Contradiction of WORDS

[Atwood]

Sing it:

Marvelous, infinite matchless grace,
freely bestowed . . .

For by grace you have been saved through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.

(No nonsense about "obedient works" vs "meritorious works" -- NO WORKS of man saves.

 

[SeaBass]

What you fail to understand about the whole Ephesians 2 quote is the simple fact that (THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES) is directed at THE SAVING FAITH THAT SAVES YOU.......IT is the FAITH of the SON of GOD (JESUS) that saves you....nothing you do can supplant and or over ride the saving faith of Jesus as applied to the simple acknowledgement of Jesus as LORD....the WORKS that follow such as the first act of obedience (IMMERSION) is a PUBLIC TESTIMONY of RECIEVING what JESUS has ALREADY DONE INWARDLY......so simple and yet your mind is like the Pharisees...closed to anything but your own hammered out theology and that which has been tainted by Campbellism!

"that not of yourselves" means salvation came from God, not man. But this in now way says nor implies that the salvation that came from God came to man unconditionally or man has no role in his own salvation.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/716-is-faith-the-gift-of-ephesians-2-8 Faith the Gift of Ephesians 2:8?

Wayne Jackson

The passage cited above (Eph. 2:8), as a proof-text for the idea that “faith” is strictly a “gift,” does not, in fact, teach that idea at all. The text reads as follows:

“For by grace have you been saved through faith; and that not of your selves, it is the gift of God ….”
​

There is no specifically-stated antecedent for “gift” in this context. However, it is to be inferred. The gift is the salvation that is implied by the verb “saved.”

“For by grace are you saved through faith; and this not of yourselves, it [the salvation] is gift of God….”
​

Grammatically speaking, there is no agreement between “faith” and “gift.” Faith (pisteos) in the Greek Testament is a feminine form, while “gift” (doron) is neuter gender. The “gift” is not “faith.”

Some have objected to this argument, contending that the Greek noun for “salvation” is also feminine, thus it cannot be the antecedent of “gift.” While it is true that the Greek noun, “salvation,” is a feminine form, the verbal construction found here used in connection with a neuter pronoun (“this”) requires that the antecedent must also be neuter, thus, “salvation” [understood], not “faith” (see: Lockhart, 86; Cottrell, 200).

Professor Arthur Patzia of Fuller Theological Seminary, who believes, “theologically” speaking, that faith is a gift, acknowledges that “the Greek sentence [Eph. 2:8] does not permit such an identification, because the two words differ grammatically” (185).

Even John Calvin interpreted the “gift” of this passage as “salvation,” and not faith (144). This, of course, is in perfect harmony with Paul’s declaration elsewhere that the “gift of God is eternal life” (Rom. 6:23).

A Gift Does Not Negate Personal Responsibility

Even if it could be established (from other sources) that “faith” is, in some sense, a “gift,” that truth alone would not establish the proposition argued by our Calvinistic friend. Faith conceivably could be viewed as a “gift,” but if so, only in the same sense that “repentance” is a gift.

When Peter declared to his Hebrew kinsmen that God had “granted” (given) the Gentiles “repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18), the sense was this. The Gentiles, along with their Jewish neighbors, were granted the opportunity to repent. The text certainly does not suggest that they had no responsibility to act themselves in the repentance process (cf. Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30).

Perhaps, then, it might be said, in a similar sense, that we have been given the privilege to believe — by the exercise of our wills, as we contemplate the evidence provided by God that produces faith (cf. Rom. 10:17).

Those who argue that salvation is solely of God’s sovereignty, and that forgiveness is “unconditional,” have set themselves against the Savior (Heb. 5:9), regardless of how sincere they may be.

References

• Calvin, John. 1965. The Epistle to the Ephesians. Oliver & Boyd: Edinburgh, Scotland.
• Cottrell, Jack. 2002. The Faith Once For All. College Press: Joplin, MO.
• Lockhart, Clinton. n.d. Principles of Interpretation. Gospel Light: Delight, AR.
• Patzia, Arthur. 1990. Ephesians, Colossians, Philemon. Hendrickson: Peabody, MA.

 

[Elin]

Do you believe in OSAS ?

If you're asking if I believe once God births one into eternal everlasting life,

God may take that eternal everlasting life away from him, my answer is no.

I don't think Scripture teaches that God births again into eternal life the wrong people,
so that he has to unbirth them out of eternal life again.

 

[SeaBass]

No actually she is right and it is you who is twisting this to fit your theology of works based, earned salvation.....more heresy for sure!

NOT BY WORKS of RIGHTEOUES WHICH WE HAVE DONE!

"by works of righteousness which we have done" refers to works of merit and not obedience to God.,

 

[dcontroversal]

"that not of yourselves" means salvation came from God, not man. But this in now way says nor implies that the salvation that came from God came to man unconditionally or man has no role in his own salvation.


https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/716-is-faith-the-gift-of-ephesians-2-8 Faith the Gift of Ephesians 2:8?

Wayne Jackson

The passage cited above (Eph. 2:8), as a proof-text for the idea that “faith” is strictly a “gift,” does not, in fact, teach that idea at all. The text reads as follows:

“For by grace have you been saved through faith; and that not of your selves, it is the gift of God ….”
​

There is no specifically-stated antecedent for “gift” in this context. However, it is to be inferred. The gift is the salvation that is implied by the verb “saved.”

“For by grace are you saved through faith; and this not of yourselves, it [the salvation] is gift of God….”
​

Grammatically speaking, there is no agreement between “faith” and “gift.” Faith (pisteos) in the Greek Testament is a feminine form, while “gift” (doron) is neuter gender. The “gift” is not “faith.”

Some have objected to this argument, contending that the Greek noun for “salvation” is also feminine, thus it cannot be the antecedent of “gift.” While it is true that the Greek noun, “salvation,” is a feminine form, the verbal construction found here used in connection with a neuter pronoun (“this”) requires that the antecedent must also be neuter, thus, “salvation” [understood], not “faith” (see: Lockhart, 86; Cottrell, 200).

Professor Arthur Patzia of Fuller Theological Seminary, who believes, “theologically” speaking, that faith is a gift, acknowledges that “the Greek sentence [Eph. 2:8] does not permit such an identification, because the two words differ grammatically” (185).

Even John Calvin interpreted the “gift” of this passage as “salvation,” and not faith (144). This, of course, is in perfect harmony with Paul’s declaration elsewhere that the “gift of God is eternal life” (Rom. 6:23).

A Gift Does Not Negate Personal Responsibility

Even if it could be established (from other sources) that “faith” is, in some sense, a “gift,” that truth alone would not establish the proposition argued by our Calvinistic friend. Faith conceivably could be viewed as a “gift,” but if so, only in the same sense that “repentance” is a gift.

When Peter declared to his Hebrew kinsmen that God had “granted” (given) the Gentiles “repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18), the sense was this. The Gentiles, along with their Jewish neighbors, were granted the opportunity to repent. The text certainly does not suggest that they had no responsibility to act themselves in the repentance process (cf. Acts 2:38; 3:19; 17:30).

Perhaps, then, it might be said, in a similar sense, that we have been given the privilege to believe — by the exercise of our wills, as we contemplate the evidence provided by God that produces faith (cf. Rom. 10:17).

Those who argue that salvation is solely of God’s sovereignty, and that forgiveness is “unconditional,” have set themselves against the Savior (Heb. 5:9), regardless of how sincere they may be.

References

• Calvin, John. 1965. The Epistle to the Ephesians. Oliver & Boyd: Edinburgh, Scotland.
• Cottrell, Jack. 2002. The Faith Once For All. College Press: Joplin, MO.
• Lockhart, Clinton. n.d. Principles of Interpretation. Gospel Light: Delight, AR.
• Patzia, Arthur. 1990. Ephesians, Colossians, Philemon. Hendrickson: Peabody, MA.

Again you prove your grammatically ignorant view of (that not of yourselves) as it is directed at the word FAITH......! It is the faith of Jesus that saves us.....period....not of ourselves..it is a spiritual gift...period!

 

[Elin]

Faith is only a gift in the sense God has allowed men to have faith and be saved.
Faith is NOT a gift in the sense that man can only have faith if God gives it to him.

Now that's rich.

Not only is "free" not really free, but a "gift" is not really a gift.

Such perverse altering of even language in the irrefutable texts
for the sake of one's contra-Biblical theology.

This hermeneutic can make the Scriptures say anything and everything.

 

[SeaBass]

Nobody has to work for salvation, for it is a free gift given by the Lord our God.
Your actions show that you are saved and a follower of Christ. If no actions of good deeds or obedience are evident in your life it shows that you are not saved and a follower of Christ.
Even the Lord says those who are His sheep hear His voice and follow what He said.

No one has to do the work of believing to be saved? The unbelievers are saved?

No one has to do the work of repenting to be saved? The impenitent are saved?

No one has to do the owrk of confessing to be saved? The deniers of Christ will be saved?

No one has to do the work in submitting to baptism for remission of sins? Those in their unforgiven sins will be saved?

 

[SeaBass]

no one...no one...no one can possibly do enough to earn anything from the Most High God.

i see it not as a condition, but as proof for Naaman that the healing came from God.

I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift. As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.

 

[Elin]

"that not of yourselves" means salvation came from God, not man. But this
in now way says nor implies that the salvation that came from God came to man unconditionally or man has no role in his own salvation.

If you have any role in it, then something is of yourself.

You cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Atwood]

I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift. As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.

NOT OF WORKS LEST SEABASS SHOULD BOAST

 

[Atwood]

"
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Atwood]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Elin]

"by works of righteousness which we have done" refers to
works of merit and not obedience to God.,

All works associated with receiving salvation are works of merit.

You cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Atwood]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[Elin]

I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift.
As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.

This "simple point" is nothing more than your corruption of language.

You cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Atwood]

he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why make ye trial of God, that ye should put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they.

 

[SeaBass]

Hey gecko...this is another lying assumption that works for salvation heretics spread about people who understand that it is BY GRACE that you ARE SAVED OUT OF FAITH.....NOT one person who believes in salvation by grace through faith on this site teaches the lie that you and sea perch spread about us saying that YOU do not have to follow God's word.

Your lack of understanding of biblical salvation is glaring.

Where have I or Alligator said God owes anyone salvation?????

Nowhere, so you make up your false strawman.


What the bible teaches is God put conditions upon his free gift and meeting those condition cannot in anyway earn them.

According to your theology, Christ must have been contradicting Himself in Jn 6:27 when Christ said first to "labour for the meat that endures unto everlasting life" and then Jesus said He "Gives" this gift for free.

 

[SeaBass]

and, sadly, it implies there's something lacking in the Work of Christ on our behalf...

Where did Christ ever say "do nothing and thou shalt be saved for I have done all there needs to be done for salvation"??

 

[Atwood]

he helped them much that had believed through grace;
Acts 18

 

[Elin]

Where did Christ ever say "do nothing and thou shalt be saved for I have done all there needs to be done for salvation"??

You can't be taken seriously.