Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[MsLimpet]

there is one problem with your summation. Which trumps everything else you said. And makes this the last comment which will be said on this subject, unless you really want to discuss it, And not just tell us your view.

Paul tells Titus (and us) that it is the HS who does the washing. Not water, and not any man dunking us in water.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5 (KJV)

Notice again, Who does the washing..

OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

It does not say of men

It does not say of water

it does not say of water baptism.

IT SAYS OF (in other words, by) THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Titus 3:5 tells us that we are to undergo a washing of regeneration. Ephesians 5:26 tells us that we are to be washed and cleansed via the new birth. In 2 Corinthians 5:17 we are told, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” How do we get clean, remove our sins?

Acts 2:38 tells us—“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.” At what point are our sins removed? It is at the point that we go down into the water and
obey God in baptism. Acts 22:16 is so clear.

Sin separates us from God and stains our character. We must have our character cleansed by the blood of God’s Son in order for us to be right. When does that happen? Saul was told by Ananias, “Arise and be baptized,
and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Are we saying that baptism saves? We are saying that Jesus said that baptism saves. “He who believes and is baptized will be saved” (Mk. 16:16). Are you saying that to get into Christ we must be born again through baptism? That is what Paul, by inspiration, said. In Romans 6:1-4 Paul said that we are buried with Christ in baptism, and are raised to walk in newness of life. That is the new birth. We are born again by the Word of God (1 Pet. 1:25). God’s Word tells us to submit to God in baptism. What, then, does it mean to be born “by water and the Spirit”? How are we “born by the Spirit”? When we let the Bible define terms, it is so much simpler than when we let men do it.

In 1 Peter 1:23 we find a commentary on how we are born by the Spirit. We are “born again by the word of God, which lives and endures forever.” The Holy Spirit inspired God’s Word. Jesus said, “When He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth” (Jn. 16:13). The Holy Spirit did that in the first century. Jude 3 said that “the faith” had been “once for all delivered” to the saints” When we submit to the Word of God, we are born again by the Word, which was given by the Spirit. When we submit to God said by being baptized, then we are born of water and the Spirit.

But what if a person was baptized, but thought that he had been saved before he was baptized.If that is the case, things are backward, and that person is not right with God. That person has not yet done God’s will, but he can. A lot of people think they are saved, and then later are baptized to be added to a denominational group. But that is not what the Scriptures teach. In 1 Peter 3:21 we are told that baptism “does also now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” I am not saying that there is something mystical or magical in the water. Rather, when we submit to God’s will, He knows that we have done what He wants us to do, and He forgives us of our sins. Peter said, “Baptism does also now save us.” A person is saved at the point of baptism. Does a person “earn” his salvation?
No. “By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift

 

[BenFTW]

I've come across a scripture that says it all. (JGIG this point had to be said)

Romans 4:4 - Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

I had an "Aha! moment" when I read that verse. To those who say good works maintain their salvation, when they stand before God they are basically saying that God owes(debt) them salvation. If you have to work to maintain your salvation, it is no longer grace, but debt. You've done your deeds and now its time for your payment. You are basically earning your salvation by having to do good works to maintain it, which is not grace, but debt because, based on their view, if you don't do the works you aren't saved. That means that you must do the works to be saved, which entails that God owes you salvation based upon your works, which again, is not grace but debt. Lets look at these verses, for clarity.

" . . . And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. [SUP]4[/SUP] Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. [SUP]5[/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," (Rom. 4:3-5).

Can you stand before God and point to your good deeds and say that you maintained your salvation, and so now God owes you your due? It is no longer grace, but debt! This goes even to those who say baptism is necessary for salvation, because they are basing their salvation on the work of baptism, rather than on the work of Christ. They will stand before God and say, "I've been baptized, now give me my salvation" and yet it isn't water baptism that saves, it is Christ! Water baptism is a command, but it isn't what saves us. And to add such a work upon accepting Christ for salvation is to make God a debtor to man. "I've done this act, and it has given me salvation. Without this act, none have salvation. Therefore, this act is done and so with this act salvation is due." But as we all know, we are saved by grace through faith in Christ, not of any works!

From a site: What do we see from Romans 4:1-18?

We can draw conclusions from the text under examination.

• Abraham was not justified by works before God, v. 2.
• Abraham believed God, and his faith was reckoned as righteousness, v. 3.
• Paul speaks of works beyond the scope of the Mosaic law, v. 4.
• We who do not work but believe are justified by faith, v. 5.
• Being declared righteous is apart from human works, v. 6.
• Faith was reckoned to Abraham as righteousness, v. 9.
• Abraham was justified by faith before circumcision, v. 10.
• Circumcision is a seal of the righteousness of faith he already had while not circumcised, v. 11.

​

Circumcision is closely tied in with baptism, look to these verses.
Colossians 2:11–12 (NASB95)

11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, ...

Notice, that Abraham was justified by faith before circumcision. Are we not justified by faith before baptism?

From a site:

1. Faith is believing. If we are justified by faith, then we are justified when we believe. If we are justified by faith when we get baptized, then we are not justified by faith (when we believe) because faith occurs when we believe, and belief occurs before baptism. Therefore, if baptism is necessary for salvation, then we are not justified by faith when we have faith (when we believe) because we have faith before we are baptized! Therefore, baptismal regeneration denies justification by faith. If faith is combined with an action in order to bring justification, then it is not justification by faith but justification by faith and something.

Is justification by faith scriptural? I will post a list from a site, you only need to read a couple to get the idea, but theres 27 posted.
Following is a list of verses that show that salvation/justification is by faith. Bold references are particularly pointed.

• John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."
• Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
• Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"
• Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
• Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. [SUP]29[/SUP]Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [SUP]30[/SUP]since indeedGod who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
• Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
• Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
• Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
• Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
• Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
• Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
• Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
• Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
• Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
• Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; [SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
• Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
• Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
• Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
• Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? [SUP]6[/SUP]Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
• Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
• Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
• Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
• Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
• Eph. 1:13, "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise."
• Eph. 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God."
• Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."
• 1 Tim. 1:16, "And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life."

We therefore conclude that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (at the moment of acceptance/belief and before baptism).

 

[MsLimpet]

I've come across a scripture that says it all. (JGIG this point had to be said)



We therefore conclude that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (at the moment of acceptance/belief and before baptism).

But what if a person was baptized, but thought that he had been saved before he was baptized.If that is the case, things are backward, and that person is not right with God. That person has not yet done God’s will, but he can. A lot of people think they are saved, and then later are baptized to be added to a denominational group. But that is not what the Scriptures teach. In 1 Peter 3:21 we are told that baptism “does also now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

 

[SeaBass]

These deeds on the part of the person would seem to be reasonable. Otherwise, it is as you concluded.

Can one be a believer, if they have not performed 'to believe'?

Can one have confessed and repented, if they have not?

Although we have done nothing to be deserving of salvation, there are, however, things which need to be done on our side if we are to be a part of the Son's Covenant. Inasmuch as the Hebrews had to hearken, be not stubborn, learn His ways, we too must be active in our faith.

Yes.

One remains an unbeliever until he believes.
One remains impenitent until he repents.
One remains a denier of Christ until he confesses Christ.
One remains lost in unremitted/unforgiven sins until he is baptized for remission of sins.


The works of believing, repenting, confessing and submitting to baptism do not earn savlation no more than Naaman doing the work of dipping 7 times earned his cleansing. These works are only necessary conditions attached to a free gift.

 

[SeaBass]

yes, Everyone is saved without doing any work at all.

The difference is, Those who have not been saved, continue to do no work at all (even if they appear to be doing work) Those who have truly been saved, have been empowered and will do work.

Not biblcally possible. Can one be sved and NEVER do the works of beieivng,repenting of sins, confessing Christ and submitting to baptism for the remission of sins? That is can an unbeliever, impenitnet denier of Christ lost in his unforgiven sins be sved while he remains in that state? No.


You posted "Those who have truly been saved, have been empowered and will do work"

Can the one who has truly been saved not "do work" you speak of here and still be saved?


If you answer "no" then you are making these works a requirement for salvation.

If you answer "yes" you are contradicting your own statement here.

 

[SeaBass]

Dude you say it every time you demand that works are required. Your fooling yourself and lying to yourself if you think you are not saying that very thing..



So you have to walk to Gods office and get the keys to the kingdom to be saved? Sorry, I thought God would come to you where you stand..

Next?

You posted yourself in post #725 the following: "Those who have truly been saved, have been empowered and will do work."

Again, are these woks you say the truly saved will do necessary for his salvation or can he still be saved WITHOUT doing these works you speak about?

What verses says the sinner does nothing while God comes to the sinner and forces salvation upon that sinner?

 

[SeaBass]

lol.. Nope. All those things are works of God (sorry you believe physical baptism saves. Here you are working to earn you gift. I thought you told me you did not teach this??

Make up your mind

God does not do the works of belieivng repenting confessing and being baptized...God does nothave to have an obedient belief in CHrist else perish, God has no sins to be repented of else He prsihes, God does not have to confess Christ else have Christ deny Him, God has no sins to be remitted of in baptism else be lost in His unforgiven sins.


Was Naaman's healing by grace OR did he earn his healing when he went and did the work of dipping 7 times in the river?

Faith only advocates simply refuse to understand the simple concept that free gifts can come with conditions, and meeting those conditions do not earn the free gift.

 

[SeaBass]

wow.. Now your true insincerity shows forth. Can you actually tell me you can read the passage and believe what you just said?

What did Jesus tell them they had to do??

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

So they ask. What work must I do.

Jesus answered. It Is Gods work which saves you (telling them they can do not work to save themselves. God must do all the work.)

if you would just humble yourself and look at the word. You would see there is NOTHING you can do to earn salvation or anything else. IT IS ALL GODS WORK

Yes, they asked Jesus what work THEY do, not what work GOD will do for them.

And when they asked what work THEY are to do, Jesus did not tell them "do no works else you will be trying to earn your salvation" By your posts here, that is how you would haveanswered their question.

Yet Jesus answered the question by giving the the work of believing to do.

In Acts 2:37 the people asked "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" WE DO and not what works shall God do for us. And again they were commanded to do the works of repentng and submitting to baptism and NOT told to "do nothing, else you try and earn your salvation".

Night and day difference in how Jesus?Peter answered their question and how a faith only advocate would have answered their question.

 

[BenFTW]

God does not do the works of belieivng repenting confessing and being baptized...God does nothave to have an obedient belief in CHrist else perish, God has no sins to be repented of else He prsihes, God does not have to confess Christ else have Christ deny Him, God has no sins to be remitted of in baptism else be lost in His unforgiven sins.


Was Naaman's healing by grace OR did he earn his healing when he went and did the work of dipping 7 times in the river?

Faith only advocates simply refuse to understand the simple concept that free gifts can come with conditions, and meeting those conditions do not earn the free gift.

"I will buy you a new car, if you graduate high school", says the parent to the son. Graduating high school is the condition upon the so called "gift." But, it is no longer a gift if you have to work for it, it is a reward. As I stated above, and will now again do so, Romans 4:4.

Romans 4:4 - Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

The parent owes a car to the son who graduated high school; therefore, the parent is in debt to the son. It is not a free gift with conditions, it is a reward that is earned if certain criteria is met.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Repentance is, however, not a meritorious work of the flesh, but a work of the Spirit of God by grace.

 

[BenFTW]

JGIG, so much for me agreeing, huh? lol There are some things that just need to be said.

 

[faroukfarouk]

But what if a person was baptized, but thought that he had been saved before he was baptized.If that is the case, things are backward, and that person is not right with God. That person has not yet done God’s will, but he can. A lot of people think they are saved, and then later are baptized to be added to a denominational group. But that is not what the Scriptures teach. In 1 Peter 3:21 we are told that baptism “does also now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

Actually, in Acts 2, those who gladly received his word were baptised (Acts 2.41). They showed they already believed and had had dealings with the Lord by faith, when they submitted to the outward symbol. The symbol itself did not save.

 

[SeaBass]

It's a heart issue. Some read isolated verses that say "faith alone" and run with it. They work harder at trying to "sell" that notion than the work required of God ".

Good point and what irony. The only salvic verse that speaks of "faith alone" says a man is not justifed by faith alone, James 2.

In the great commission, Mt 28:19,20; Mk 16:15,16 Christ gave the command (not an option) to His disciples to "go" unto all the world, every creature and teach the gospel to the lost world. Going to the world to teach the lost the gospel is a work. Can a disciple of Christ NOT do this work and still be saved? No. NOt going would be direct disobedience to Christ...SIN.

But "faith only" says one does not have to do any works else he is earning his salvation. So if faith only were biblically true, then Christianity would have died out centuries ago for lack of anyone ever doing the WORK of taking the gospel to the lost. I could not be a Christian today if others did not do the WORK of teaching me or if I did not do the WORK of teaching and studying the bible myself to see what it has to say.

 

[SeaBass]

The thief on the cross was never baptized in water, only by the Spirit. Love to all, Hoffco

Again, the thief is not an example of NT salvation. He lived and died BEFORE Acts 2:38 ever came into effect and therefore is not accountable to it as we today who live AFTER ACts 2:38 are accountable to it.

Also, what proof do you have that the thief was NEVER water baptized? How do you know he was not of those in Mk 1:5 that was baptized of John but later fell away to a life of crime?


The implication of Acts 2:41,44 is that "believed" in v44 includes baptism of v41. And the implication of v41 is that one has not gladly received the gospel message until he has been baptized.

 

[SeaBass]

1, The word eis in greek can be translated either way
2, As fir the english it can also be translated either way...

I went to the doctor for help (in order to recieve)
I went to the pharmacy for my child (on behalf of)
I went to the doctor for my illness (on account of)

When you try and change the meaning of Greek words to force your theology into the bible you create a host of problems and contradictions. If I change the meaning of 'eis' to mean "because" then we get:

Mt 26:28 "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many "BECAUSE OF" the remission of sins."


You have people having all their sins remitted BEFORE CHrist even shed His blood which is not possible, Heb 9:22 "and without shedding of blood is no remission".


1 Tim 1:16 "Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him "BECAUSE OF" life everlasting.


Here you would have people believing BECAUSE they ALREADY have life everlasting which is not possible for the unbeliever is lost, condmened, Mk 16:16.

 

[SeaBass]

Romans 11:6

New International Version
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

New Living Translation
And since it is through God's kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God's grace would not be what it really is--free and undeserved.

English Standard Version
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

New American Standard Bible
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

King James Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

International Standard Version
But if this is by grace, then it is no longer on the basis of actions. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace.

NET Bible
And if it is by grace, it is no longer by works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But if it is by grace, it is not from works, or else grace is not grace. But if it is by works, it is not from grace, or else work is not work.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
If they were chosen by God's kindness, they weren't chosen because of anything they did. Otherwise, God's kindness wouldn't be kindness.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And if by grace, then is it not by works; otherwise, the grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, then it is no longer grace; otherwise, the work is no longer work.

King James 2000 Bible
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

American King James Version
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

American Standard Version
But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Darby Bible Translation
But if by grace, no longer of works: since [otherwise] grace is no more grace.

English Revised Version
But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Webster's Bible Translation
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Weymouth New Testament
But if it is in His grace that He has selected them, then His choice is no longer determined by human actions. Otherwise grace would be grace no longer.

World English Bible
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Young's Literal Translation
and if by grace, no more of works, otherwise the grace becometh no more grace; and if of works, it is no more grace, otherwise the work is no more work.​

-JGIG

The context of Romans 11:1-6. Paul is saying God has NOT cast away fleshly Israel, but fleshly Israel can obey the gospel and become Christians, as Paul did, and become a spiritual Jew who the true child of God, cf Rom 2:28,29. In verse 4 Paul uses an event in the past that showed who God's people was at that time under the OT..."I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal" Those that OBEYED God by not bowing to Baal was God's people THEN. Yet in verse 5 Paul says "at this present time" God's chosen are those "remnant according to the election of grace" refers to that remnant of Jews that obeyed the gospel in Acts 2:38ff. So back THEN God's people were the ones that obeyed by not bowing to Baal. NOW, at this present time, God's people are those according to the election of grace, ie, those that obey the gospel of Christ.

So "works" in verse 6 refers to works of merit, not obedience to God. Paul's point in Romans is God did not base His choices/promises upon works of merit or fleshly descent. In Rom 2:45 Paul talks about the need to repent, Rom 10:9,10 the need to obey be believing and confessing Christ and Rom 6 the need to be baptized.

 

[SeaBass]

I've attempted to read the last 10 or 15 pages of this thread, and find that the same stuff is being hashed over and over and over.

I'm done here. Why supposed believers want to preach bad news to other believers to make them doubt the Work of Christ is beyond me. Using contextual Scripture, I and a few others have SOUNDLY defended the Gospel of Grace. In my opinion, it's time to step away, let them have what they think is the last word (it's not - the Gospel will always Always ALWAYS stand \o/), and wait for the next opportunity to contend for the simple Truths of the Gospel. This thread has reached the point where the same people are arguing the same points and new folks coming upon the thread find its length not worth the time to pick through.

Let our side's position rest.

There will be other, more profitable opportunities to contend for the faith.

As my Granny used to say, this thread has "had the biscuit".

Grace and peace,
-JGIG

Contending for the faith is a work. You are not trying to earn your salvation by this work are you?

 

[SeaBass]

Agreed, and I think anyone reading this thread with an open mind will see the grace message vs the works message. It comes down to whether they will trust in their good works, or trust in Jesus' work. Where is your confidence?

Having participated in the thread (and starting it), all I have seen the faith only crowd struggle to get one saved without ever doing any works.

There is not a single verse that says God's grace excludes obedience to His will. Titus 2:11 God's grace hath appeared to all men. So if God's grace was unconditional then all men would be saved, but that is not the case, Mt 7:13. The fact God's grace hath appeared to all men and all men will not be saved proves that God's grace is NOT UNCONDITIONAL but is conditional upon mans' obedience to His will. Not a single verse says God's grace saves those that are disobedient to His will and remain that way.

 

[SeaBass]

Indeed scripture tells us that he who is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject.

Perhaps someone can explain why they would place more faith in water baptism than in the blood of Jesus Christ? Why do some demand that water baptism be added to the finished work of Christ? Why if the Father is pleased must man corrupt the perfect work that God has done? I know why did Eve believe the serpent and reject God?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1 Pet 3:21 baptism saves. Baptism saves because God says it does for water baptism is where the blood of Christ washes away sins.

Rev 1:5 "...Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"


Where did Christ shed His blood?

In HIs death, Jn 19:34.


So man must access into the death of Christ where He shed HIs blood.

By no coincidence water baptism is what puts one into the death of Christ..Rom 6:3_5 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

God therefore has chosen water baptism as the means by which one is saved, the point where Christ's blood washes away sins.

 

[SeaBass]

Titus 3:5 tells us that we are to undergo a washing of regeneration. Ephesians 5:26 tells us that we are to be washed and cleansed via the new birth. In 2 Corinthians 5:17 we are told, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.” How do we get clean, remove our sins?

Jn 3:5----------------------spirit++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>into the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13----------------spirit++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>>>>in the body
Titus 3:5-----------------HolyGhost++++++++ washing of reg. >>>>>>>saved
Eph 5:26------------------the word+++++++ washing of water >>>>>>>cleansed

THe bible being its own best commentary, water baptism is clearly part of the new birth.