats, 95% for our current president. The liberal influence upon their community has been dramatic, from being a strong family orientated culture to a thug culture embracing illegitimacy, abortion and victimhood mentalities.

Trayvon Martin and his portrayal as a saint is nothing short of blind racism fostered by liberal ideologies. The situation was blown out of proportion by liberal politicians and news agencies to foster their anti-gun and racist positions.

Zimmerman is not saint either, but he isn't the devil incarnate as well. To be honest, in my youth we woulda called Zimmerman white trash, not because he is caucasian but because he is not a great human example.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Oh and to correct your false assertion that only call center jobs were offshored nothing could be further from the truth.

A broad spectrum of job types were lost beginning with those blue collar labour-intensive parts of production jobs in the manufacturing and industrial sector that African American males relied on until NAFTA began to send them abroad.

But also lost later were many blue collar and white collar jobs in the capital- or skill-intensive production sector.

All of which created a ripple effect that closed down small businesses in the communities that depended on these jobs besides the jobs actually offshored.

Now add in the monopoly capitalism of Wal-Mart, etc... and Main Street USA became a ghost town in these communities.

Now add in foreign born workers taking half of all new jobs growth in the USA during this time (see CIS reports) which were but a pittance compared to the jobs lost AND paid a fraction of what the jobs lost used to pay.

So in addition to the scale effect of offshoring, they also experienced almost no job replacement, AND a massive decrease in compensation for what few jobs were available to them in the private sector.

Just to make it clear to you.

 

[SonInMe]

I am a conservative. I support competition and am against taxation.

I could care less about Nafta.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

You're not connecting the dots. Neo-conservatives removed competition from the U.S. domestic labor market for tens of millions of American workers when they removed their jobs from the U.S. through the instrument of "free" trade.

There are more than 2.4 billion people just in China and India. If we offer them access to EVERY job in the U.S. (a nation of only 317 million people), which they will happily do on average for $3 a day, do you support that?

That's competition so it must be good right? To give every job in the U.S. to a foreign worker for $3 a day or force every American worker to labor for only $3 a day is a GOOD thing in your mind.

Just not in reality. And that's the problem. There is a clear and observable quantifiable disconnect between your ideology and reality as wide as the Grand Canyon.

I am a conservative. I support competition and am against taxation.

I could care less about Nafta.

 

[1still_waters]

There was absolutely no reason that Trayvon had to be shot. There is no rule that says you have to get out of your vehicle and follow someone in your neighborhood who "looks suspicious".

Trayvon had just as much a right to defend himself against a suspicious looking man who was following him, as George had to defend himself against someone attacking him.

it's so contradictory to lambaste Trayvon for standing his ground against the suspicious guy who was following him, while at the same time supporting Zimmerman who created his own self defense scenario.

Either way, the whole incident didn't need to happen in the first place, and shouldn't have happened at all.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Hold up. Is defending oneself defined as taking it upon oneself to launch a violent assault on another who has not raised a hand to hurt you?

Do I have a right to launch an assault upon and viciously beat everyone who follows me? Is THAT self defense?

My law dictionary defines self defense in this context: "the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor."

Not, I'm not under attack and nobody's threatened to hurt me or lift a finger to hurt me but they are following me for some reason so I have a right to viciously assault them.

Trayvon could have defended himself simply by walking into his apartment and closing the door and locking it.

He could then, if he wished, have called the police to report Zimmerman if he felt so strongly that Zimmerman was a threat to his personal safety.

Trayvon had just as much a right to defend himself against a suspicious looking man who was following him, as George had to defend himself against someone attacking him.

 

[1still_waters]

Hold up. Is defending oneself defined as taking it upon oneself to launch a violent assault on another who has not raised a hand to hurt you?

Do I have a right to launch an assault upon and viciously beat everyone who follows me? Is THAT self defense?

My law dictionary defines self defense in this context: "the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor."

Not, I'm not under attack and nobody's threatened to hurt me or lift a finger to hurt me but they are following me for some reason so I have a right to viciously assault them.

Trayvon could have defended himself simply by walking into his apartment and closing the door and locking it.

He could then, if he wished, have called the police to report Zimmerman if he felt so strongly that Zimmerman was a threat to his personal safety.

Was Trayvon hurting anyone in the neighborhood?
What warranted a man with a gun to start stalking him down the sidewalk?

It goes both ways.

It seems Zimmerman is the only one allowed to feel threatened based on personal feelings, yet Trayvon is the one who was just walking down the sidewalk minding his own business. Why isn't he allowed to feel threatened too?

 

[1still_waters]

Hold up. Is defending oneself defined as taking it upon oneself to launch a violent assault on another who has not raised a hand to hurt you?

Do I have a right to launch an assault upon and viciously beat everyone who follows me? Is THAT self defense?

My law dictionary defines self defense in this context: "the use of reasonable force to protect oneself or members of the family from bodily harm from the attack of an aggressor."

Not, I'm not under attack and nobody's threatened to hurt me or lift a finger to hurt me but they are following me for some reason so I have a right to viciously assault them.

Trayvon could have defended himself simply by walking into his apartment and closing the door and locking it.

He could then, if he wished, have called the police to report Zimmerman if he felt so strongly that Zimmerman was a threat to his personal safety.

The double standard in this situation is glaring.

Zimmerman sees a guy walking down the sidewalk, feels a threat, and he's allowed to grab his gun, get out of his vehicle and pursue him.

Trayvon sees a guy with a gun following him down the sidewalk, feels threatened, and he's told he has to run away from the perceived threat.

George didn't even feel personally threatened by Trayvon, because George was in his own vehicle.

Trayvon had a legit reason to actually feel threatened because a guy with a gun was stalking him down the sidewalk.

Yet Trayvon should have ran away, and George shouldn't have ran away?

This is what I mean, this whole thing shouldn't have happened in the first place.

If Trayvon should have ran away from his perceived threat, then Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle and stayed away from his perceived threat too.