Contradiction of WORDS
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they were addressed to all who believe...all nations....
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP](Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The one to the Galatians seems more personal but ve 4 seems to include me...
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Originally Posted by newbirth
so where do you think those epistles came from?....they wrote letters and circulated them to all the churches....it is those letters that make up the NT....
4 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Romans 3
2 Peter 3:15-17King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
.
always read the intro and you will see who the letter is addressed to....
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
[SUP]2 [/SUP](Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
The one to the Galatians seems more personal but ve 4 seems to include me...
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
so where do you think those epistles came from?....they wrote letters and circulated them to all the churches....it is those letters that make up the NT....
4 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Romans 3
2 Peter 3:15-17King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
always read the intro and you will see who the letter is addressed to....
are you saying the gentiles should not listen to Peter?...
Acts 15:7-9King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts 15:7-9King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Try obeying this command:
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
So you think the Lord made a mistake by leaving obedience out of what a man needs to do before saved to be saved when the Lord wrote Ephesians 2?
Note that before a man is saved, he is disobedient, not obedient, a man is a son of disobedience:
2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
So you think the Lord made a mistake by leaving obedience out of what a man needs to do before saved to be saved when the Lord wrote Ephesians 2?
Note that before a man is saved, he is disobedient, not obedient, a man is a son of disobedience:
2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:— 4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: 8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
Here is the order:
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
1) a sinner,
2) faith in the Savior,
3) salvation,
4) good works.
If you disagree with that, you disagree with the Lord.
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
1) a sinner,
2) faith in the Savior,
3) salvation,
4) good works.
If you disagree with that, you disagree with the Lord.
now you are the Lord? your faith is a dead faith...what do you believe Christ said?...do you believe he said this???...
Matthew 28:19-20King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
no you don't... If you did we wouldn't be having this debate...so in reality you don't believe Christ....
Matthew 28:19-20King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
no you don't... If you did we wouldn't be having this debate...so in reality you don't believe Christ....
ANY works that ANY men perform by the Spirit of Christ in them, I give great thanks for! Not just because such works Glorify the Lord and come from their Faith, but because such works contribute to the building of God that He is building THROUGH them, the Everlasting Temple of God, which is WHO we are We through whom the Lord is building Gold, Silver precious Gems, we KNOW that these works we've done "didn't get us salvation". EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. Let's move on...
I also give great thanks for these everlasting works done by Faithful Saints down through time, because each and every one of us gets to "commune/participate/share/be one in, etc" those Great Works of God done by their Faith! We will each bathe and be in the everlasting bliss of righteousness manifested in the flesh of men of God moved by the Spirit. Such are as Gems and Gold and is our everlasting Joy. It is why Righteous Works are INTENDED to be manifest in the flesh of Faithful men.
Only stunted spirits get hung up at the starting gate on this topic. It is ridiculous to argue about.
GO OUT AND MAKE DISCIPLES! THEN after that worry about "WHY" you did it lol!
(Darby, I'm liking him today heh)
(Jud 1:20)
But *ye*, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
(1Co 3:11)
For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(1Co 3:12)
Now if any one build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw,
(1Co 3:13)
the work of each shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it , because it is revealed in fire; and the fire shall try the work of each what it is.
(1Co 3:14)
If the work of any one which he has built upon the foundation shall abide, he shall receive a reward.
HOW AWESOME I want one!
(Eph 2:20)
being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone,
(Eph 2:21)
in whom all the building fitted together increases to a holy temple in the Lord;
(Eph 2:22)
in whom *ye* also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.
(Rev 21:1)
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more.
(Rev 21:2)
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(Rev 21:3)
And I heard a loud voice out of the heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall tabernacle with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, their God.
(Rev 21:4)
And he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall not exist any more, nor grief, nor cry, nor distress shall exist any more, for the former things have passed away.
(Rev 21:5)
And he that sat on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he says to me , Write, for these words are true and faithful.
We through whom the Lord is building Gold, Silver precious Gems, we KNOW that these works we've done "didn't get us salvation". EVERYONE KNOWS THAT. Let's move on...I also give great thanks for these everlasting works done by Faithful Saints down through time, because each and every one of us gets to "commune/participate/share/be one in, etc" those Great Works of God done by their Faith! We will each bathe and be in the everlasting bliss of righteousness manifested in the flesh of men of God moved by the Spirit. Such are as Gems and Gold and is our everlasting Joy. It is why Righteous Works are INTENDED to be manifest in the flesh of Faithful men.
Only stunted spirits get hung up at the starting gate on this topic. It is ridiculous to argue about.
GO OUT AND MAKE DISCIPLES! THEN after that worry about "WHY" you did it lol!
(Darby, I'm liking him today heh)
(Jud 1:20)
But *ye*, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
(1Co 3:11)
For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
(1Co 3:12)
Now if any one build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw,
(1Co 3:13)
the work of each shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it , because it is revealed in fire; and the fire shall try the work of each what it is.
(1Co 3:14)
If the work of any one which he has built upon the foundation shall abide, he shall receive a reward.
HOW AWESOME
I want one!(Eph 2:20)
being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone,
(Eph 2:21)
in whom all the building fitted together increases to a holy temple in the Lord;
(Eph 2:22)
in whom *ye* also are built together for a habitation of God in the Spirit.
(Rev 21:1)
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more.
(Rev 21:2)
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(Rev 21:3)
And I heard a loud voice out of the heaven, saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall tabernacle with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, their God.
(Rev 21:4)
And he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall not exist any more, nor grief, nor cry, nor distress shall exist any more, for the former things have passed away.
(Rev 21:5)
And he that sat on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he says to me , Write, for these words are true and faithful.
NewB, I didn't write the Bible. It is the Lord who tells us the order:
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
1) unsaved sinner, (There is none righteous; all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags)
2) faith in the Savior,
3) salvation,
4) good works.
If you disagree with that, you disagree with the Lord.
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them."
1) unsaved sinner, (There is none righteous; all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags)
2) faith in the Savior,
3) salvation,
4) good works.
If you disagree with that, you disagree with the Lord.
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it is not my fault that you don't understand what it means to be saved by grace through faith...the scripture makes it very clear...
we are saved by grace.........when and how...did he make us alive together with Christ?
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory
this is how we are made alive together with Christ....all three scripture saying the same thing...Eph.Col and RomColossians 2:11-13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Romans 6:3-5King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory
this is how we are made alive together with Christ....all three scripture saying the same thing...Eph.Col and RomColossians 2:11-13King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Romans 6:3-5King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
