Repentance Vs Eternal Security

[eternally-gratefull]

really?

just two went into canaan...
and I didnt say that God did not complete what he wanted...
but we talking about possibility of loosing grace because of disobedience
and necessity of repentance
and humility

No one who left egypt was promised enterance into the promised land. Only the NATION was ever made this promise to.

God gave it to Abraham, Issac and Jacob, yet they never possessed it.

Think about what your using to try to prove your point. And you may see it does not fit what your saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just like my kid....he gets out of my will and I take something away until he comes back online if you will...God chastens every son that He receives and yet that does not change the fact of their (sonship) if you will....

I can just hope and pray all these people who think God will kick them out of his family if he does not do what he says, are better parents to their kids. or else we will have alot of homeless, familyness kids out in the streets!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you really think you might disobey your way into losing salvation?

But if the person has truly been born again, then s/he will persevere. Romans 8.38-39, Philippians 1.6

Those who live and die in disobedience never had God's salvation in the first place.

As jesus said he will say, Depart from me, FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

no, but you and I have a free will. I can turn my back on Christ and stop living for Him. Gods grace is not forced upon us . Sadly, many reject that grace.

I can turn my back and stop walking by the Spirit - letting the Spirit guide me . . . does that "unsave" me? See - I have never stopped loving God but I have at times walked away. During that time - did God remove his holy Spirit from me, stop loving me or did he wait patiently for me to turn around? I know the answer . . . do you? I thank my God that He was there waiting for me each time - I just ask for His loving forgiveness and there He was. Sorta reminds me of the prodigal son.

If there are sins that we forget to ask forgiveness - as long as my foundation is Christ, I will still be saved:

2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Cor. 3:12-15 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved: yet so as by fire.

I relate the gold, silver, precious stones are the word of God and all works done in our body that are good, for those metals will not burn. The "worldly" things are wood, hay, stubble, works done in our body that are bad for they will burn. I may suffer loss of reward but I am saved.

No one is condoning sin, nor not asking forgiveness when we mess up - we are saying that no matter what we are God's child - born of incorruptible seed by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever. It is Christ's death and resurrection that has redeemed us, made us righteous, that has sanctified and justified us, - nothing else.

God's grace and mercy are not forced upon us they are freely given through our faith in his Son.

 

[guestno2]

I have no doubt in question of my salvation, however in your case I am not sure at all, how can I be? I don’t know you….and I had always problem recognize an angry man as my brother… (this applies to EG only)


Also, there are too many examples in bible teaches us against carelessness and negligence


Woe to them that are at ease in Zion .. (amos)


I was raise in fear of God (not bad fear, but that good one, don’t know the correct word for it)


Again, I know who is my Lord and God and I know that He never let me go (I know that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth .. ) but it doesn’t mean, that I will agree with you in case of repentance (daily) and in case of sovereignty of God in case of salvation, so you telling me that God can not disclaim somebody… for me it is same as telling me that God is not God.

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

be blessed

 

[Alligator]

I can turn my back and stop walking by the Spirit - letting the Spirit guide me . . . does that "unsave" me? See - I have never stopped loving God but I have at times walked away. During that time - did God remove his holy Spirit from me, stop loving me or did he wait patiently for me to turn around? I know the answer . . . do you? I thank my God that He was there waiting for me each time - I just ask for His loving forgiveness and there He was. Sorta reminds me of the prodigal son.

If there are sins that we forget to ask forgiveness - as long as my foundation is Christ, I will still be saved:

2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1 Cor. 3:12-15 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved: yet so as by fire.

I relate the gold, silver, precious stones are the word of God and all works done in our body that are good, for those metals will not burn. The "worldly" things are wood, hay, stubble, works done in our body that are bad for they will burn. I may suffer loss of reward but I am saved.

No one is condoning sin, nor not asking forgiveness when we mess up - we are saying that no matter what we are God's child - born of incorruptible seed by the word of God which liveth and abideth for ever. It is Christ's death and resurrection that has redeemed us, made us righteous, that has sanctified and justified us, - nothing else.

God's grace and mercy are not forced upon us they are freely given through our faith in his Son.

God loves all of us and He does not wish that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance II Pet. 3:9. But I feel sure you will agree that this doesn't mean that all will be saved. The prodigal son is a good example as you suggested . I have no doubt God welcome His child back no matter how long it took or no matter how many sins me committed. What if the prodigal son never returned showing he had repented? We know from scriptures like Luke 13:3 that repentance is necessary for salvation.
I John 1:7 is a very telling passage. IF we walk in the light Jesus' blood cleans us from all sin. I think you and I know if we are are walking in the light. This is not saying that if we, for example, that if we forget one sin and don't confess it, we are lost. What we should fear is if we return to willful and habitual sin like we did before we became a Christian. See Heb. 10:26-27.

 

[cfultz3]

then we are under law not grace. period.

Actually scripture says those truly born of God can not do the things you state. For God is in them. And they have been shown Gods love, and his chastening will not allow it.

Something to consider,

What need is there for chastisement if there is no offense? For God to even flog us, if necessary, if He is not offended by a bad behavior?

 

[cfultz3]

In addition to the one who stole who is now under grace, he comes under the conviction of the Spirit and should restore back what he has stolen (and then some). If he does not he will grieve the Spirit and will not be able to grow in grace until that is taken care of. He does this by faith in response to the conviction he received from the Spirit.

What if he never hearkens to that conviction of the Spirit, but continues walking in contradiction?

Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;​

 

[cfultz3]

The Lord's obedience was in the context that He is sinless.

Our obedience is 'the obedience of faith' (Romans 1.5; Romans 16.26).

What is "the obedience to the faith"? (Romans 1:5)

What is "faith's attentive hearkening? (Romans 16:26)

 

[faroukfarouk]

I have no doubt in question of my salvation, however in your case I am not sure at all, how can I be? I don’t know you….and I had always problem recognize an angry man as my brother… (this applies to EG only)


Also, there are too many examples in bible teaches us against carelessness and negligence


Woe to them that are at ease in Zion .. (amos)


I was raise in fear of God (not bad fear, but that good one, don’t know the correct word for it)


Again, I know who is my Lord and God and I know that He never let me go (I know that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth .. ) but it doesn’t mean, that I will agree with you in case of repentance (daily) and in case of sovereignty of God in case of salvation, so you telling me that God can not disclaim somebody… for me it is same as telling me that God is not God.

Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

be blessed

2 Timothy 2.19 is a good guide.

 

[cfultz3]

You can't un-do the work God has done in you. If you could then you would be God. Because you would be more Powerful than Him.

Which is what you are saying, although I doubt you realize it.

I've heard people say that a person could give back their salvation. This is not possible. It would be like un-knowing something. Un-seeing things. Once you know, once you have seen you can't undo it.

Hebrews 13:5-6
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

How true is that highlighted statement. Never once did God leave or forsake those in the wilderness. But, just as Adam and Eve, they, through the deceitfulness of their heart, walked away from God. Although being led to the Promised Land, their heart was stubborn and they refuse to hearken to the Voice of the Lord.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing (desist, withdraw, desert) from the living God.​

 

[cfultz3]

Matthew 6:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Do these words come back void after we are saved? Have you ever prayed that prayer?

That is about putting away your will and embracing His Will.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
[SUP] [/SUP][SUP]26 [/SUP]A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

I greatly love these verses and agree that God puts the desire to do His will upon a saved person's heart. But, what about those angels whose existence was to do that will, but nevertheless, rejected that will on their own accord?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Something to consider,

What need is there for chastisement if there is no offense? For God to even flog us, if necessary, if He is not offended by a bad behavior?

true. And who is not chastened?

 

[cfultz3]

true. And who is not chastened?

One who is not a child is not chastised by his parent.

I guess I am asking, what need is there for the Father to chastise His child? What Scriptural purpose does it have?

Just wondering, what example are we giving of a 'child (a person being taught)' with a persistent stubborn heart and the final consequence of not hearkening to the guidance of his 'parent'?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One who is not a child is not chastised by his parent.

I guess I am asking, what need is there for the Father to chastise His child? What Scriptural purpose does it have?

The same as discipline does for a child. Imagine if God just allowed us to continue to do the things which would harm us, and never disciplined us? We would be like the world never knowing wrong from right.

Just wondering, what example are we giving of a 'child (a person being taught)' with a persistent stubborn heart and the final consequence of not hearkening to the guidance of his 'parent'?

Maybe they do something once to often, and end up killing themselves doing it?

 

[cfultz3]

The same as discipline does for a child.

True. It is to keep them on the path you, as a parent, desire them to be on.

Imagine if God just allowed us to continue to do the things which would harm us, and never disciplined us? We would be like the world never knowing wrong from right.

True again. And as a child, we learn from discipline. And that discipline teaches us that the thing that we are being chastised for is considered to be in opposition to the will of the one chastising us. There is no other reason, besides for an improper behavior, a parent would chastise us.

Maybe they do something once to often, and end up killing themselves doing it?

I think you misunderstood here. Will you reread this portion?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

True. It is to keep them on the path you, as a parent, desire them to be on.

Yes. But some children still do not listen and repeat the same stuff do they not?

True again. And as a child, we learn from discipline. And that discipline teaches us that the thing that we are being chastised for is considered to be in opposition to the will of the one chastising us. There is no other reason, besides for an improper behavior, a parent would chastise us.

Sometimes discipline is not for bad behavior, but as a teaching aid. even though we do not deserve it. But it causes suffering. would you agree??

I think you misunderstood here. Will you reread this portion?

I guess I do not understand, could you ask again in a different way?

 

[Bookends]

God loves all of us and He does not wish that any should perish, but that all would come to repentance II Pet. 3:9. But I feel sure you will agree that this doesn't mean that all will be saved. The prodigal son is a good example as you suggested . I have no doubt God welcome His child back no matter how long it took or no matter how many sins me committed. What if the prodigal son never returned showing he had repented? We know from scriptures like Luke 13:3 that repentance is necessary for salvation.
I John 1:7 is a very telling passage. IF we walk in the light Jesus' blood cleans us from all sin. I think you and I know if we are are walking in the light. This is not saying that if we, for example, that if we forget one sin and don't confess it, we are lost. What we should fear is if we return to willful and habitual sin like we did before we became a Christian. See Heb. 10:26-27.

If one returns to willful and habitual sin and stays in that condition, then his/her first words of repentance wasn't genuine to begin with.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If one returns to willful and habitual sin and stays in that condition, then his/her first words of repentance wasn't genuine to begin with.

true!

2 Peter 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

 

[cfultz3]

Yes. But some children still do not listen and repeat the same stuff do they not?

Yes, some children are stubborn.

Sometimes discipline is not for bad behavior, but as a teaching aid. even though we do not deserve it. But it causes suffering. would you agree??

Causing 'suffering' is what I mean also. I agree with you that not all 'discipline' is for bad behavior and can be used as a teaching aid. The focal point of that statement was 'the purpose of disciplining/tutoring a child'. We discipline/tutor our children to show them the path we desire for them to be on. What happens, then, if they never learn our ways, but remain stubborn, always being lead astray by their heart?

I guess I do not understand, could you ask again in a different way?

What Scriptural example are we giving of a person with a persistent stubborn heart who refuse to be taught a certain path and the final consequence of not hearkening (hear and obey) to the guidance of the one attempting to show that person what path to walk?