Contradiction of WORDS

[Billyd]

So one can live his whole life wicked and still be saved?

I am concerned.

Why are you so hung up on "We are saved by Grace through Faith" and as the result of that Salvation we will do good works?

I'll reword your comment, then address it. So one can live his entire wicked life and still be saved? Yes. In the eyes of God, every single person on this Earth lives a despicable life because of our sin (small or large) every hour of every day. There is absolutely no way that we can work off that sin. It is that Salvation that God provided us by the Blood of Christ that, (Gift of Grace, Salvation) through our Faith in Christ (total, unconditional belief), covers our wicked life. I hope that you don't see your life as not being wicked in the eyes of God.

If you have accepted that Gift of Grace that God has provided you, put that Salvation to work and take the Gospel to the lost world. Don't keep it bound up in the never ending cycle of the lost-saved-lost-saved... struggle.

 

[elf3]

You avoided the question:
So one who always does evil, unrighteousness and disobedient to God all their life can be saved?

Ant theology that puts one in a position where thy cannot answer such a simple question with a resounding "NO" should cause a red flag to go up. Or one's theology that causes one to answer this question with a "YES" needs to be rethought for it is 100% in opposition to bible teachings.

I'm so sorry my life got in the way of your question.

I never said anything remotely close to this. If you would actually read ALL of my posts you just might realize this.

 

[jdbear]

Even OT prophecy says He was punished for our sins...."Isa 53;5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities..."

SeaBass, you're looking at this verse the mainstream way, but the verse could easily mean,

He was wounded and bruised for our sins (because He came here to teach us to repent and have faith in God and He was tortured and killed by men because of it.)

In other words, "I came because they are sinners and they killed Me."

But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. Jn.15:25

This verse you quote from Ezekiel is talking about a fleshly father and son NOT about the Messiah. This verse is proof there is no such thing as original sin, that is passed from father to son.

The verses is saying you answer for your own sins not Adam's or anyone else. The father answers for his own sons and the son answers for his own sins but this does not mean Christ could not die to take that guilt of sin away from BOTH the father and son.

The only point in this passage is that nobody pays for anyone else's sin. There is no exclusion cited.

Just because Christ died to take the sin debt away does not automatically mean it is taken away from everyone, for only those that obey Christ have that sin debt taken away.

Your friend that claims to be Jewish is totally wrong.

Sin is removed through repentance and faith in God.

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Pe.1:21

 

[dcontroversal]

No that's not what I asked. I asked you to explain Eph 2:9

He cannot answer it without rejecting his own heretical view.....! He will be in the group that brags about his works and why because of his works he should be allowed to enter....albeit too late to actually trust the work of Christ for sure......!

 

[jdbear]

Thou dost betray thy religious persuasion.

The Jew doesn't understand the OT sacrificial system, nor Is 53:5 noor believe 2Pe 2:24.

Practicing Jews may not believe Jesus is Messiah, but they understand their own sacrificial system far better than Christians do. In fact Elin, the God described in the OT can and has forgiven sin without any sacrifice at all.
But he*was*wounded for our transgressions,*he wasbruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peacewas*upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

We are healed because God punished Jesus for what we did, or because Jesus taught sinners about God and they killed Him?

They both fit the text. Which one?

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jesus had our sins attached to Him on the cross, or Jesus hung on a cross with the sinful beating marking His body?

Which?

 

[Atwood]

I am concerned.

Why are you so hung up on "We are saved by Grace through Faith" and as the result of that Salvation we will do good works?

I'll reword your comment, then address it. So one can live his entire wicked life and still be saved? Yes. In the eyes of God, every single person on this Earth lives a despicable life because of our sin (small or large) every hour of every day. There is absolutely no way that we can work off that sin. It is that Salvation that God provided us by the Blood of Christ that, (Gift of Grace, Salvation) through our Faith in Christ (total, unconditional belief), covers our wicked life. I hope that you don't see your life as not being wicked in the eyes of God.

If you have accepted that Gift of Grace that God has provided you, put that Salvation to work and take the Gospel to the lost world. Don't keep it bound up in the never ending cycle of the lost-saved-lost-saved... struggle.

Rom 10
3 For being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone that believeth.

It appears that the basic problem with those who deny salvation by grace and who define salvation as something one can lose, is that they are insisting on a pretended self-righteousness that they do not have, like the Pharisee in the parable of the Publican. I suspect that SB and others actually imagine that they are good boys doing good daily and not sinning significantly; they don't admit the depth of their depravity and how their vile behavior demands that they either be saved by grace or be condemned for their works.

And to expand their delusion, they throw in the idol of water, with the idea that the human work of water-immersion is a savior. Not giving heed to the multitude of passages that require of man only faith, with no mention of water.

Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

[no water]

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

[no water]


John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.

NO WATER!

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.

[no water]

Gal 3:22ff

But the scripture shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

[No Water]

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm so sorry my life got in the way of your question.

I never said anything remotely close to this. If you would actually read ALL of my posts you just might realize this.

He cant get past his own works to actually see what anyone states...much less the bible!

 

[jdbear]

Thou does betray thy religious persuasion.

Just considering the ways of God. I once considered being automatically guilt for what Adam did and discovered it wasn't true.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's NOT called the gospel of UNCONDITIONAL grace.

Hey sea perch this just shows your total ignorance of the word GRACE-----> UNMERITED FAVOR.....what exactly does UNMERITED mean........? MAYBE you should do a complete study on the word GRACE..........!

 

[elf3]

He cant get past his own works to actually see what anyone states...much less the bible!

Yeah that's pretty obvious. He has yet to explain Eph 2:8,9 so...pretty much lost.

He along with a couple others have been taking things we say so far out of context it's amazing they can see the floor.

 

[dcontroversal]

James 2 "JUSTIFIED BY WORKS". Rom 6 "OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS"

Eph 2:9 "not of works" refers to works of merit not obedient works that justifies/leads to being made righteous.

Works are works and your twist here of words sets forth the ignorance of your approach to doctrine dude.....and again you totally miss the mark on the James text as the whole context of JAMES is SHOW ME YOUR FAITH...PAUL clearly teaches that A MAN WILL NOT BE JUSTIFIED BEFORE GOD BY WORKS OF righteousness SO keep on twisting and wresting the word to your own demise.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes.

Luke 23:43

43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

No doubt and I agree.....He fails to understand the concept of unmerited favor (grace) based upon MERCY and the CHILDLIKE faith that is required...FAITH being a spiritual GIFT which he also does not understand as well as the word FREE which he cannot comprehend......Many will come before Jesus claiming their works as their right to enter the kingdom and Jesus will say... I never knew you!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah that's pretty obvious. He has yet to explain Eph 2:8,9 so...pretty much lost.

He along with a couple others have been taking things we say so far out of context it's amazing they can see the floor.

Well that is what the devil does...he twists things around, denies the very words of God, adds to the word and makes it a gospel of a different kind.......anyone who adds works to faith for salvation is lost according to the book of Galatians, Titus, Ephesians, Romans, John etc.........

 

[dcontroversal]

So you are saying the unrighteous, disobedient, worker of iniquity are saved, yet the bible says they are lost.

No what she is saying is simple and correct...and unrighteous murdering thief who acknowledge the Lordship of Jesus by faith was saved and went with the LORD to paradise.....just because you erroneously believe in works does not alleviate the truth of what she posted!

 

[dcontroversal]

Again, one can blatantly disobey God's commands and be saved?
One can work evil works and be saved?
One can work unrighteousness and be of God (1 Jn 3:10)?

Again your inability to acknowledge simple truth in favor of heresy astounds me.....dude one who is wicked can trust JESUS and be saved....just like the thief as he was being put to death for murder and thievery.....yet ACKNOWLEDGED the LORDSHIP of JESUS and was ACKNOWLEDGED by JESUS.....you will never understand as long as you remain lost in your COC doctrine of works and water.....!

 

[TaylorTG]

Hey, look! Elin and DControversal "liked" post #553.


When someone "likes" your post, that means they agree with you.

Faith would be the result of salvation, and good works proceed from faith.

Stupid logic, eh?

I can eat as many desserts as I want and steal as many dollars as I wish from my brother's wallet!! My parents totally won't punish me!

They agree that good works come from Faith.
This means that they themselves believe that good works are beneficial to salvation, because they agree that faith is the source of good works.


Yet they contradict themselves by continuing to argue against what they agree with!

pfft

 

[Elin]

Thou does betray thy religious persuasion.

Just considering the ways of God. I once considered being automatically guilt for what Adam did and discovered it wasn't true.

When you start believing the word of God, you will be getting somewhere.

Ro 5:18:

"the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men."

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey, look! Elin and DControversal "liked" post #553.


When someone "likes" your post, that means they agree with you.



They agree that good works come from Faith.
This means that they themselves believe that good works are beneficial to salvation, because they agree that faith is the source of good works.


Yet they contradict themselves by continuing to argue against what they agree with!

pfft

Well don't misunderstand dude.....Faith alone saves and brings salvation.......WE HAVE NEVER SAID THAT A TRUE CHILD OF GOD WILL NOT HAVE BIBLICAL WORKS AND OR FRUIT.....WE CONTEND THAT THE WORKS DO NOT SAVE, BUT ARE EVIDENCE OF GENUINE FAITH.... IN THE GRACE YOU ARE HAVING BEEN SAVED OUT OF FAITH, AND THAT NOT OF YOURSELVES.....

So now that you added to your posts and attributed things that we did not say you are found a what exactly?

 

[Elin]

You are absolutely correct.
But the topic is salvation, and by what means we are saved.
Are good works the cause of salvation, or the result of salvation?
The NT every where teaches they are the result or salvation, not its cause.

The topic is not the nature of faith.

Faith would be the result of salvation, and good works proceed from faith.

No, faith is the means of salvation--through grace by faith (Eph 2:8-9)--while
works are the result of salvation.

It's: gift of faith--->salvation--->works of faith.

 

[Elin]

Hey, look! Elin and DControversal "liked" post #553.

When someone "likes" your post, that means they agree with you.

They agree that good works come from Faith.
This means that they themselves believe that good works are beneficial to salvation, because they agree that faith is the source of good works.

Yes, good works come from salvation which comes from faith.

You've almost got it Biblically correct.

Gift of faith--->salvation--->good works of faith.