Contradiction of WORDS

elf3 · Oct 30, 2014

That's funny to a point of so sad. You obviously have no idea of what we mean by "faith alone".

It's our faith that saves us but our faith in God will produce good works. All the good work you do will never save you. "If I do good work God will bless me and save me"....biggest lie ever. Maybe it's you that aren't really a Christian. Trying to save yourself...good luck with that. Just sayin.

posthuman · Oct 30, 2014

newbirth said:

really? you think that Christ is talking about His H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism by John in Mark 10??

didja not notice that it's 7 chapters AFTER He went to John? the same thing is related in Matthew chapter 20 - and in that book it's 17 chapters after his baptism by John!!

can you not see that He is talking about going up to Jerusalem to die on the cross for you? look at Mark 10:32-34, just a few verses before this conversation -- there is Christ predicting His death to them. it is exactly His death on the cross that He refers to here as His "baptism" and His "cup."

don't you think these apostles were also baptized by John? why then does Christ say they will be baptized with this baptism if it had already occurred?

Christ saved you and me at Golgatha, not the Jordan river. He saved us by shedding His blood for the atonement of our sin. it was on that cross that He was baptized with this baptism, and drank of this cup. when He prayed in Gethsemane that if it be the Father's will that the cup pass from Him, He was certainly not praying about being dunked in the Jordan.

if you really believe Mark 10 & Matthew 20 are referring back to John's H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism i'd sure love to hear your explanation.
so come on now, let's hear it. don't just ignore this and accuse me of rejecting God's commands again. please, explain yourself. .. ?

posthuman · Oct 30, 2014

i don't know if i hope that my previous post is out of misunderstanding newbirth or not.

because if i'm misunderstanding NB, then what he's really saying is that "we're not talking about Christ's redeeming sacrifice, we're talking about H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism"

and brother, Christ's redeeming sacrifice is what we ought to be talking about. in-a-nutshell.

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

elf3 said:

No doubt, and amazing how those who teach a gospel of a different kind and are lost according to their own dogma and testimony will make a statement about believers not being Christian....Well, we see who makes the proverbial gates of heaven and I can tell you according to Galatians that those who add works to faith for salvation have believed into gospel of a different kind with NO POWER to save...the same lost men will argue their right to enter the kingdom based upon their own works and Jesus will tell them clearly that he never knew them.....!

newbirth · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

you are implying that faith in Jesus is faith without works....it is not works of the law but work of faith...if you believe in Christ you must believe in repentance and remission of sins...and therein is works of faith...

posthuman · Oct 30, 2014

newbirth said:

talk to Paul.

i'm just quoting scripture, bro.

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

Well, you have to remember that those who trust into water and works are blind and unable to see clearly....yea, see anything in all actuality......You know...many will come to Jesus bragging and boasting about the works they have done in his name, and he does not say that they did not do the works, but rather that he never knew them which goes to the root of salvation....the ones believing into works and water have trusted into a gospel of a different kind, has no power to save and will lead them straight to hell as the bible teaches that faith is what saves...Not works or baptism and for those who like to use James as their proof fail to see two words in the text which are....SHOW ME!

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

He would rather talk to a pope or Alexander Campbell or maybe a J.W. as they all believe in works for salvation and or another Jesus which the bible does not teach.......

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

They all like to do that....take a few scriptures out of context...especially James and then push their heretical dogma and self works which they ignorantly believe will gain them entrance to heaven....tragic at best...going to be a lot of people who attempt to gain heaven by their works and Jesus will say that he never knew them which goes to the root of their supposed salvation.......

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

eternally-gratefull said:

No doubt....tragic and sad as he trusts into his work over the work of Jesus and in so doing states clearly that the completed work of Jesus was not sufficient.....the end result of that dogma is the mists of darkness and blackness of darkness for ever.....Gospel of a different kind with no power to save for sure.......!

newbirth · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

we were discussing Christ baptism by John....you brought up this....

I told you it was out of context in regard to Christ being baptised by John...which is not what the disciples were talking about ...they were talking about being on the left and right off Jesus in his glory...
Now you have strayed way of from the original discussion...in which I asked if you think Christ was not baptised by John? I am saying yes he was and it was necessary...hence the reason I quoted...[SUP]15[/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

so it seems somewhere we ended up debating two different things...

posthuman · Oct 30, 2014

not to boast, but to illustrate --

i fed a homeless cat this morning.
i didn't think "if i don't obey the command to take up the cause of the fatherless and the widow, the Lord may remove the seal He put on my heart and hold my sin against me even to damnation"
i thought "God feeds me and gives me water to drink when i have no way to care for myself, even though i don't deserve it. i should show the same love to all His creatures."

see how righteousness was worked out of love, rather than by a law of works? that by faith instead of fear, i was led to good works?

btw yes, it is biblical to say that taking care of animals is righteous:

The righteous care for the needs of their animals, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.
(Proverbs 12:10)

newbirth · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

and I agree...[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

we don't void the law because of faith...we establish the law.....

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

not to boast, but to illustrate --

i fed a homeless cat this morning.
i didn't think "if i don't obey the command to take up the cause of the fatherless and the widow, the Lord may remove the seal He put on my heart and hold my sin against me even to damnation"
i thought "God feeds me and gives me water to drink when i have no way to care for myself, even though i don't deserve it. i should show the same love to all His creatures."

see how righteousness was worked out of love, rather than by a law of works? that by faith instead of fear, i was led to good works?

btw yes, it is biblical to say that taking care of animals is righteous:

The righteous care for the needs of their animals, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.
(Proverbs 12:10)

Amen and so true for sure........

posthuman · Oct 30, 2014

newbirth said:

thanks, and that makes loads better sense, but i don't know why you're still talking about whether or not we should be H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptized.
no one to my knowledge has ever disputed that in any of these threads. everyone involved here has been baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O. everyone agrees that we should be baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.

where we're tripping is whether it's our obedience that saves us or Christ's intercession for our disobedience.

i wish we were all present in person instead of online. i'd get baptized again right here and now just to please you, so we could in fact move on to glorifying Jesus for the baptism He undertook - the one baptism that actually works salvation, that He spoke of as His baptism, that i referred to, the one at Calvary.

newbirth · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

the law that require faith.... is it different from the law that require works? ....the law is the same it is the requirements that are different...the law that required works was under a covenant by the blood of bulls and sheep......the law that requires faith is under the blood of Christ....the works spoken of is not good or bad but the sacrifice offered for sins....and the faith spoken of is the confidence that Christ has remitted our sins....and if we are confident of this we ought not to continue in sin but uphold the requirements of the law....
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

newbirth · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

thanks, and that makes loads better sense, but i don't know why you're still talking about whether or not we should be H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptized.
no one to my knowledge has ever disputed that in any of these threads. everyone involved here has been baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O. everyone agrees that we should be baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.

where we're tripping is whether it's our obedience that saves us or Christ's intercession for our disobedience.

i wish we were all present in person instead of online. i'd get baptized again right here and now just to please you, so we could in fact move on to glorifying Jesus for the baptism He undertook - the one baptism that actually works salvation, that He spoke of as His baptism, that i referred to, the one at Calvary.

I would not be pleased if you got baptised to please me....I believe we are baptised into Christ for the remission of sins.....according to the pronise Acts 2:38-39

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

posthuman said:

thanks, and that makes loads better sense, but i don't know why you're still talking about whether or not we should be H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptized.
no one to my knowledge has ever disputed that in any of these threads. everyone involved here has been baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O. everyone agrees that we should be baptized in H[SUB]2[/SUB]O.

where we're tripping is whether it's our obedience that saves us or Christ's intercession for our disobedience.

i wish we were all present in person instead of online. i'd get baptized again right here and now just to please you, so we could in fact move on to glorifying Jesus for the baptism He undertook - the one baptism that actually works salvation, that He spoke of as His baptism, that i referred to, the one at Calvary.

No doubt.....and I agree........!

dcontroversal · Oct 30, 2014

SeaBass said:

Here we see Mr. Twisty twisting words so as to keep his Campbellite doctrine of works for salvation......!

eternally-gratefull · Oct 30, 2014

newbirth said:

this makes no sense.

There is no such thing as faith that does not produce works. It is impossible. You do not trust someone, then ignore everything they say.

Contradiction of WORDS

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