Contradiction of WORDS

[SeaBass]

Now that's rich.

Not only is "free" not really free, but a "gift" is not really a gift.

Such perverse altering of even language in the irrefutable texts
for the sake of one's contra-Biblical theology.

This hermeneutic can make the Scriptures say anything and everything.

Who said free is not free?

The issues is can free gifts come with conditions? yes, Naaman's came with the condition of dipping.
Does working to meet the conditions earn one a gift already offered for free? No, one cannot earn what has already been offered for free but one can meet the conditions to receive the free gift already offered.

 

[Elin]

The thief is not an example of NT salvation, Heb 9:16,17.

In what book of the OT was he saved?

You can't be taken seriously.

 

[SeaBass]

If you have any role in it, then something is of yourself.

You cannot be taken seriously.

If God had not made salvation available to man (and He did not have to) then then ALL men would be lost whether they did any works or not.

 

[SeaBass]

NOT OF WORKS LEST SEABASS SHOULD BOAST

"not of works" excludes works of merit and not obedient works as faith or good works of Eph 2:10.

Even obeying does not give one anything to boast about, Lk 17:10.

 

[Elin]

Contrare. . .the record shows it was first presented as an example of conditions attached to God's free gift of salvation.

Naaman is not an example of salvation, and cannot be applied to God's free gift of salvation.

No, I used Naaman to show an example of God's grace requiring a work to receive but Naaman doing that work in dipping did not earn him God's grace.

Ignoring context again, just as you do with the Scriptures.

Review the context of the dialog.

 

[posthuman]

"not of works" excludes works of merit and not obedient works as faith or good works of Eph 2:10.

Even obeying does not give one anything to boast about, Lk 17:10.

neither of these scriptures tells us what we must do to be saved,
but what we should do, having been saved.

 

[elf3]

I have never argued one must earn his salvation. But the bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift. As long as people will not understand this simple point they will never understand biblical salvation.

And yet you have not explained your blatant contradiction in your phrase "the Bible clearly teaches God has put the conditions of obedient works upon His free gift of salvation and obeying in no way earns the free gift." Actually you double contradict yourself.

 

[Elin]

But where does the bible say Jesus paying the price for sin means man has to do nothing to be saved? That idea is being ASSUMED.

What is being assumed is that Scripture must state this NT revelation precisely in the phraseology you require:

"Jesus paying the price for sin means man has to do nothing to be saved,"

no matter how many times it is stated using other phraseology.

Your methodology is perverse, and you cannot be taken seriously.

 

[SeaBass]

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Lk 3:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Mt 10:32,33 "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

Mk 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Mt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Lk 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.."

Just a few verse that you always leave out on your cherry-picking expeditions. Why do you ignore these verses?

 

[SeaBass]

All works associated with receiving salvation are works of merit.

You cannot be taken seriously.

Simply is not true, and you have shown nothing to back it up.

If it were true then God wants man to merit his salvation as seen by all the commands God has given to man.


Naaman's OBEDIENCE in dipping did not earn him his free gift of healing so obedience in obeying the gospel does not earn one everlasting life.


Jesus said to LABOUR for everlasting life that He GIVES. Is this a contradicting statement?

 

[SeaBass]

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Those that are in the group "Christian" are sealed. No individual outside this group is sealed unconditionally. So as long as one CONDITIONALLY, faithgully remains in this group he will be sealed. Fall from this sealed group = no longer sealed.

 

[Elin]

Lk 3:3 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Repentance is a gift (2Tim 2;25, Ac 11:18, 5:31), not something man can do on his own,
as is faith (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3).

No one repents whom God does not give the gift of repentance.
No one believes whom God does not give the gift of faith.

Until you understand the NT in the light of these truths, and stop setting the Scriptures against themselves,
you will never understand it correctly.

 

[SeaBass]

This "simple point" is nothing more than your corruption of language.

You cannot be taken seriously.

Where is it written that if I have a free gift to give I cannot put conditions upon receiving that free gift?

 

[SeaBass]

he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why make ye trial of God, that ye should put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in like manner as they.

Yes, by faith not by faith only

 

[SeaBass]

he helped them much that had believed through grace;
Acts 18

"Believed" not "believed only".

 

[SeaBass]

You can't be taken seriously.

Where did Christ ever say "do nothing and thou shalt be saved for I have done all there needs to be done for salvation"??

 

[Elin]

All works associated with receiving salvation are works of merit.

You cannot be taken seriously.

Simply is not true, and you have shown nothing to back it up.

Nothing more than language and the meaning of the words "free" and "gift. . .

not to mention not setting the Scriptures against themselves.

 

[SeaBass]

Grace:

Come unto Me, all you who labor & are heavy laden . . . and I will give you rest.

What if one does not CONDITIONALLY come unto Christ? Get rest anyway?

Do you earn that rest by the work of coming?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Where is it written that if I have a free gift to give I cannot put conditions upon receiving that free gift?

If you set conditions upon receiving it, then it aint free. Just like BOGO offers on tv--supposedly you get the 2nd item free, yet have to pay S&H for it. It's not free if you have to pay ANYTHING for it. Same thing applies to you putting conditions on the free gift you're giving away. If you say, ok this is free but you gotta do x y and z first to get it, then it isnt free.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Those that are in the group "Christian" are sealed. No individual outside this group is sealed unconditionally. So as long as one CONDITIONALLY, faithgully remains in this group he will be sealed. Fall from this sealed group = no longer sealed.

As has been explained to you before - the "group" is made up of individuals and those individuals are "each" sealed with the Holy Spirit being as the individuals are baptized by one Spirit into one body - the "church" the body of Christ.

For the body is not ONE member but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were the hearing where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members EVERY ONE OF THEM in the body, as it hath pleased him. . . . 1 Cor. 14-18