Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[feedm3]

You have it all backwards.

The question you should be asking is, What can I do to pay for my sin, so I can get to heaven. The answer is simple. without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness.

So are you going to shed your own blood to pay for your own sin? And would you shedding your own blood even be enough to pay for your own sin?

No, my sin has already been payed for by the blood of Chirst. This is what he offeres us when we come to Him. He purchased us, that means payed. Your asking a question he already answered.

I need to ask, just as the Jews did in Acts 2:37, upon hearing the word of God "what must we do"?

This question is asking what must we do to be saved by Him?

Again your asking the wrong question.

The question is NOT is works done, The question is does one have true faith or mere belief. God determines the answer to this. and saves someone completely when he determines who has true faith Before one work is even done.

So you're saying when one comes to Christ, God already knows if he is saved or not saved -okay. Then what factor does God base this on?
If God determines this individual has "mere belief" or "true faith" before any obedience (work) is done, then what is the determining factor that makes mere belief and true faith?

There has to be something? Otherwise none of us would know if we are saved or not.

You believe you are saved. So then you believe you have true faith and God determined that before you ever did anything. So what did God base that off of? What caused God to know you had true faith and not mere belief?

I believe one is saved by faith (true) and not by works. I also believe a licentious person will never be saved (mere belief vs true faith) Works do not enter the equation.

Why? What is a licentious person? Is licentiousness disobedience? So licentiousness is something that is DONE by us, yet it can cause "mere belief" as our faith? So then disobedience can cause us to "never have been saved" therefore obedience is essential to salvation.

That is exactly what you saying. How do you not see this?

And my quote still stands.

If you add works of any kind, any type, and any amount to be saved, your trying to save yourself and have rejected the grace of God.

Then why does Jesus ADD works to determine our love for him, and claim it as our duty - Jn 14:15, Luke 17:10

If by obedience to His commands (work) we show if we really love Him, then he is saying if we have no obedience we do not really love Him.

So do you believe we can go to heaven if we do not love him?

Of course you dont. So then if disobeying his commands shows we were never saved, then it is once again essential to salvation that we obey Him, to show we love Him and are saved - yes or no? <------Please address this even if you ignore everything else

You did not address my 3 points though. thats okay i would rather you explain what you just stated above. Because we need to know the determining factor between mere beleif and true faith and how it's already decided before we act.

 

[VCO]

Isa 64:6 is taken out of context where the context is talking about those in their iniquity.

Why is it Isa 64:5 never gets quoted? Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness,those that remember thee in thy ways: God meets/entreats/helps those that work righteousness and are not seen as filthy rags.

The whole point is WHY were they doing what they considered righteousness. If they were done to try to manipulate GOD into giving them what they wanted, they are still nothing more than filthy rags. BUT it they were done purely out of a deep LOVE for God, then and ONLY THEN are they genuinely good works. Why do you keep your focus on the deeds only, instead of the MOTIVE behind the deeds?


Revelation 2:20-23 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But I have this against you: You tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and teaches and deceives My slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat meat sacrificed to idols.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I gave her time to repent, but she does not want to repent of her sexual immorality.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Look! I will throw her into a sickbed and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her practices.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] I will kill her children with the plague. Then all the churches will know that I am the One who examines minds and hearts, and I will give to each of you according to your works.

Christ makes it VERY CLEAR that Heavenly rewards are based on MOTIVES behind the deeds.

1 Chronicles 28:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever.

YET you keep preaching MUST DO, instead of Loving the LORD enough to: "serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts."

 

[VCO]

. . .

So do you believe we can go to heaven if we do not love him?

Of course you dont. So then if disobeying his commands shows we were never saved, then it is once again essential to salvation that we obey Him, to show we love Him and are saved - yes or no? <------Please address this even if you ignore everything else

Since you statement seems to directed at all of us who believe a SAVED (past tense) Christian is one who WILL Love the LORD and manifest that LOVE by obeying HIM; I will give you my answer too.

YOU have worded the question all wrong, and the wording of the question seems to be designed to entrap, JUST LIKE the Pharisees and Sanhedrin did to JESUS.

Mark 12:13 (GW)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The leaders sent some of the Pharisees and some of Herod's followers to Jesus. They wanted to trap him into saying the wrong thing.

John 8:6 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] They asked this to trap Him, in order that they might have evidence to accuse Him. Jesus stooped down and started writing on the ground with His finger.

If I may, let me re-word your question, so that we CAN GIVE YOU AN HONEST ANSWER.

So do we believe it is absolutely essential to be SAVED first, in order to genuinely LOVE the LORD and serve HIM out that loving, willing heart with obedience? - yes or no?

Worded that way, the answer would be - - - YES!

 

[feedm3]

So do we believe it is absolutely essential to be SAVED first, in order to genuinely LOVE the LORD and serve HIM out that loving, willing heart with obedience? - yes or no?

This is not "reworded" this is completly changed, because you could not answer my question without brining yourself into a condratiction. You tried to make it as a trap, yet it should not be hard to answer, no get trapped.

So I didnt ask if you must be saved first in order to love the Lord. that has nothign to do with the question you just ran from.

Lets try again.

If by obedience, we show we love him, then is obedience essential to salvation?

Look I even simplified it for you. It's a simple yes or no, but feel free to elaborate. Your reworded question and answer is all of your own, im not asking anthing like that.

if you really have to try and reword the simple above question in order to answer, that should be red flag to you right off the bat. Any Christian should be able to answer that exactly how it's worded. It's funny you act as if it's a trap. Lol

Here it is again:

If by obedience, we show we love him, then is obedience essential to salvation?

Here I can answer it - Yes it is. Because it shows we love Him or it shows we do not.

Now your turn - no traps in that simple question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, my sin has already been payed for by the blood of Chirst. This is what he offeres us when we come to Him. He purchased us, that means payed. Your asking a question he already answered.

I need to ask, just as the Jews did in Acts 2:37, upon hearing the word of God "what must we do"?

This question is asking what must we do to be saved by Him?

He told you in John 3: 16. He came, that whoever believes (has true faith ) will never perish, but HAS eternal life. And many other places

Paul told us in eph 1 - 2. That whoever hears the word of truth, and believes (has faith) will be saved, and be given the spirit of God as a guarantee forever. And many other places.

Why are you trying to add your own works. You say you believe Jesus paid the price in full. But then you deny it by saying you have to add your own works. Your contradicting yourself.

So you're saying when one comes to Christ, God already knows if he is saved or not saved -okay. Then what factor does God base this on?

Your joking right? You telling Me God does not know BEFORE he saves them?

If God determines this individual has "mere belief" or "true faith" before any obedience (work) is done, then what is the determining factor that makes mere belief and true faith?

It is obvious that since you ask this, you do not know the difference yourself. So maybe you need to look up the word faith? (in the greek) ??

There has to be something? Otherwise none of us would know if we are saved or not.

Thats funny, I knew the moment I trusted God (over 30 years ago) and have never wavered in my faith that God would keep his promise to me based on his sons work.

Maybe you do not know because your still trusting self. and have yet to trust God??

You believe you are saved.

No. I have an assurance I am saved, that is what faith is. I trust God to keep his promise based on what his son did. If I trusted myself, and how much work I did or did not do. I could never know or trust I was saved.

So then you believe you have true faith and God determined that before you ever did anything. So what did God base that off of? What caused God to know you had true faith and not mere belief?

Circular reasoning. It is obvious you do not understand who god is. Like he needs somethign from us, and does not know out true heart. next

Why? What is a licentious person? Is licentiousness disobedience? So licentiousness is something that is DONE by us, yet it can cause "mere belief" as our faith? So then disobedience can cause us to "never have been saved" therefore obedience is essential to salvation.

Circular reasoning.

The jews taught works. Christ rejected them. Jude says those who turn the grace of God to licentiousness where condemned before they were even born. So again, Your argument fails you

That is exactly what you saying. How do you not see this?

I am not saying what you think I am. That is obvious.

Then why does Jesus ADD works to determine our love for him, and claim it as our duty - Jn 14:15, Luke 17:10

If by obedience to His commands (work) we show if we really love Him, then he is saying if we have no obedience we do not really love Him.

So do you believe we can go to heaven if we do not love him?

Of course you dont. So then if disobeying his commands shows we were never saved, then it is once again essential to salvation that we obey Him, to show we love Him and are saved - yes or no? <------Please address this even if you ignore everything else

You did not address my 3 points though. thats okay i would rather you explain what you just stated above. Because we need to know the determining factor between mere beleif and true faith and how it's already decided before we act.

Jesus did not add works. The jews did, and you are.

Again, If you think you have to work. Your trusting self not God. Why will you not trust God? And more importantly. Why would you want to trust self?

 

[feedm3]

Why are you trying to add your own works. You say you believe Jesus paid the price in full. But then you deny it by saying you have to add your own works. Your contradicting yourself.

Nice try, not really. It's not condraticting. Christ paid the price for our sins, we do not have to. Obedience is not us "paying the price for our sins" it is us obeying God and doing our duty.

Try again, this time leave out straw men.

Your joking right? You telling Me God does not know BEFORE he saves them?

Another way to evade the question. I didnt ask if God knows or not (straw man), I asked what is the determining factor God bases his dececision on if your saved or not.

It is obvious that since you ask this, you do not know the difference yourself. So maybe you need to look up the word faith? (in the greek) ??

I teach Greek, dont have to look it up, i proved that you dont know much about Greek with with Acts 2 (remember collective nouns that you deny exist). You shouldn't bring up Greek. Also you just evaded another question. Do you ever answer anything. I answer every statement you make, because my belief is scriptural.

You cannot do the same.

Thats funny, I knew the moment I trusted God (over 30 years ago) and have never wavered in my faith that God would keep his promise to me based on his sons work.

Maybe you do not know because your still trusting self. and have yet to trust God??

Trusting is myself to do what? Obey his commands and show I love him? Did he set a standard of love that he knokw I could not carry out? So do we have to love Him in order to be saved?

No. I have an assurance I am saved, that is what faith is. I trust God to keep his promise based on what his son did. If I trusted myself, and how much work I did or did not do. I could never know or trust I was saved.

Really? So if God tells you that His son died for you and he is the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey him (Heb5:9) you wouldnt believe it? You would say no, if i obey i trust myself. Hmmmmm

Circular reasoning. It is obvious you do not understand who god is. Like he needs somethign from us, and does not know out true heart. next

Lol, do like me, and SHOW your assertions. "Circular reasoning" then nothign to back that up. Just saying it does not cut it.

SHOW SHOW SHOW or again your just using filler to avoid the questions.

The jews taught works. Christ rejected them. Jude says those who turn the grace of God to licentiousness where condemned before they were even born. So again, Your argument fails you

Here let me finish what your trying so hard to say. The Jews tuaght to remain under the works of the law of Moses. Which after christ came, was disobedience.

Jude's statement has nothing to do with what I asked. I said is licentiousness disobedience, will it cause us to have dead faith?

Try again, answer the question. Stop purposely going off track.

Jesus did not add works. The jews did, and you are.

So your saying I am the one that said "if you love me keep my commands"?

That's all Ive been asking, yet none of you will answer.

Here it is for the 3rd time:
IF keeping is commands show we love Him, then is keeping his commands essential to salvation?????

Wow what would you people do if someone your teaching asks this. Drop your bibles and take off runnig??

Again, If you think you have to work. Your trusting self not God. Why will you not trust God? And more importantly. Why would you want to trust self?

You sould like a broken record dancing with the same straw man. Obedience is not trusting in my self, it being humble enough to know we MUST obey God.

This is so evil to even try to convince people they do not ....wait, you kmow what, it just hit me.

You seriously dont even know what your teaching.

IF I believed a saved person will not live in sin, then never would i teach others that obedience is not essential to salvation. Reason being, if I TRULY believe saved people do not live in sin, then I would be teaching we cannot live in sin and go to heaven.

Is this what you teach????


Forget everything ive said ans answer that

Eternally Grateful DO YOU BELIEVE A SAVED PERSON WILL NOT LIVE IN SIN BECAUSE HE IS SAVED?

Do you teach others we cannot remain in a life of sin or we were never saved????

 

[newbirth]

Again I ask, are you saying this to me, are you making a judgment on me as what?
Who are you perceiving me to be, please be frank to me. Have I condemned you or anyone, please show me
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now nocondemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

And I do not claim to be perfect, I do claim God to be perfect and I do claim to believe in God's perfection for me and all that believe God

Those words are the words we ought to live by I see life in them. If we do them we live if we don't we die. I cannot judge you brother I am too busy trying to get the beam out of my eye. We are called to be perfect(mature) in Christ, actually it is about walking after the spirit.
Romans 8
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken(make alive) your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify (kill) the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

This is what God instructs us . He also shows us what fruits we should bear If I show how we must walk (live) do I condemn you? If one teaches you not to do these thing it is he who condemns you.

[h=3]Ephesians 5:8-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]8 [/SUP]For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
[SUP]9 [/SUP](For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.


[h=3]Galatians 5:19-24[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nice try, not really. It's not condraticting. Christ paid the price for our sins, we do not have to. Obedience is not us "paying the price for our sins" it is us obeying God and doing our duty.

Try again, this time leave out straw men.




Another way to evade the question. I didnt ask if God knows or not (straw man), I asked what is the determining factor God bases his dececision on if your saved or not.


I teach Greek, dont have to look it up, i proved that you dont know much about Greek with with Acts 2 (remember collective nouns that you deny exist). You shouldn't bring up Greek. Also you just evaded another question. Do you ever answer anything. I answer every statement you make, because my belief is scriptural.

You cannot do the same.

Trusting is myself to do what? Obey his commands and show I love him? Did he set a standard of love that he knokw I could not carry out? So do we have to love Him in order to be saved?



Really? So if God tells you that His son died for you and he is the author of eternal salvation unto all that obey him (Heb5:9) you wouldnt believe it? You would say no, if i obey i trust myself. Hmmmmm




Lol, do like me, and SHOW your assertions. "Circular reasoning" then nothign to back that up. Just saying it does not cut it.

SHOW SHOW SHOW or again your just using filler to avoid the questions.



Here let me finish what your trying so hard to say. The Jews tuaght to remain under the works of the law of Moses. Which after christ came, was disobedience.

Jude's statement has nothing to do with what I asked. I said is licentiousness disobedience, will it cause us to have dead faith?

Try again, answer the question. Stop purposely going off track.






So your saying I am the one that said "if you love me keep my commands"?

That's all Ive been asking, yet none of you will answer.

Here it is for the 3rd time:
IF keeping is commands show we love Him, then is keeping his commands essential to salvation?????

Wow what would you people do if someone your teaching asks this. Drop your bibles and take off runnig??


You sould like a broken record dancing with the same straw man. Obedience is not trusting in my self, it being humble enough to know we MUST obey God.

This is so evil to even try to convince people they do not ....wait, you kmow what, it just hit me.

You seriously dont even know what your teaching.

IF I believed a saved person will not live in sin, then never would i teach others that obedience is not essential to salvation. Reason being, if I TRULY believe saved people do not live in sin, then I would be teaching we cannot live in sin and go to heaven.

Is this what you teach????


Forget everything ive said ans answer that

Eternally Grateful DO YOU BELIEVE A SAVED PERSON WILL NOT LIVE IN SIN BECAUSE HE IS SAVED?

Do you teach others we cannot remain in a life of sin or we were never saved????

this whole response was a strawman.

I asked if God knows or does not know a mans heart when he saves him. You did everything but answer the question.

You do not know greek. If you did, you would not be questioning what faith really means.

 

[feedm3]

this whole response was a strawman.

I asked if God knows or does not know a mans heart when he saves him. You did everything but answer the question.

You do not know greek. If you did, you would not be questioning what faith really means.

Wow. You seriously are not fooling anyone. It's like you read what i expose of you, then copy what i said and try to turn it on me, like I know you are but what i am I. Lol im cracking up.

I've never seen someone straight RUN from questions. Here just drop the show and answer these:

IF I believed a saved person will not live in sin, then never would i teach others that obedience is not essential to salvation. Reason being, if I TRULY believe saved people do not live in sin, then I would be teaching we cannot live in sin and go to heaven.

Is this what you teach????


Forget everything ive said ans answer that

Eternally Grateful DO YOU BELIEVE A SAVED PERSON WILL NOT LIVE IN SIN BECAUSE HE IS SAVED?

Do you teach others we cannot remain in a life of sin or we were never saved????

 

[feedm3]

@Eternally Greatful
Uphold what you teach. I answered all your questions, even the straw men ones. You didnt read my response, it frightened you and you just again stuck the whole thing in one quote. The reason I know you didnt read it, is because theirs no way you would have just copied what i said to you like a child.

If you can give a straight answer on the above question as to what you believe and teach, it would be a good thing for those who believe you. Running is just dishonest and shows your blinded with the pride of appearing right over what is really true.

Remember, you can fool others, you can fool yourself, but cannot fool God. He knows where your heart is. He knows why you really want to believe the false teaching that you teach.

On the otherhand, you dont realize it, but you teach obedience is essential to salvation, just like me.

Becuae you say a saved person will not live in sin. Implying a saved person has repented.

Therfore I assume you teach that we must all repent of our sins in order to be saved truly, if we do not then we were never saved.

So you're actually teaching we MUST repent in order to "have been saved" in the first place.

So what exactly are you arguing with me for? I teach the samething. We cannot live in sin.

Does that about sum up what you believe? Pretty confusing huh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow. You seriously are not fooling anyone. It's like you read what i expose of you, then copy what i said and try to turn it on me, like I know you are but what i am I. Lol im cracking up.

I've never seen someone straight RUN from questions. Here just drop the show and answer these:

IF I believed a saved person will not live in sin, then never would i teach others that obedience is not essential to salvation. Reason being, if I TRULY believe saved people do not live in sin, then I would be teaching we cannot live in sin and go to heaven.

Is this what you teach????

Your dodging the question

The question is HOW one gets saved. Now what a saved person will do

Those are two separate questions. I already told you this, But all you have done is beat around the bush, and refuse to acknowledge what the true question must be. Do we need to start over?

Forget everything ive said ans answer that

Eternally Grateful DO YOU BELIEVE A SAVED PERSON WILL NOT LIVE IN SIN BECAUSE HE IS SAVED?

Non topical question. It does not answer HOW ONE GETS SAVED. We are not discussing what someone who IS SAVED will do.

why do you want to talk about that when we are still talking about the first?

You can say I am ignoring all you want, Your the one ignoring the question.

Do you teach others we cannot remain in a life of sin or we were never saved????

I do not teach anything about sin, other than for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

I can not teach a dead man not to sin, he does not have the capacity to understand how to stop. Lets get them saved first. Then let GOD deal with their sin, Or do you lack faith in God doing that also?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Eternally Greatful
Uphold what you teach. I answered all your questions, even the straw men ones. You didnt read my response, it frightened you and you just again stuck the whole thing in one quote. The reason I know you didnt read it, is because theirs no way you would have just copied what i said to you like a child.

If you can give a straight answer on the above question as to what you believe and teach, it would be a good thing for those who believe you. Running is just dishonest and shows your blinded with the pride of appearing right over what is really true.

Remember, you can fool others, you can fool yourself, but cannot fool God. He knows where your heart is. He knows why you really want to believe the false teaching that you teach.

On the otherhand, you dont realize it, but you teach obedience is essential to salvation, just like me.

Becuae you say a saved person will not live in sin. Implying a saved person has repented.

Therfore I assume you teach that we must all repent of our sins in order to be saved truly, if we do not then we were never saved.

So you're actually teaching we MUST repent in order to "have been saved" in the first place.

So what exactly are you arguing with me for? I teach the samething. We cannot live in sin.

Does that about sum up what you believe? Pretty confusing huh?

You have not answered anything.

And no, You have no idea what I believe. You to busy trying to figure out what I think a saved person should do. And not responding to HOW ONE GETS SAVED.

Again, Does God know your heart or does he not?

 

[feedm3]

You have not answered anything.

And no, You have no idea what I believe. You to busy trying to figure out what I think a saved person should do. And not responding to HOW ONE GETS SAVED.

Again, Does God know your heart or does he not?

So now were only speaking of how one gets saved, and not what has to do with salvation. This is about works of obedience being a must or not in order to get to heaven.

I see how your trying to take control of the discussion because you know your not answering anything. Plus your trying your hardest to appear as if im doing what you are, doding questions.

Now, how one is saved is another topic, that I already went over with you before.

Back to the topic at hand - works needed or not.

I will not tell you what you teach, i will just ask.

Do you still believe a saved person will not live in sin?

Then do you teach if we live in sin, we were never saved?

This is a topical question, as are the others you're refusing to answer.

We are speaking about works effecting salvation. Obedience is a work, a duty. SO these are valid questions especially considering everything you just said. You're provoking these questions by asserting you're belief.

There, two simple questions, just asking what you believe, and teach.

You said "no you have no idea what i believe", so i am asking with these two questions. Will you answer them?

"i dont teach anything about sin" is not an answer, you're teaching right now about sin. So lets not try to play the humble quiet student now, you've said quiet a bit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So now were only speaking of how one gets saved, and not what has to do with salvation.

That is what the conversation has always been about (since you responded to my post) your the one who wishes to take it after one is saved, not me.

This is about works of obedience being a must or not in order to get to heaven.

Already been answered

I see how your trying to take control of the discussion because you know your not answering anything. Plus your trying your hardest to appear as if im doing what you are, doding questions.

lol. Ok. Why did you respond to me then?? If yuo do not want to STICK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND.

Now, how one is saved is another topic, that I already went over with you before.

No. That is the topic now. I have no desire to discuss how a person will act AFTER they get saved, until we first figure out HOW ONE gets saved. If a person is not saved, there is no after. But I guess that is not important to you.

Back to the topic at hand - works needed or not.

I will not tell you what you teach, i will just ask.

Do you still believe a saved person will not live in sin?

Is it wrong then for me to assume you teach if we live in sin, we were never saved?

There, two simple questions, just asking what you believe, and teach.

You said "no you have no idea what i believe", so i am asking with these two questions. Will you answer them?

I am not going to respond to questions about what a saved person will or will not do. So stop asking. that is not the topic.

Your just asking to try to get off the fact your trying to add works to salvation and save yourself. And not on the promises of God. and whether he KNOWS you have true faith or not. As if he NEEDS OUR HELP!

 

[feedm3]

That is what the conversation has always been about (since you responded to my post) your the one who wishes to take it after one is saved, not me.

Wow you dont even scroll back to see what started this before you open your mouth. Lol here is your post.

if your saying a work of any type of any kind or of any number must be done. Your basing salvation on your ability and power to do those works. and rejecting the grace of God. end of story.

Now as you can see, you responded to my original post saying we must repent in order to remain Christians, as i showed the church at Corith and in Hebrews that Christians were told they must obey.

SO in red above - you disagreed that any works of obedience was needed. Therefore you disagreed on the topic Christians must not live in sin in order to go to heaven.

Now I just flat out proved you wrong again. You are off topic and avoiding questions that pertain to the original topic YOU decided to chime in on.

(Do i need to paste my orginal comment for you as well? Or can you just skip back a page and take a look)

Now you know where this is going, because i've got you before in your paradox of belief, so you just tried to act as if I was off topic.

Ha that not a very good strategy you try with everything. When wrong, just pretend you werent with confidence. lol forget going back a page to see if that is the case, no one will be smart enough to do that.

You're just playing games with yourself. Once again WILL YOU ADMIT YOU JUST BEEN PROVED WRONG ABOUT THE TOPIC AT LEAST? WOW!

So back to my questions that pertian to "if you say works have to be done...".

Yes I do say obedience is vital.

So:
1. Do you believe a saved person will live in sin (works pertain to salvation the original topic)
2. Do you teach others if they live in sin - they were never saved?

Why are you so afraid of these? It's sad. When you have a sound doctrine you can answer anything.

You keep coming back at me because you're mad, deep down you hate the fact I can get running from questions. Your not used to it because you deal with unstudied novices.

So you keep coming back for more, and it's obvious you think pretending is really fooling people.

Look im going to tell you something not to gloat or anything, when we were having those long discussions about James, and Acts, and the Greek, the prodigal son etc. People who were on your side of belief PM'd me telling me to stop being prideful because i proved my point and you knew but were not going to admit it. Im only telling you this so you will stop putting on a show. IF you want to have a real study, then lets do it.

You responded to my post first about works of obedience for those who were ALREADY Christians. GO back a page and look what you were responding to.

It's right there you cant deny it. So please answer the questions you have provoked, or stop talking to me, or ACCEPT MY CHALLENGE FOR A PUBLIC DEBATE.

remember you dont have to do anything. I'll find a hosting congregation in YOUR area, i will come to you. All you have to do is show up.

It would benifeit BOTH of us - besides we have pretty much been doing it already for a while now. May as well be in person

If not thats fine, but at least answer the questions you have provoked which as i proved are very much on topic and dealing with your first post to me.

Cmon lets have a discussion, not show for people no ones looking anyway lol

 

[newbirth]

[SUP]

No. That is the topic now. I have no desire to discuss how a person will act AFTER they get saved, until we first figure out HOW ONE gets saved. If a person is not saved, there is no after. But I guess that is not important to you.

How one gets saved?

James 1
21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:1-3King James Version (KJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Ephesians 2:4-5

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Ephesians 2:7-9

King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[DavidLOVESsnow]

[h=3]Galatians 5:19-20[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,




Enough of the variance and strife. People won't always agree with you, regardless of the evidence you show. This thread has been going on for way too long. Enough is enough, just let it go.

 

[AllForHIm]

Wow you dont even scroll back to see what started this before you open your mouth. Lol here is your post.



Now as you can see, you responded to my original post saying we must repent in order to remain Christians, as i showed the church at Corith and in Hebrews that Christians were told they must obey.

SO in red above - you disagreed that any works of obedience was needed. Therefore you disagreed on the topic Christians must not live in sin in order to go to heaven.

Now I just flat out proved you wrong again. You are off topic and avoiding questions that pertain to the original topic YOU decided to chime in on.

(Do i need to paste my orginal comment for you as well? Or can you just skip back a page and take a look)

Now you know where this is going, because i've got you before in your paradox of belief, so you just tried to act as if I was off topic.

Ha that not a very good strategy you try with everything. When wrong, just pretend you werent with confidence. lol forget going back a page to see if that is the case, no one will be smart enough to do that.

You're just playing games with yourself. Once again WILL YOU ADMIT YOU JUST BEEN PROVED WRONG ABOUT THE TOPIC AT LEAST? WOW!

So back to my questions that pertian to "if you say works have to be done...".

Yes I do say obedience is vital.

So:
1. Do you believe a saved person will live in sin (works pertain to salvation the original topic)
2. Do you teach others if they live in sin - they were never saved?

Why are you so afraid of these? It's sad. When you have a sound doctrine you can answer anything.

You keep coming back at me because you're mad, deep down you hate the fact I can get running from questions. Your not used to it because you deal with unstudied novices.

So you keep coming back for more, and it's obvious you think pretending is really fooling people.

Look im going to tell you something not to gloat or anything, when we were having those long discussions about James, and Acts, and the Greek, the prodigal son etc. People who were on your side of belief PM'd me telling me to stop being prideful because i proved my point and you knew but were not going to admit it. Im only telling you this so you will stop putting on a show. IF you want to have a real study, then lets do it.

You responded to my post first about works of obedience for those who were ALREADY Christians. GO back a page and look what you were responding to.

It's right there you cant deny it. So please answer the questions you have provoked, or stop talking to me, or ACCEPT MY CHALLENGE FOR A PUBLIC DEBATE.

remember you dont have to do anything. I'll find a hosting congregation in YOUR area, i will come to you. All you have to do is show up.

It would benifeit BOTH of us - besides we have pretty much been doing it already for a while now. May as well be in person

If not thats fine, but at least answer the questions you have provoked which as i proved are very much on topic and dealing with your first post to me.

Cmon lets have a discussion, not show for people no ones looking anyway lol

feedme. I just joined just to ask you something. Are you saying that works save us and not faith? It's sounds like your saying both.

You said if one lives in sin he was never saved. So you believe he was never saved to begin with?

 

[feedm3]

feedme. I just joined just to ask you something. Are you saying that works save us and not faith? It's sounds like your saying both.

You said if one lives in sin he was never saved. So you believe he was never saved to begin with?

No No thats not what i am saying as in what i believe. Im saying it for the sake of argument, as EG believes one who lives in sin was never saved to begin with.

For the sake of arugment I say, okay he was never saved, but why? Becuase he is living in sin. Therfore obedience is essential to salvation. And he believes the same thing he just doesn't realize it.

He says works have nothing to do with salvation, yet if we do not have them we were never saved. Can you see the paradox there?

Good luck, hope you enjoy the site. Good to have you

 

[VCO]

BUt did GOd predetermined the Jews against their will to crucify Christ?

You know SeaBass, I am beginning suspect that you make comments like that, just to throw fuel on the fire and keep the heated debate going. Are you addicted to intense heated debates?

Predetermined plan is a strange term for any Christian to be using.

GOD is ALL KNOWING.

GOD is thee I AM, Who is omnipresent in all time.

GOD is all powerful, yet merciful.

GOD is perfectly Just and yet freely gives out HIS GRACE.

So you can if you want figure it out from there.

Somehow I am beginning to think if I said the sky is blue on a cloudless day, you would argue that it is green.


HERE IS WHAT GOD HIMSELF SAYS, you can choose to believe it or not.

Isaiah 46:10-13 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] I am bringing my righteousness near, it is not far away; and my salvation will not be delayed. I will grant salvation to Zion, my splendor to Israel.

Joshua 24:15 (NIV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

James 4:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

Revelation 3:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.