Contradiction of WORDS

[SeaBass]

Jerking phrases out of Scripture because they contain the words you are looking for do not an exegesis make.

Work of faith is the resulting obedience of the faith alone which saved them.

Prove it was taken out of context. What else was it Jesus saw that is called faith if it were not the works those men did before Jesus' own eyes?

1 Thess 1:3 - work modifies faith so faith is something that is worked, faith is active which is the exact opposite of a dead, dormant faith only.


Comparing 1 Thess 1:3 with Rev 2:2:

1 Thess 1:3 Paul says------ "work of faith"---------"labor of love"---------- "patience of hope"
Rev 2:2 Jesus says-------- "I know thyworks"----- "thy labor"------------ "and thy patience"

And if Paul excluded ALL works in Eph 2:9 then why is he (and Jesus in Rev 2:2) talking about works? Can one be saved WITHOUT these works? No, so evidently these works are NOT excluded in Eph 2:9.


If one has a faith does not produce works, will that faith save him?

 

[Elin]

1 Thess 1:3 remembering your "WORK of faith"

Jerking phrases out of Scripture because they contain the words you are looking for
do not an exegesis make.

"Work of faith" is the resulting obedience of the faith alone which saved them.

Prove it was taken out of context.

Previously addressed. . .and didn't say context, I said exegesis.

1 Thess 1:3 - work modifies faith

Nope. . .your grammar needs some work.

 

[SeaBass]

To the blind they do appear as conditions.

To those who have eyes that see, they are so much more than a paltry condition.

They are are a divine revelation of the nature of the gospel in his Son.

Within the unbiased mind, dipping in the river 7 times is easily understood as a condition God placed upon Naaman receiving the free gift of healing.

 

[SeaBass]

Not for the blind man who can't read Eph 2:8-9.

Nor for the man who sets the Scriptures against themselves,
proving he does not understand them correctly,
for the word of God written does not contradict itself.

It is contradictory only in his blind misunderstanding.

Your post here refutes nothing I said. So I repeat what I said:

Salvation is not a free gift????????

Jn 6:27 "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

Two things about this verse:

1) Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life. Issued settle that salvation requires works.

 

[SeaBass]

The good news is the truth of the word of God is not based on what it sounds like to you.

Nothing here in this post of yours either....no proof, no refutation at all.

 

[SeaBass]

You'll have to ask the gift giver that one.

I asked: Would Naaman have received God's free gift of grace WITHOUT WORKS?

Your inability, unwillingness to give a straight up or down 'yes' or 'no' answer is very telling. You avoided the question.

 

[SeaBass]

If it's not an example of salvation, it cannot apply.

You are misapplying and mishandling the Scriptures.

It most certainly is an example of God's free grace having a condition of work (dipping) with the work (dipping) earning Naaman nothing. You simply cannot, have not refuted it.

 

[elf3]

Your post here refutes nothing I said. So I repeat what I said:

Salvation is not a free gift????????

Jn 6:27 "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed."

Two things about this verse:

1) Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life. Issued settle that salvation requires works.

Actually you are right. Salvation is not a free gift. Jesus paid the price for our salvation. Done, bought, paid for, finished.

You cannot add to the price Jesus paid for if you do then it means Jesus didn't pay enough for us to be saved.

 

[SeaBass]

Only God can answer if he would have healed Naaman had he not dipped.

God's purpose was not a string attached, but a divine revelation of the nature of the saving gospel
in his Son, that healing is cleansing (of sin, our real malady).

The blind do not see these things, because they do not really understand the gospel (Eph 2:8-9),
having set the Scriptures against themselves.

The bible tells us God put the condition of dipping upon the healing. God did not change His mind or make changes to the condition. Therefore Naaman had to dip (2 Kings 5:14) to be clean. It's YOU not God that is trying to find a way to get rid of the condition.

 

[elf3]

I asked: Would Naaman have received God's free gift of grace WITHOUT WORKS?

Your inability, unwillingness to give a straight up or down 'yes' or 'no' answer is very telling. You avoided the question.

Naaman received out of obedience to God not by working at it.

 

[SeaBass]

I'm flatly denying that it is an example of salvation,

and flatly asserting that because it is not an example, it cannot apply to salvation,

and is a misapplication and mishandling of Scripture.

More AVOIDANCE to the issue.

It DOES NOT MATTER if it does or does not have to do with Naaman's salvation for is a clear, unambiguous example of God requiring a work to receive His grace yet that work earned Namman nothing.

 

[SeaBass]

hmmm...well, let's talk about Naaman for a sec...

2 Kings 5:1
Now Naaman, captain of the army of the king of Aram, was a great man with his master, and highly respected, because by him the LORD had given victory to Aram. The man was also a valiant warrior, but he was a leper.

seems Naaman was accustomed to performing great feats, and being recognized for them.
but he might not have thought to go to Israel for healing but for the little girl who had been kidnapped from Israel who told Naaman's wife about Elisha, that Elisha would be able to heal him.

so what did Naaman do? v. 5
He departed and took with him ten talents of silver and six thousand shekels of gold and ten changes of clothes.

he took a whole lotta gifts with which to purchase his healing. Naaman, it seems, was not about to be healed
without earning it.
when Elisha not only didn't come to see Naaman himself, but sent a messenger telling him to wash in the Jordan, (v. 11-12)

But Naaman was furious and went away and said, “Behold, I thought, ‘He will surely come out to me and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place and cure the leper.’
“Are not Abanah and Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?” So he turned and went away in a rage.

doesn't sound all that humble and obedient to me.

if Naaman hadn't had servants with him to convince him that although it wasn't performing some great feat,
i guess we'll never know what may have happened. v. 13

Then his servants came near and spoke to him and said, “My father, had the prophet told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?”

Naaman didn't really go willingly...he had to be convinced. (persuaded...pistis...faith!)
it's the Gospel. ♥

The issue is God required a work (dipping in the river 7 times) for Naaman to receive God's free gift of healing. So did the work Naaman did in dipping mean he EARNED his healing therefore grace had NOTHING to do with his healing?

 

[SeaBass]

1Jn_4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.

Question is "love" works?

Jn 14:15 "if ye love Me, keep my commandments".

Many verses tie love to works/obeying.

 

[SeaBass]

Previously addressed. . .and didn't say context, I said exegesis.


Nope. . .your grammar needs some work.

Another post with NOTHING....no proof, no refutation.

 

[SeaBass]

Actually you are right. Salvation is not a free gift. Jesus paid the price for our salvation. Done, bought, paid for, finished.

You cannot add to the price Jesus paid for if you do then it means Jesus didn't pay enough for us to be saved.

You misunderstand my posts. I AM saying salvation IS a free gift to man as Jn 6:27 shows everlasting life is something Jesus GIVES, He does not charge for it, but He gives it for FREE. But Jesus said one must LABOR/work for this free gift He gives. So obviously the labor/work does not/cannot earn this free gift Christ gives.

 

[Elin]

Not for the blind man who can't read Eph 2:8-9.

Nor for the man who sets the Scriptures against themselves,
proving he does not understand them correctly,
for the word of God written does not contradict itself.

It is contradictory only in his blind misunderstanding.

Your post here refutes nothing I said. So I repeat what I said:

Salvation is not a free gift????????

1) Jesus said to WORK for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.
Issued settle that salvation requires works.

Not for the blind man who can't read Eph 2:8-9.

Nor for the man who sets the Scriptures against themselves,
proving he does not understand them correctly,
for the word of God written does not contradict itself.

 

[SeaBass]

Naaman received out of obedience to God not by working at it.

Naaman received his healing "OUT OF OBEDIENCE to God". So did that obedience to God mean that Naaman was trying to earn God's free gift? No.

Secondly, Naaman's obedience to God was in WORKING by going and dipping as God said, so his obedience to God was "WORKING at it" as seen by his going and dipping.

 

[elf3]

You misunderstand my posts. I AM saying salvation IS a free gift to man as Jn 6:27 shows everlasting life is something Jesus GIVES, He does not charge for it, but He gives it for FREE. But Jesus said one must LABOR/work for this free gift He gives. So obviously the labor/work does not/cannot earn this free gift Christ gives.

But there is your stumbling block...you still feel we have a price to pay. If Jesus already paid the price why would He require us to pay more? With our accepting of Jesus we need to be obedient..not pay more. Like I said before if we need to pay more for our salvation it means the price Jesus paid wasn't enough.

 

[SeaBass]

Not for the blind man who can't read Eph 2:8-9.

Nor for the man who sets the Scriptures against themselves,
proving he does not understand them correctly,
for the word of God written does not contradict itself.

When Paul said "not of works" in Eph 2:9 does that phrase eliminate the good works in Eph 2:10 that God preordained the Christian to walk in?

 

[Alligator]

Not for the blind man who can't read Eph 2:8-9.

Nor for the man who sets the Scriptures against themselves,
proving he does not understand them correctly,
for the word of God written does not contradict itself.

It is contradictory only in his blind misunderstanding.

To the blind they do appear as conditions.

To those who have eyes that see, they are so much more than a paltry condition.

They are are a divine revelation of the nature of the gospel in his Son.

Within the unbiased mind, dipping in the river 7 times is easily understood as a condition God placed upon Naaman receiving the free gift of healing.

Its quite easy to offer acerbic comments Elin, not quite so easy to provide a legitimate defense of your position.