Prenuptial agreement

[Elizabeth619]

Ladies and Gentleman, an example of the logical fallacy of appealing to extremes.

I understand that you are educated, and you want everyone to know that you are simply by some of the remarks you have made throughout this forum. By the way I am proud you are so smart. GOOD FOR YOU! Yet from my understanding this is a thread asking personal views and opinions. If you do not like my views that is fine. I don't post things to meet others approval, and I am glad you consider being called "pompous" a compliment, because you sure have proved you are many many times.

I do not agree with prenups. Therefore I will never get one.

I do however know what it is like to be a woman in her 30s with a child, unemployed and the father runs off. I know how child support works, and I know how trusting in the legal system for anything doesn't guarantee the results you may want or desire. It doesn't matter if it is a legal document before marriage or after. In my case I was never married, but the father still had the responsibility to his child. I also know how playing the victim role in tough situations never helps anything. When an individual accepts that bad things can and will happen in their life and learns to move forward and TRUST IN GOD AND NOT THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO HELP THEM things turn out well.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I've had Christian friends whose wives filed no fault divorces against them. These men did not commit adultery, they did not do anything wrong. Their wives got involved with other men and filed for divorce.

These guys ended up renting rooms in other people's homes and became beasts of burden whose paychecks were docked to pay for their wives and children's alimony and support.

In many cases, the wives moved in their new boy friends right into the house the now divorced ex-husband continued making payments on. The boy friends drove around in the car the ex-husband made payments on. The ex-husband got to see his children twice a month if he was lucky. The boy friend became the new "dad" and the children were poisoned against the ex-husband by the ex-wife and her new boyfriend.

Who wants to live in poverty in a rented room working one's fingers to the bone year after year after year to pay for an ex-wife and her boyfriend who turn their children against him.

Divorce law is so lopsided now against males, and so many marriages end in divorce now, that a great many males won't marry at all without one.

People don't want to throw themselves off cliffs in the hopes they'll float safely to the ground. I don't see anything in scripture that says one cannot strengthen their position with a marriage contract to counteract the lopsided result that will result if you are a working man should a divorce occur.

Along the line with Grace's thread about bank accounts, I would like to know your opinion about Prenuptial agreement?
Would you do it? Yes or No and why?

I'll start:
I myself won't do it because in my mind if I'm starting a life with a man n' I don't trust him from the beginning, then why am I getting into this marriage covenant with him to begin with?? But that's my own personal opinion.

 

[biscuit]

I've had Christian friends whose wives filed no fault divorces against them. These men did not commit adultery, they did not do anything wrong. Their wives got involved with other men and filed for divorce.

These guys ended up renting rooms in other people's homes and became beasts of burden whose paychecks were docked to pay for their wives and children's alimony and support.

In many cases, the wives moved in their new boy friends right into the house the now divorced ex-husband continued making payments on. The boy friends drove around in the car the ex-husband made payments on. The ex-husband got to see his children twice a month if he was lucky. The boy friend became the new "dad" and the children were poisoned against the ex-husband by the ex-wife and her new boyfriend.

Who wants to live in poverty in a rented room working one's fingers to the bone year after year after year to pay for an ex-wife and her boyfriend who turn their children against him.

Divorce law is so lopsided now against males, and so many marriages end in divorce now, that a great many males won't marry at all without one.

People don't want to throw themselves off cliffs in the hopes they'll float safely to the ground. I don't see anything in scripture that says one cannot strengthen their position with a marriage contract to counteract the lopsided result that will result if you are a working man should a divorce occur.

One of the benefits growing up in the 1960's and watching the various Movements, was being able to watch both men & women being transformed into insensitive creatures toward one another due to a political corrupt system that favors one gender over another for a new bloc of votes. I watched an old system that worked, replaced by another that is basically destructive & devastating to both genders. I was fortunate not to fall for the new system which basically can destroy a man overnight due to no fault on his own. I came out of all of this in one piece with no scars because I wasn't going to be played for a fool like many of my male friends and men in general.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Because of the large percentage of women that falsely claim infidelity, rape, and abuse in divorce court: I would never agree to such a clause.

Women have learned that making false allegations of domestic violence is a quick, cheap and easy way to get rid of their husbands, get most of his assets and exclusive custody of the kids as well.

A man would be a fool to set himself up for that by signing any contract that had such a clause in it.

Part 1: DVI The Inside Story Part 1 - YouTube
Part 2: DVI The Inside Story Part 2 - YouTube

I also want a cheating clause.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I saw the writing on the wall and simply opted out. I dedicated my life to God, obtaining college degrees and the corresponding education, and working full time during the day.

I never married and so never had to go through the very common but very difficult process of divorce that 50% of all first marriages end in with subsequent second and third marriages statistically ending in divorce at a much higher percentage.

And, at my age, single women are almost all divorced so fit into those statistically higher categories for divorce.

I'm a sane person, not a crazy one.

One of the benefits growing up in the 1960's and watching the various Movements, was being able to watch both men & women being transformed into insensitive creatures toward one another due to a political corrupt system that favors one gender over another for a new bloc of votes. I watched an old system that worked, replaced by another that is basically destructive & devastating to both genders. I was fortunate not to fall for the new system which basically can destroy a man overnight due to no fault on his own. I came out of all of this in one piece with no scars because I wasn't going to be played for a fool like many of my male friends and men in general.

 

[biscuit]

Because of the large percentage of women that falsely claim infidelity, rape, and abuse in divorce court: I would never agree to such a clause.

Women have learned that making false allegations of domestic violence is a quick, cheap and easy way to get rid of their husbands, get most of his assets and exclusive custody of the kids as well.

A man would be a fool to set himself up for that by signing any contract that had such a clause in it.

Part 1: DVI The Inside Story Part 1 - YouTube
Part 2: DVI The Inside Story Part 2 - YouTube

The best solution for American men who wish to marry, is to find a woman who is 'old schooled' backed by her mother. In 2014, this is a difficult task with the best option being an American or foreign woman with those values. I remember in 1966 there was a argument between a Puerto Rican couple, and the husband asked the mother to intervene. The mother & daughter argued intensely with the mother slapping the daughter rather hard. What was the arguing about? the daughter challenging her husband's authority to rule the household. I know Puerto Ricans are not foreigners but it shows that some of them believe in the old school. There are old schooled American women but they are a dying breed. Any American male that marries a woman outside the 'old school' tradition, is playing with fire. Pre-nup is just a bandage and seldom works because many women will challenge it in court.

 

[christian74]

I didn't read the entire thread and just wanna say I'm against it right off the bat - and yes, I also saw and learned how there are certain situations where doing so would be a wise thing to do.

As for me, my answer, that I'm against, is based on the belief that marriage should base on certain things including trust.
To me, signing a prenup implies or even acknowledges the possibility of divorce - that it is possible for us to get divorce, therefore, let us prepare for that unfortunate situation just in case. And personally I really really hate that 'just in case' part. If I am really wealthy and she is not and we get divorce after one year and she gets 1/2 of my asset by failing to have her sign up a prenup, then so be it - I just can't bring myself to ask her to sign a prenup because it's essentially saying "honey I love you so much and that's why I want to spend the rest of my life with you and by the way, could you sign this for me sweetie just in case?" Not gonna happen. I don't even want to acknowledge that there is possibility of us getting divorce when we haven't even gotten married. Yes, this could very well be a mindset of a single man who was never married in his life. But again, I will take full consequences and will not go through it.

If she or her family is really wealthy and I'm asked to sign up a prenup, I will ask her or her family to do whatever it takes so she or they don't need to ask me to sign anything, i.e., getting rid of her asset or giving it away, because I will take care of her - I will do whatever it takes to take care of her. You know, I'm very easy-going and am not stubborn at all but this is one thing I cannot compromise not only as a person but as a husband who has a duty to make sure that the marriage begins with other many things including trust. I honestly believe that signing one would put a wedge on the trust between spouses and I disagree with some of the analogies because signing a prenup, which definitely gives a peace of mind just in case and can be a smart thing but at the same time it is likely to plant a seed of doubt in the heart of signing spouse and not to mention how it can hurt the signing spouse's heart.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh (*a long sigh)

Yeah, probably it's the single guy mentality that just went little crazy here.
But you know what, I refuse, I refuse to even acknowledge the possibility of getting a divorce even it means paying the full consequences and being foolish for not taking a preventive measure because I will give everything I have for her, just like Christ loved the church, and therefore, will have no regret whatsoever. No regret whatsoever and I mean it.

Either way, like someone said earlier, I hope and pray that none of you would have to go through any of 'I should've asked her to sign that' or 'I'm glad I had him sign it' situation. Somehow I'm little depressed.

 

[Hashe]

There are many legal reasons for pre-nups. Not just for protection of assets. It depends on the law in the country.
In some countries, like South Africa, you are crazy if you don't get a pre-nup because the marriage law is so stupid.

 

[biscuit]

There are many legal reasons for pre-nups. Not just for protection of assets. It depends on the law in the country.
In some countries, like South Africa, you are crazy if you don't get a pre-nup because the marriage law is so stupid.

Prenup has a 'nasty' ring to it in the Christian world. It would be easier if Christian men & women would be 'highly selective' in choosing their mates. I wouldn't be surprised if most Christians spent more time shopping for computer gadgets than they do searching for a lifetime partner.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Prenup has a 'nasty' ring to it in the Christian world. It would be easier if Christian men & women would be 'highly selective' in choosing their mates. I wouldn't be surprised if most Christians spent more time shopping for computer gadgets than they do searching for a lifetime partner.

From a worldly standpoint I agree that prenups are a good idea, but like you when it comes to a Godly couple that actually respects the concept of marriage then it shouldn't be considered. I think people forget that marriage isn't just a legal agreement. It is an agreement a couple makes with God most of all.

 

[biscuit]

From a worldly standpoint I agree that prenups are a good idea, but like you when it comes to a Godly couple that actually respects the concept of marriage then it shouldn't be considered. I think people forget that marriage isn't just a legal agreement. It is an agreement a couple makes with God most of all.

Amen ********

 

[Hashe]

Without a pre-nup in South Africa a woman can do nothing financially without the signed permission of her husband. Perhaps some (wrongly) find that 'biblical' but I find that situation a little disturbing. I'm not sure that has much to do with 'being worldly'.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

While I live in California and not a single friend of mine that was served no fault divorce papers would ever consider marrying again without an iron clad prenup.

Understand that the National Center for Health Statistics which bases it's reports on actual records not surveys states the percentage of women who initiated divorce proceedings in the U.S. has reached almost 80%. Only about 20% of men file for divorce presently. And for separations, the percentage is even higher.

And I hear you biscuit on conservative women with old fashioned Christian values. They are like GOLD in this environment and if I ever met one and married her I would treat her as such... with a signed prenup, of course. .

Of course, in many states, prenups don't carry much weight with the divorce judge which is yet another reason to have one in those states.

Without a pre-nup in South Africa a woman can do nothing financially without the signed permission of her husband. Perhaps some (wrongly) find that 'biblical' but I find that situation a little disturbing. I'm not sure that has much to do with 'being worldly'.

 

[biscuit]

And I hear you biscuit on conservative women with old fashioned Christian values. They are like GOLD in this environment and if I ever met one and married her I would treat her as such... with a signed prenup, of course. .

Having a conservative mother-in-law who thinks highly of you is also a very good "insurance policy" in keeping your new wife in line.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'm sure that works well for Muslims... lol. These liberated Western women though ... not so much.

And I hear you biscuit on conservative women with old fashioned Christian values. They are like GOLD in this environment and if I ever met one and married her I would treat her as such... with a signed prenup, of course. .

Having a conservative mother-in-law who thinks highly of you is also a very good "insurance policy" in keeping your new wife in line.

 

[Misty77]

Ack! We're being invaded by the Bible Discussion forum! Pull up the draw bridge!!!

 

[biscuit]

I'm sure that works well for Muslims... lol. These liberated Western women though ... not so much.

I guess Hollywood is Hollywood ... but Southern women are generally the opposite of Western women. Women are somewhat different in all four corners of the country. I am sure you remember the Beach Boys' song California Girls.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I saw one of my friend's wives cry and throw fits over the prenup initially but he stayed his course and in the end she signed because he really is a great Christian man with wealth who had a FAIR prenup ensuring that she and her children would receive a fair settlement in the event of a divorce.

But there certainly are other financial instruments besides prenups. As Nelson Rockefeller said, “The secret to success is to own nothing and control everything.” .

Men can avoid the prenup altogether (and the social and cultural stigma associated with them) simply by using the proper financial instruments such as the right trust, for example.

I understand that you are educated, and you want everyone to know that you are simply by some of the remarks you have made throughout this forum. By the way I am proud you are so smart. GOOD FOR YOU! Yet from my understanding this is a thread asking personal views and opinions. If you do not like my views that is fine. I don't post things to meet others approval, and I am glad you consider being called "pompous" a compliment, because you sure have proved you are many many times.

I do not agree with prenups. Therefore I will never get one.

I do however know what it is like to be a woman in her 30s with a child, unemployed and the father runs off. I know how child support works, and I know how trusting in the legal system for anything doesn't guarantee the results you may want or desire. It doesn't matter if it is a legal document before marriage or after. In my case I was never married, but the father still had the responsibility to his child. I also know how playing the victim role in tough situations never helps anything. When an individual accepts that bad things can and will happen in their life and learns to move forward and TRUST IN GOD AND NOT THE LEGAL SYSTEM TO HELP THEM things turn out well.

 

[just_monicat]

I guess Hollywood is Hollywood ... but Southern women are generally the opposite of Western women. Women are somewhat different in all four corners of the country. I am sure you remember the Beach Boys' song California Girls.

i'm constantly amazed at your ability to make such sweeping, wildly sterotypical and offensive statements about entire populations of women. isn't it just as possible that there are good christian women and worldly-valued women everywhere?

perhaps one ought to be careful using the acid-tripping wilson boys as your "female culture" touchstone : )

i'm a bit surprised it took you so long to find this thread. i had a feeling that wherever "poor helpless men" were being robbed of their fortune by evil women, you wouldn't be far behind.

instead, my observations have yielded the ugly truth that both men and women seem to lose in divorce proceedings. divorce doesn't seem to benefit anyone, financially or otherwise.

ironically, the one thing that could help to prevent either party from an unfair judgment is something you are against.

it makes me wonder whether that's because there would be no one for you to blame.

The best solution for American men who wish to marry, is to find a woman who is 'old schooled' backed by her mother. In 2014, this is a difficult task with the best option being an American or foreign woman with those values. I remember in 1966 there was a argument between a Puerto Rican couple, and the husband asked the mother to intervene. The mother & daughter argued intensely with the mother slapping the daughter rather hard. What was the arguing about? the daughter challenging her husband's authority to rule the household. I know Puerto Ricans are not foreigners but it shows that some of them believe in the old school. There are old schooled American women but they are a dying breed. Any American male that marries a woman outside the 'old school' tradition, is playing with fire. Pre-nup is just a bandage and seldom works because many women will challenge it in court.

i would never consider a mother who "slaps hard" her daughter as a woman to be lauded for her "values" and i can't help but wonder why you use her as an example. i guess since the violence was initiated upon the wife by the mother, as opposed to the husband, you find this acceptable?

is this your example of "old school" women? violent and argumentative? it sounds to me that "old school mother" is just the kind of stubborn and explosive woman that you men are supposed to be afraid of being taken to the cleaners by.

maybe that kind of "old school parenting" shouldn't be held up as the ideal, either.

i've read posts where you reference the "old school mothers/women". by your own description, your example doesn't sound like a woman of God.

perhaps both men and women should put away such notions in favor of seeking a Godly husband or wife.

 

[IloveyouGod]

I understand there are certain cases that needs this agreement and that some people here are comfortable doing it. But still, for me, I do not believe in it, neither will I do it. And if it came down to it, then my future husband n' I has to talk A LOT about it, n' we both have to be convinced, meaning, he has to give me a REALLY good explanation why he wants to do it because I don't have kids from another marriage n' I'm still not seeing ANY other "Good" reason for me to sign such agreement because like how Christian74 said, it will definitely create a seed of doubt in my heart and mind that won't be sitting well with me.

I've had Christian friends whose wives filed no fault divorces against them. These men did not commit adultery, they did not do anything wrong. Their wives got involved with other men and filed for divorce.

These guys ended up renting rooms in other people's homes and became beasts of burden whose paychecks were docked to pay for their wives and children's alimony and support.

In many cases, the wives moved in their new boy friends right into the house the now divorced ex-husband continued making payments on. The boy friends drove around in the car the ex-husband made payments on. The ex-husband got to see his children twice a month if he was lucky. The boy friend became the new "dad" and the children were poisoned against the ex-husband by the ex-wife and her new boyfriend.

Who wants to live in poverty in a rented room working one's fingers to the bone year after year after year to pay for an ex-wife and her boyfriend who turn their children against him.

Divorce law is so lopsided now against males, and so many marriages end in divorce now, that a great many males won't marry at all without one.

People don't want to throw themselves off cliffs in the hopes they'll float safely to the ground. I don't see anything in scripture that says one cannot strengthen their position with a marriage contract to counteract the lopsided result that will result if you are a working man should a divorce occur.