Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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Sorry if I haven't read a week of responses but I'll respond.
I would agree that we have the deposit of the Holy Spirit as a guarantee that we will be saved and fully receive eternal life. But notice that this deposit of the Holy Spirit is a God thing. It can't be taken away, so whether I continue in the knowledge of "eternal life" intimacy with God the Father or not, I will still have the initial deposit of the Holy Spirit.
It's clear that we have intimacy with both God the Father and the Son and the Spirit. John 17:21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. John 16:13[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
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I would agree that we have the deposit of the Holy Spirit as a guarantee that we will be saved and fully receive eternal life. But notice that this deposit of the Holy Spirit is a God thing. It can't be taken away, so whether I continue in the knowledge of "eternal life" intimacy with God the Father or not, I will still have the initial deposit of the Holy Spirit.
It's clear that we have intimacy with both God the Father and the Son and the Spirit. John 17:21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. John 16:13[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
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[TD]“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
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[TD]“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
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Were you in the group He made those statements to? Yes or No? Regarding Jn. 17:20, doesn't He say that it will be through the message that individuals might become one with God? What is the sin that was repented of when they heard that message prior to being granted the grace to become one with God?
The big question is does that spirit belong to you or God The spirit is to help us keep that unity that is why we have to follow the spirit , the spirit knows the way we don't, So in the end the spirit goes to the Father. He who follows the spirit ends with the Father. But he who does not follow the spirit will not be able to find his way.
people today are making the same mistake the Jews made. They did the works of the law with no faith,Now the believers today wants to have faith without works. We must follow the perfect law of liberty.
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
That is a lot of work brother....
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
That is a lot of work brother....
NO, it is a direct refute of a misunderstanding of what the Apostle meant by what he said. READ THE CONTEXT.
Romans 2:11-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For there is no partiality with God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
[SUP]13 [/SUP] (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
Paul is trying to drive them to understand the futility of thinking they can EVER KEEP the LAW good enough to be saved. In verse 12 you will find that THOSE WHO THINK THEY KEEP THE LAW, EARNING SALVATION, WILL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW. THEREFORE IF YOU ARE JUDGED BY THE LAW, EVEN IF HE FINDS ONLY ONE SIN, HOW MUCH OF THE LAW ARE YOU GUILTY OF BREAKING?
James 2:10 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
AND how many human beings have never sinned? ONE, Jesus Christ! I suggest you throw yourself on HIS MERCY, and Receive HIS GRACE (receiving what cannot be earned or deserved), begging Him for forgiveness.
You still doubt that I am telling you the TRUTH? Then you had better read what Paul wrote on the very next a page of his letter to the Roman Christians.
Romans 3:9-12 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
NOTICE those works are ALL MOTIVATED BY LOVING THE LORD THY GOD, and NOT by a desire to earn Salvation. The requirement to EARN Salvation is to KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS PERFECTLY. That is why we repent, cast ourselves on HIS MERCY and accept HIS perfect payment for our sins, being saved by HIS GRACE, which means it cannot be earned or deserved.
you did it again you keep going of on a tangent stay focused. You want to promote your trinity go to a trinity thread. My post has nothing to do with that.
Bite on this as you go
Bite on this as you go
- 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
"My post has nothing to do with that"; Oh we can tell that.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Philippians 2:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
Philippians 2:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
I Know ...One God one Lord ...he came in the flesh remember
John 1:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
what does this mean? are you going to remove your cross image?
John 1:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
what does this mean? are you going to remove your cross image?
That is simple, because that very portion of Scripture explained what it meant in verse 14.
John 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
It means that Jesus Christ has always existed as part of GOD, specifically as the part that functions like a Son, carrying out the will of the Father.
Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
Ephesians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.
It means:
The Father's function within the Godhead is to WILL what He wants done. (Thus the Father willed Creation, among many, many other things.)
The Son's function within the Godhead has always been to Do the WILL of the Father. (Thus HE is the one that carried out the actual Creation, and the Father's Salvation plans finished on the Cross, and many, many other things.)
The Holy Spirit's function within the Godhead, is to empower us to do the Will of the Father. (Thus He starts by working on our hearts to get us to believe Jesus is the Christ, receiving HIM as LORD bringing us to Salvation, and then HE empowers us to walk in obedience out of LOVE for HIM.)
John 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
It means that Jesus Christ has always existed as part of GOD, specifically as the part that functions like a Son, carrying out the will of the Father.
Colossians 1:16-19 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
Ephesians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.
It means:
The Father's function within the Godhead is to WILL what He wants done. (Thus the Father willed Creation, among many, many other things.)
The Son's function within the Godhead has always been to Do the WILL of the Father. (Thus HE is the one that carried out the actual Creation, and the Father's Salvation plans finished on the Cross, and many, many other things.)
The Holy Spirit's function within the Godhead, is to empower us to do the Will of the Father. (Thus He starts by working on our hearts to get us to believe Jesus is the Christ, receiving HIM as LORD bringing us to Salvation, and then HE empowers us to walk in obedience out of LOVE for HIM.)
You have not learned Christ yet, You have not learned God yet. But the doctrine of man has blinded you.One God One Lord (here they are sharing all things how come not in three equal parts?)
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
.(same spirit)
John 14:17-19
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
(same spirit)
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
.(same spirit)
John 14:17-19
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
(same spirit)
I got news for you, you are the one following a false teacher.
I KNOW the LORD my GOD very personally and intimately, and I KNOW the HOLY SPIRIT dwells in me, and I KNOW that I am IN CHRIST and HE is IN ME. I am not a citizen of this earth, and I KNOW my citizenship is in Heaven. I LONG for that trumpet and shout so I and my brethren can go HOME. I KNOW I am already SAVED, 35 years and counting. But as long as I can draw one more breath, I will continue to LOVE and SERVE HIM HERE.
To answer your question. THERE ARE NOT THREE GODS in the Doctrine of the HOLY TRINITY, Three Personages with three different functions, but ONLY one Deity, and the THREE are co-equally THEE ONE GOD. Just like you are made up of three parts (body, soul, and spirit) YET you are only ONE Human Being, not three.
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1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
All things of God the Father and all things by Lord Jesus Christ if they have all things where is the third party and what does he get? And if you go to the throne you will see Almighty God and the Lamb being worshipped no third party.This is God's word you can't deny that
Rev 5
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
All things of God the Father and all things by Lord Jesus Christ if they have all things where is the third party and what does he get? And if you go to the throne you will see Almighty God and the Lamb being worshipped no third party.This is God's word you can't deny that
Rev 5
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
I do not think you have thought through what that verse in 1 Cor. 8:6 validates:
NOTICE: It says ONE LORD!
Genesis 3:22 (NKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--
John 10:30 (ASV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and the Father are one.
John 14:8-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Philippians 2:5-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
NOTICE: It is telling us that we TOO, are to consider Jesus Christ to be equal with GOD.
><>t<><
I post the following not for you, because I doubt if you will ever look up the verses that support the Doctrine of the Trinity. I post them for other readers to show them that both mainline Christianity and Messianic Christianity believe in the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, and they have THE VERSES THAT VALIDATE THE DOCTRINE OF THE HOLY TRINITY.
NOTICE: It says ONE LORD!
Genesis 3:22 (NKJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"--
John 10:30 (ASV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] I and the Father are one.
John 14:8-9 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us."
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
Philippians 2:5-6 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
NOTICE: It is telling us that we TOO, are to consider Jesus Christ to be equal with GOD.
><>t<><
I post the following not for you, because I doubt if you will ever look up the verses that support the Doctrine of the Trinity. I post them for other readers to show them that both mainline Christianity and Messianic Christianity believe in the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, and they have THE VERSES THAT VALIDATE THE DOCTRINE OF THE HOLY TRINITY.
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F
The Church is the Body of Christ, it is not a part of the 'none that understand, none that seeketh after God' -group.Paul is showing that the righteousness that the law demands can only be kept if we are transformed, if we have a new nature. He said the problem is not the law but me. Who can free me. Thank God, Jesus Christ can. For what the law could not do in that it was weakened through sinful flesh - God DID by sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh.
So, then NOW - we can get past chapter 3 - we can be free of condemnation if we walk in the Spirit & not according to the flesh. NOW - through the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh.
NOW - no one who is BORN of God continues to sin. NOW - Anyone who says they know Him & walk in darkness is a liar!
NOW - Christ died SO THAT:
Rom_6:6 And we know that our old being has been put to death with Christ on his cross, in order that the power of the sinful self might be destroyed, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin.
1Pe_2:24 Christ himself carried our sins in his body to the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness.
Rom 6:5 For since we have become one with him in dying as he did, in the same way we shall be one with him by being raised to life as he was.
Rom 6:19 (I use everyday language because of the weakness of your natural selves.) At one time (in chapter 3) you surrendered yourselves entirely as slaves to impurity (none righteous no not one) and wickedness for wicked purposes. In the same way you must now surrender yourselves entirely as slaves of righteousness for holy purposes.
So, then NOW - we can get past chapter 3 - we can be free of condemnation if we walk in the Spirit & not according to the flesh. NOW - through the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh.
NOW - no one who is BORN of God continues to sin. NOW - Anyone who says they know Him & walk in darkness is a liar!
NOW - Christ died SO THAT:
Rom_6:6 And we know that our old being has been put to death with Christ on his cross, in order that the power of the sinful self might be destroyed, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin.
1Pe_2:24 Christ himself carried our sins in his body to the cross, so that we might die to sin and live for righteousness.
Rom 6:5 For since we have become one with him in dying as he did, in the same way we shall be one with him by being raised to life as he was.
Rom 6:19 (I use everyday language because of the weakness of your natural selves.) At one time (in chapter 3) you surrendered yourselves entirely as slaves to impurity (none righteous no not one) and wickedness for wicked purposes. In the same way you must now surrender yourselves entirely as slaves of righteousness for holy purposes.