Old Thread Update: Frustrations with Dating Christians // Dating People With a Past

[lav]

As far as checked pasts- even with serious repentance and devotion to God, it will always be a struggle. If someone had an addiction, it's not so much that they repented and now they are acceptable to date but that they are and will always be a work in progress.

For example, my ex.bf was very straightforward with me about some anger problems he has and gave me past examples with his ex's, he told me about the verbal abuse towards her, he told me about the physical abuse he had from his father, and how he loathed himself. He seriously repented for everything he had done, sought counselling, is a devoted Christian. But regardless. This stuff came up towards me when I was with him. I came along beside him to his counselling sessions. But at then end of it all, the past was too much in the present and destroyed us.

i'm so tired, because i really did stay up all night and i can't really seem to explain what happened, but i want to read this whole thread some other time. i'm sorry persNickety, i just happened to glance through and find your comment. though i think you are justified through what you are explaining in terms of abuse being something that possibly can't be cured, i think there are other kinds of mistakes that people may have made in which there is total redemption and a new life being lived that is 100% dead to the past.

see, i understand your views, but i think there is a huge difference between someone who has been actively abusive and someone who just made some personal mistakes that didn't really ' harm ' anyone but themselves along the way.

( just to clarify, i am not saying that someone who is an alcoholic or drug addict can't hurt people before they reach sobriety and have a major change in heart and shift in perspective... but there is a difference between hurting people because you are destroying yourself and it affects their lives, and having a cluster b personality disorder in which one actively takes their abuse out on people. )

as far as overcoming addictions and therefore always being a work in progress... that doesn't seem like a complete statement to me, because aren't we all ?

however i will say, on the topic of abuse, through all my experience with life in this area i have not known of one case personal or otherwise where an abuser changed for the better. ever. i have read tons and lived this enough to know something about it.

on the other hand i know alcoholics and drug addicts who have been sober for 4 to 10, 20 and 30+ years or more. of all those i have met they are amazing, humble, wise, deep and compassionate people who now live perfectly normal lives. they are capable of being honest with themselves and have repented of all the poor decisions they made in the past and are normally quite ashamed that they ever fell into such a trap. they continually do work to grow and mature in all kinds of ways and are some of the loveliest people i have ever had the pleasure of meeting.

the great thing about them is that they understand about second chances and they understand a lot about intense pain and self loathing, and i have seen in them a quality that i do not find in even very many christians. it is this... they *value* life and every moment they have on this earth now, so much, because they know what it is to truly suffer and lose everything because of something they have done by their own hand. in the aa groups i have attended where i live, i find almost all the people more genuinely humble than i think i have found in any church i have been in.

maybe it's because i understand them and they understand me. there is something like a sparkle in their eye that reminds me of the feeling i get with Christ. a joy and celebration of each moment of life, knowing how delicate it is and how fortunate we are to be alive and have the chance to turn away from bondage. i don't get that depth from any of the churches i have attended. most people in those places don't seem to have gone to the dark corners of knowing what it is to be *truly* humbled and helpless, having never hit the ' rock bottom ' of self loathing that recovered addicts know. the honesty and embarrassment of knowing you did not do your best by others or yourself, and of course God.

i have also found this with many people who have had near-death experiences.

there is so much i could say on this, but i'm pretty tired.

 

[lav]

I couldn't date a guy who expects the pure beautiful Christian girl. Well actually he wouldn't accept me in the first place, because of who I am, and my past, and I would feel awkward and stifled too. I think you make a great point about people holding their pasts against them and only wanting to date virgins.

it's possible that it's obvious at this point, but nor could i.

i like what you said here.

 

[gypsygirl]

in many ways, i have more trust of guys who had some devastating life experience -- or at least encountered things that have shaken his foundation. sometimes i don't know what to make of someone who presents as having lead "a charmed life", and the road hasn't been bumpy at all.

maybe that's more a statement about myself? or maybe i'm just drawn to those kinds of people.

i tend to extend a lot of grace on guy's past. and i suppose i expect the same attitude as well, considering there are things i'd definitely do different.

my biggest issue with finding the "right kind of guys" are the numbers of christian guys who seem to be solid in their faith, but eventually (some much sooner than later) present with a broken moral compass, usually as it relates to sex.

guys who i've had lengthy discussions about the bible, interpretation, evangelism, right and wrong, and not two hours later are telling me about how they can't reasonably expect to hold themselves to that standard because it's just not feasible/possible. that line sort of ticks me off, too. like what does that say about the rest of us who actually make that a goal and/or priority?

not long ago, one guy tried to sell me that the "pre-marital sex thing" was more of a custom/culture thing, not really applicable for today's world. laughable, really.

it's sort of sad. i've lost respect for a few guys that i had previously expected different from. a one of my closest friends (whom i considered a bit of a mentor at an earlier time in my life) won't even discuss the "right or wrong-ness" with me any more because he "knows that it's wrong, but doesn't really care right now".

on the other hand, i suppose we all have our "respectable sins".

 

[Nautilus]

And this is equally as ridiculous as wanting to marry a virgin. The whole concept of "sexual compatibility" is so silly. Forgive me if this comes across crude at all, but really it comes down to two things. Does he have man parts? Does she have lady parts? Then they are compatible. lol

While humorous this opinion is a bit immature. Sexual compatibility extends further then do our parts fit together. And while it probably wouldnt be important for two virgins to even worry about this due to a lack of information, for two people who have 'ahd experience' thye probably have a much clearer idea of things that excite them, turn them on, and what they enjoy. To willfully ignore this before stepping into a life long commitment with someone is almost irresponsible.

Are you sure? . My ex blamed me for him getting back into drugs lol.



And just to clarify... I've never done drugs in my life...

I think it's easy though to blame an ex you are already mad at for simple things like that. I mean why not make you feel worse if you were the one that ended the relationship, petty but probably slightly effective.

 

[tourist]

While humorous this opinion is a bit immature. Sexual compatibility extends further then do our parts fit together. And while it probably wouldnt be important for two virgins to even worry about this due to a lack of information, for two people who have 'ahd experience' thye probably have a much clearer idea of things that excite them, turn them on, and what they enjoy. To willfully ignore this before stepping into a life long commitment with someone is almost irresponsible.



I think it's easy though to blame an ex you are already mad at for simple things like that. I mean why not make you feel worse if you were the one that ended the relationship, petty but probably slightly effective.

This is not our first time around the block. Very good post.

 

[gypsygirl]

Sexual compatibility extends further then do our parts fit together. And while it probably wouldnt be important for two virgins to even worry about this due to a lack of information, for two people who have 'ahd experience' thye probably have a much clearer idea of things that excite them, turn them on, and what they enjoy. To willfully ignore this before stepping into a life long commitment with someone is almost irresponsible.

i have to disagree with this.

if you're past the "physical attraction" hurdle and you really embrace the notion of what marriage is about - your body no longer being your own and the unselfishness of love, i struggle to wonder exactly what previous knowledge needs to be considered.

borrowing a football analogy: does one really need to compare the play book and hash out the fine details to ascertain sexual compatibility? i just don't think so. i don't think that's ignoring previous information as much as recognizing that previous experience may not be as relevant to the marital relationship, considering we're all evolving creatures and i would hope that premarital sex is different than marital sex, in both attitude and intention.

certainly, if you're asexual or something akin-- yeah, i'd expect that to be addressed. but short of the extreme, unusual or health issues, i think you can sort the majority of that stuff after you're married.

maybe that's scary for some, but i think that being overly concerned about that says more about the confidence you have in the person you're choosing to marry.

 

[tourist]

i'm so tired, because i really did stay up all night and i can't really seem to explain what happened, but i want to read this whole thread some other time. i'm sorry persNickety, i just happened to glance through and find your comment. though i think you are justified through what you are explaining in terms of abuse being something that possibly can't be cured, i think there are other kinds of mistakes that people may have made in which there is total redemption and a new life being lived that is 100% dead to the past.

see, i understand your views, but i think there is a huge difference between someone who has been actively abusive and someone who just made some personal mistakes that didn't really ' harm ' anyone but themselves along the way.

( just to clarify, i am not saying that someone who is an alcoholic or drug addict can't hurt people before they reach sobriety and have a major change in heart and shift in perspective... but there is a difference between hurting people because you are destroying yourself and it affects their lives, and having a cluster b personality disorder in which one actively takes their abuse out on people. )

as far as overcoming addictions and therefore always being a work in progress... that doesn't seem like a complete statement to me, because aren't we all ?

however i will say, on the topic of abuse, through all my experience with life in this area i have not known of one case personal or otherwise where an abuser changed for the better. ever. i have read tons and lived this enough to know something about it.

on the other hand i know alcoholics and drug addicts who have been sober for 4 to 10, 20 and 30+ years or more. of all those i have met they are amazing, humble, wise, deep and compassionate people who now live perfectly normal lives. they are capable of being honest with themselves and have repented of all the poor decisions they made in the past and are normally quite ashamed that they ever fell into such a trap. they continually do work to grow and mature in all kinds of ways and are some of the loveliest people i have ever had the pleasure of meeting.

the great thing about them is that they understand about second chances and they understand a lot about intense pain and self loathing, and i have seen in them a quality that i do not find in even very many christians. it is this... they *value* life and every moment they have on this earth now, so much, because they know what it is to truly suffer and lose everything because of something they have done by their own hand. in the aa groups i have attended where i live, i find almost all the people more genuinely humble than i think i have found in any church i have been in.

maybe it's because i understand them and they understand me. there is something like a sparkle in their eye that reminds me of the feeling i get with Christ. a joy and celebration of each moment of life, knowing how delicate it is and how fortunate we are to be alive and have the chance to turn away from bondage. i don't get that depth from any of the churches i have attended. most people in those places don't seem to have gone to the dark corners of knowing what it is to be *truly* humbled and helpless, having never hit the ' rock bottom ' of self loathing that recovered addicts know. the honesty and embarrassment of knowing you did not do your best by others or yourself, and of course God.

i have also found this with many people who have had near-death experiences.

there is so much i could say on this, but i'm pretty tired.

This post is outstanding.

 

[Nautilus]

i have to disagree with this.

if you're past the "physical attraction" hurdle and you really embrace the notion of what marriage is about - your body no longer being your own and the unselfishness of love, i struggle to wonder exactly what previous knowledge needs to be considered.

borrowing a football analogy: does one really need to compare the play book and hash out the fine details to ascertain sexual compatibility? i just don't think so. i don't think that's ignoring previous information as much as recognizing that previous experience may not be as relevant to the marital relationship, considering we're all evolving creatures and i would hope that premarital sex is different than marital sex, in both attitude and intention.

certainly, if you're asexual or something akin-- yeah, i'd expect that to be addressed. but short of the extreme, unusual or health issues, i think you can sort the majority of that stuff after you're married.

maybe that's scary for some, but i think that being overly concerned about that says more about the confidence you have in the person you're choosing to marry.

I think people are negating the myriad of various acts that can constitute a sexual relationship and the enjoyment of them versus the desire to never participate in them they can fluctuate between people. Like if marriage partner A really enjoys this certain act, but partner B is like no way am I ever doing that, well then there is a problem. Hence why I think people should at least try to end up with people of like openmindess vs. experimentality(probably not a word). Otherwise if you stick someone who is more sexually adventurous with a prude youre probably going to have a bad time.

 

[ChandlerFan]

While humorous this opinion is a bit immature. Sexual compatibility extends further then do our parts fit together. And while it probably wouldnt be important for two virgins to even worry about this due to a lack of information, for two people who have 'ahd experience' thye probably have a much clearer idea of things that excite them, turn them on, and what they enjoy. To willfully ignore this before stepping into a life long commitment with someone is almost irresponsible.

I asserted that the only thing necessary for sexual compatibility are the male and female parts. I will admit that emotional, mental, spiritual, and sexual health are also important and a lack of health in one of those areas could prove to be a barrier to physical intimacy, but I don't think that makes what I said immature in any way. Maybe just oversimplified.

And as gypsygirl said, experience is not necessary for sexual compatibility.

 

[Nautilus]

Re: Old Thread Update: Frustrations with Dating Christians // Dating People With a

after having a conservation with someone Ill amend my opinion to what they enlightened me to. Exact matches in sexual compatibilities aren't necessary so yes a virgin could be with someone more experienced and have a fulfilling sex life in that marriage. The important part would be each spouses attitude towards sexuality as a whole.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

Re: Old Thread Update: Frustrations with Dating Christians // Dating People With a

It states in the Bible to keep from sexual sin. This means that sex is for marriage, so sexual comparability becomes a non issue. It becomes an issue when a partner has had sexual relations before, and this affects their attitude toward sexual relations. It becomes a hurdle that a couple has to go through, I imagine it's especially difficult for the partner who has. Not dealing with it is irresponsible.

i know I sound harsh but I'm trying to go from Bible. Truth.

On another note, I wonder if it becomes pressuring for a christian to settle on a person who is another christian.

 

[biscuit]

LOVE, FAITH, TRUST & RESPECT are requirements necessary for a complete, wholesome relationship. Show me a failed relationship or marriage and I will point to those necessary ingredients. Have seen men & women initiated a relationship with all 4 ingredients missing. And we wonder why the relationship failed so miserably. What attracted most of them to one another? sex and false promises.

 

[jennyll]

Re: Old Thread Update: Frustrations with Dating Christians // Dating People With a

Just wanted to say thank you everybody for the posts, very helpful indeed. I'm still pretty new here but as I'm in a bad relationship at the moment, it's been very encouraging to read all your comments! God bless! Jenny x

 

[Pheonix]

Personally ChandlerFan, in reference to your question for back, I bumpbed this thread because I was having frustrations about relationships and wanted to maybe be able to talk it out I guess.

I'm curious, that is sort of creepy like 60+ men wanting to marry young virgins. That is a very much tad creepy to me... Sorry but sometimes age is not just a number.

There was a time not so long ago when 60 year olds marrying 16 year olds was normal and not creepy simply because at 60 if they were still alive by then they had their lives sorted, may have been well off with a good career and younger men simply were unable to care for a family for various reasons, usually involving money. Actually that kind of sounds like the way things are becoming again these days.

 

[ArtsieSteph]

Re: Old Thread Update: Frustrations with Dating Christians // Dating People With a

So has anyone been having any luck with dating christians since the last post? Or have there been more frustrations?

I have a frustration: people seeming to hop from person to person as far as their seeming interest in that person. And Im guilty of it too.... But is that human nature or is it just in our instant gratification society that we think of talking to people and getting to know them is like looking in a catologue? That person didnt seem right, try this one.

 

[Nightmairz]

Re: Old Thread Update: Frustrations with Dating Christians // Dating People With a

Jesus ..correct me if im wrong never picked an apostle that was perfect. even condemned the pharacies for them thinking acting the part of higher then thou. find me some one perfect i'd like to know them.alot of jibber on this that who what where when y.in reallity to be blessed in a relationship is to make God #1..pray together watch what is edifying.....to instruct and improve in moral and religious knowledge..thoughts and talk shouldnt leave your maker in the dust..i think alot is everyone gets caught up in the person .then things turn.if any issue with not making Christ 1st the one who gets distracted needs a time out to think or just go away..pretty simple.remember if Christ was sitting with you 2 would it be ok with him.biblically..if not then its not...and thats the way it is folks...period

 

[ChandlerFan]

So has anyone been having any luck with dating christians since the last post? Or have there been more frustrations?

I have a frustration: people seeming to hop from person to person as far as their seeming interest in that person. And Im guilty of it too.... But is that human nature or is it just in our instant gratification society that we think of talking to people and getting to know them is like looking in a catologue? That person didnt seem right, try this one.

To be honest, I think that some of that comes from the nature of a place like this where you can pop into chat and get to know new people all the time. That's why I think that the chat room can be really unhealthy at times. But people tend to be more invested and intrigued when initially getting to know a person, and once they do they might reach a point where they feel like they're incompatible with that other person they've been talking to, or they find someone that they connect even better with and turn more of their attention toward them. I think that tends to happen more when a person is kind of on the prowl for a significant other.
There's a big difference between being interested in someone and committing to be in a dating relationship with them, though. I can understand the frustration when someone seems to be interested in you and then their interest appears to wane, but in the end it's probably better that it happened now rather than later on, and hopefully they are unselfish enough to continue engaging with you as a friend even if it's not as frequently as before.