Contradiction of WORDS

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psychomom

Guest
#641
#641
Atwood said:
Christians indeed stumble in many ways, but Christians can walk by the Spirit and actually love: The fruit of the Spirit is love. The Christian has 2 modes of operation: he can operate according to the flesh or according to the Spirit. Everything we do is not tainted. We can be rooted & grounded in love & filled to al the fullness of God. It may well be that many things we think are done by God's Spirit are in fact done according to the flesh and look good. But Christians are enabled actually to love neighbor as self, and when we do that all of the commandments are fulfilled. Christians are able to say: "I have been crucified with Christ and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me." We are also able to be in a carnal state: "I am carnal, sold under sin" (Rom 7).
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Christians at times do walk by the Spirit and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
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yes, i see what you're saying.

sometimes God just pulls it off in spite of ourselves. :)
 
J

jdbear

Banned
#642
May 14, 2014
611
4
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#642
psychomom said:
well, okay...trying to stay on the topic (i think)

i was thinking of this verse:

Rom 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
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Perfect! God chooses those who choose to repent.
 
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Elin

Banned
#643
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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#643
elf3 said:
Sorry I just noticed I keep saying saved when I mean justified. No wonder
I am confusing people. Please forgive me everyone.

Thank you NB for helping me notice this.
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No confusion.

Justification is salvation.

One is justified by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, where God declares one "not guilty," rightwise with him,
thus saving one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on his guilt at the final judgment.
 
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elf3

Guest
#644
#644
jdbear said:
That's contrary to what I've believed. I was taught that my sins were transferred on Jesus. Do you believe they werent?
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Jesus died for our sins so that we may have eternal life thru Him but His death did not make us sinless. We are still sinners.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#645
Feb 21, 2014
70,924
9,673
113
#645
jdbear said:
That's contrary to what I've believed. I was taught that my sins were transferred on Jesus. Do you believe they werent?
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I believe Jesus died for our sins, yes, definitely. BUT he is not responsible for our actions today. He doesnt make us go rob a store, or give a homeless person some money. We choose to do these things on our own. He does not whisper in our ear, and tell us to do these things.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#646
#646
jdbear said:
Perfect! God chooses those who choose to repent.
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i do see that in Scripture.

but i mean no disrespect toward whose who see it differently,
because there are also verses commanding us to come...to seek...

it's a sort of tension in the Bible i haven't resolved.
but in general, i'm very monergistic.
 
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elf3

Guest
#647
#647
jdbear said:
Perfect! God chooses those who choose to repent.
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Yes! Why do we feel God cannot have a chosen in the NT but we believe Israel was God's chosen in the OT? Is God still not Sovereign?
 
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elf3

Guest
#648
#648
jdbear said:
Perfect! God chooses those who choose to repent.
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Not only the Sovereignty of God but what about His omniscience? God knows all things..then now and to come all at the same time. So did we come to Him as a surprise or were we chosen by Him?
 
J

jdbear

Banned
#649
May 14, 2014
611
4
0
#649
elf3 said:
Jesus died for our sins so that we may have eternal life thru Him but His death did not make us sinless. We are still sinners.
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Died for our sins how? In the sense of being punished by His Father for what we did, or...died because He came to teach us about God in obedience to His Father and was simply murdered? As an example:


But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is theheir; come, let us*kill*him, and the inheritance shall be ours. Mk.12:7
 
J

jdbear

Banned
#650
May 14, 2014
611
4
0
#650
blue_ladybug said:
I believe Jesus died for our sins, yes, definitely. BUT he is not responsible for our actions today. He doesnt make us go rob a store, or give a homeless person some money. We choose to do these things on our own. He does not whisper in our ear, and tell us to do these things.
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Sis, I didn't mean our sins today. I meant ever...even when He was on the cross? Look at any scripture concerning Jesus sacrifice. Do they mean Jesus came here in sacrifice to "pay for" our wrongdoing, or do they mean Jesus came here in sacrifice to teach us about God and was just killed?
 
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elf3

Guest
#651
#651
jdbear said:
Died for our sins how? In the sense of being punished by His Father for what we did, or...died because He came to teach us about God in obedience to His Father and was simply murdered? As an example:


But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is theheir; come, let us*kill*him, and the inheritance shall be ours. Mk.12:7
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Jesus died as the propitiation (sacrifice) for our sins. In the OT the Jews were required to make sacrifices to God. Jesus is that one and final sacrifice God required of man. Basically God saw how bad man had gotten. And by His Grace and Mercy sacrificed Himself in the form of Jesus (being fully God and fully man) so that we might be able to attain eternal life with Him. Jesus died for us so that we might know Him. That's where the faith given us by God comes into play.
 
J

jdbear

Banned
#652
May 14, 2014
611
4
0
#652
psychomom said:
i do see that in Scripture.

but i mean no disrespect toward whose who see it differently,
because there are also verses commanding us to come...to seek...

it's a sort of tension in the Bible i haven't resolved.
but in general, i'm very monergistic.
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Sorry for my illiteracy. I don't know what modernistic is. Honestly sis I'm asking these questions because a Jewish friend was showing me stuff from the OT on why he doesn't believe Jesus is Messiah. I do believe Jesus is the Lord and that He died for our sins, but, because of certain things which were pointed out to me that are difficult to explain away, (such as God's revulsion of human sacrifice....that's just one) I'm looking at the scriptures in a way that shows how Jesus could die for God without violating
His word.
 
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jdbear

Banned
#653
May 14, 2014
611
4
0
#653
elf3 said:
Not only the Sovereignty of God but what about His omniscience? God knows all things..then now and to come all at the same time. So did we come to Him as a surprise or were we chosen by Him?
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I don't believe if we bought God a gift we should bother wrapping it...lol.
 
J

jdbear

Banned
#654
May 14, 2014
611
4
0
#654
elf3 said:
Yes! Why do we feel God cannot have a chosen in the NT but we believe Israel was God's chosen in the OT? Is God still not Sovereign?
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Yes He is Sovereign. I believe He ordained that people of faith would be saved.
 
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jdbear

Banned
#655
May 14, 2014
611
4
0
#655
elf3 said:
Jesus died as the propitiation (sacrifice) for our sins. In the OT the Jews were required to make sacrifices to God. Jesus is that one and final sacrifice God required of man. Basically God saw how bad man had gotten. And by His Grace and Mercy sacrificed Himself in the form of Jesus (being fully God and fully man) so that we might be able to attain eternal life with Him. Jesus died for us so that we might know Him. That's where the faith given us by God comes into play.
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I've always been taught that God punished Jesus for our sins. Is this what you believe?
 
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psychomom

Guest
#656
#656
jdbear said:
Sorry for my illiteracy. I don't know what modernistic is. Honestly sis I'm asking these questions because a Jewish friend was showing me stuff from the OT on why he doesn't believe Jesus is Messiah. I do believe Jesus is the Lord and that He died for our sins, but, because of certain things which were pointed out to me that are difficult to explain away, (such as God's revulsion of human sacrifice....that's just one) I'm looking at the scriptures in a way that shows how Jesus could die for God without violating
His word.
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sorry about that.

monergism: God alone initiates and completes the work of salvation.

please be careful about theology (God words) coming from someone who's not saved.
better to get it from the Bible.

maybe Elin could post a link to her excellent study of Leviticus?
because if i speak words you haven't heard yet,
i make up for it in my technological illiteracy. :)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#657
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#657
Elin said:
You gots ta been ta da Kingdom Hall rabbit hole 'n meet Elduh Floyd ta know da langwitch.
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I didn't know you could speak in some unknown language HAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAH
 
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elf3

Guest
#658
#658
jdbear said:
I've always been taught that God punished Jesus for our sins. Is this what you believe?
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Oh no not at all. As said in the gosples Jesus says no one takes my life i give it up freely (very broken down lol) Jesus wasn't punished He gave Himself willingly.
 
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elf3

Guest
#659
#659
jdbear said:
I've always been taught that God punished Jesus for our sins. Is this what you believe?
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JESUS submitted Himself to the will of God the Father.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#660
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#660
Elin said:
Absolutely!

God's unmerited favor has been revealed to the world, not just to the Jews.
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For God so loved the cosmos (whole order of things) for sure HAHAHAHHA Jews and Gentiles and has made the two one...in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile for sure!
 
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