Contradiction of WORDS

[dcontroversal]

no doing here either....
James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. you are describing faith without works.....to be saved

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

No doubt.....and I agree lost-->hear the word-->believe the word-->saved, justified, sanctified and then works...

You are one of the following four....

1. BLIND and cannot read nor understand words
2. Flat out in denial of the truth
3. Wilfully lying about what is being said
4. Deceived by the devil and without truth

You make assertions without merit so you pick from the list above as you fit one of the four categories.

 

[dcontroversal]

Since you had a completely hollow argument on the other forum about Romans 5:1,2 let's see what it would be here.

No doubt...same broken record that will be cast into the fire!

 

[elf3]

No doubt...same broken record that will be cast into the fire!

The repeated problem is that we say faith alone and they state back "so you deny baptism or good works". Well we have NEVER once said that. We have not even eluded to "don't get baptized" or "don't do good works". They have been ignoring what we say then add something we didn't say. Its only by God's grace that, at least you and I, have kept it too "sons of thunder" and not let the "lightning, hail and high winds" out but a few times.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The repeated problem is that we say faith alone and they state back "so you deny baptism or good works". Well we have NEVER once said that. We have not even eluded to "don't get baptized" or "don't do good works". They have been ignoring what we say then add something we didn't say. Its only by God's grace that, at least you and I, have kept it too "sons of thunder" and not let the "lightning, hail and high winds" out but a few times.

the problem is they do not see the point as of which one recieves eternal life.

To them it is an ongoing trek to gain that eternal life which can never be secure. And that is why they do not see it.

to us, there is a point in which we recieve eternal life, the seal of the spirit as our guarantee, the promise of being joint heirs, the Abba father we do not need to fear. This knowledge and hope brings us to the point we not only want to do work, we can't do enough.

but since they can't see this, their automatic go to is we do not praise works, or do them.

 

[tribesman]

''A'' Campbellite? I think there are many more on this site that may be unaware of their own identity...or are 'closet' Campbellites.

I tend to agree. Hopefully they come home, after coming out.

 

[elf3]

the problem is they do not see the point as of which one recieves eternal life.

To them it is an ongoing trek to gain that eternal life which can never be secure. And that is why they do not see it.

to us, there is a point in which we recieve eternal life, the seal of the spirit as our guarantee, the promise of being joint heirs, the Abba father we do not need to fear. This knowledge and hope brings us to the point we not only want to do work, we can't do enough.

but since they can't see this, their automatic go to is we do not praise works, or do them.

Amen! For we can know the peace of God!

 

[elf3]

I tend to agree. Hopefully they come home, after coming out.

It's hard for them to know God for they are so confused on the gift of Grace given us by God.

Confusion on grace confuses everything else.

 

[ChristIsGod]

The repeated problem is that we say faith alone and they state back "so you deny baptism or good works". Well we have NEVER once said that. We have not even eluded to "don't get baptized" or "don't do good works".

Glad to hear this but sure do hate when it has to come to sentences that contain "us" & "them".
I think we're all Christians, but it's just how one views the many verses on words, such as "works" or "baptism" or "obey/obedience" & "grace" and "love" ....

And going on from there to Why do we start threads that we know will stir-things-up when these same debates have gone on from day one - according to those 'Apologists' that wrote their gospel & epistles for 'doctrinal correction' reasons in the first place & the first Church.
The Apostles were 'constantly' fighting heresies ... but this thread topic has not been started to save "them" that you both are speaking about ... because they are saved people that you both are calling "them". And I have no doubt that your "us" crowd are saved as well. But how many threads are there now in the archives on the topic of baptism??
I thought of Titus 3:10 last night and even if there were 'unsaved heretics' among us - we are told to only give them loads of Scripture TWICE and then back away and to not go on forever even with 'those'.

BTW ~ What's a Campbellite? I googled it but all I come up with is that SOUP company.


I reckon the easiest way to understand where each other is coming from & to make an attempt at not splitting the Body of Christ to our own hurt, is to just type those words in the first sentence of this reply into this Bible search ... though it's NIV & some of us don't care for the NIV - but it sure is a great way [the only way] to 'go figure' what we all believe and decide if it's worth trying to pit NT Scriptures against NT Scriptures and destroy any chances of being guilty of causing division where there shouldn't have been -- if we'd just see the other guy's view and let him have that view before GOD...
Study the Bible Online - Search and Find Verses

.... unless it's truly a [damnable] heresy that will send 'them' or 'us' to Hell but if it's just a non-salvational doctrine that we're not seeing eye-to-eye on - we're still to not belabor it, Scripturally but to just post our view twice or so and just PRAY for 'them' and ourselves, that neither of us be deceived nor wrong in our treatment of others in the End.
Choosing our battles on that ground will keep us and those we talk to, Biblical & on safer ground.


His Love to all - a love that none of us are worthy of.

Thanks!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Glad to hear this but sure do hate when it has to come to sentences that contain "us" & "them".
I think we're all Christians, but it's just how one views the many verses on words, such as "works" or "baptism" or "obey/obedience" & "grace" and "love" ....

And going on from there to Why do we start threads that we know will stir-things-up when these same debates have gone on from day one - according to those 'Apologists' that wrote their gospel & epistles for 'doctrinal correction' reasons in the first place & the first Church.
The Apostles were 'constantly' fighting heresies ... but this thread topic has not been started to save "them" that you both are speaking about ... because they are saved people that you both are calling "them". And I have no doubt that your "us" crowd are saved as well. But how many threads are there now in the archives on the topic of baptism??
I thought of Titus 3:10 last night and even if there were 'unsaved heretics' among us - we are told to only give them loads of Scripture TWICE and then back away and to not go on forever even with 'those'.

BTW ~ What's a Campbellite? I googled it but all I come up with is that SOUP company.


I reckon the easiest way to understand where each other is coming from & to make an attempt at not splitting the Body of Christ to our own hurt, is to just type those words in the first sentence of this reply into this Bible search ... though it's NIV & some of us don't care for the NIV - but it sure is a great way [the only way] to 'go figure' what we all believe and decide if it's worth trying to pit NT Scriptures against NT Scriptures and destroy any chances of being guilty of causing division where there shouldn't have been -- if we'd just see the other guy's view and let him have that view before GOD...
Study the Bible Online - Search and Find Verses

.... unless it's truly a [damnable] heresy that will send 'them' or 'us' to Hell but if it's just a non-salvational doctrine that we're not seeing eye-to-eye on - we're still to not belabor it, Scripturally but to just post our view twice or so and just PRAY for 'them' and ourselves, that neither of us be deceived nor wrong in our treatment of others in the End.
Choosing our battles on that ground will keep us and those we talk to, Biblical & on safer ground.


His Love to all - a love that none of us are worthy of.

Thanks!

here is the problem.

we teach different gospels.

Paul makes it clear. there is only one gospel. any other gospel is not another, but a false gospel. and should be anathema'd.

so we may all be christian (per say) does not mean we are all headed to heaven, that is not the case.

 

[dcontroversal]

The repeated problem is that we say faith alone and they state back "so you deny baptism or good works". Well we have NEVER once said that. We have not even eluded to "don't get baptized" or "don't do good works". They have been ignoring what we say then add something we didn't say. Its only by God's grace that, at least you and I, have kept it too "sons of thunder" and not let the "lightning, hail and high winds" out but a few times.

No doubt and I agree....we have not once said to not be immersed and or to do the work that follows biblical salvation. Both listed are results of biblical salvation of the which they cannot see nor perceive.

 

[dcontroversal]

here is the problem.

we teach different gospels.

Paul makes it clear. there is only one gospel. any other gospel is not another, but a false gospel. and should be anathema'd.

so we may all be christian (per say) does not mean we are all headed to heaven, that is not the case.

Not to mention that if you teach a gospel of a different kind you cannot by default be Christian, as to add to or take away from the gospel taints the gospel, and if it is not of God it is sin and or of the devil....The problem many have is assuming that just because one names the name of Christ that they are Christian....and this is not the case.........!

 

[dcontroversal]

the problem is they do not see the point as of which one recieves eternal life.

To them it is an ongoing trek to gain that eternal life which can never be secure. And that is why they do not see it.

to us, there is a point in which we recieve eternal life, the seal of the spirit as our guarantee, the promise of being joint heirs, the Abba father we do not need to fear. This knowledge and hope brings us to the point we not only want to do work, we can't do enough.

but since they can't see this, their automatic go to is we do not praise works, or do them.

Yes and I agree the order is simple and is as follows...

LOST-->hear the Word-->believe the word--->saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise which is the pre-payment of our inheritance-->Justified at point of salvation-->set apart and usable (sanctified)--->works including the first act of obedience (immersion) which testifies of our inward birth and states publically by picture of our belief into the finished work of Christ and belief into the resurrection of Jesus.......

 

[dcontroversal]

It's hard for them to know God for they are so confused on the gift of Grace given us by God.

Confusion on grace confuses everything else.

No doubt and they reject the teaching of the bible which states...if it is of works then it is NO LONGER GRACE.....

FOR by GRACE are you SAVED through FAITH<------created UNTO GOOD WORKS......our creation as a new creation IN CHRIST is at the moment of SALVATION by faith based upon grace.....NOT WORKS.....

 

[dcontroversal]

stand in someone elses proof shows, your useing them, to justify ? a question you cant answer. .
jesus said let the dead bury there own.
how can stephen( turn on his own computer)(. h)

strange world. lol monkey majic

No doubt for sure.........!

 

[royalscot]

No doubt for sure.........!

i have no problem with searching and study of others, to gain a better understanding of any subject, inside or out side the bible.
how can you answer for an others revelation. the people of the bible were told by god to do a certain things. they wrote this down, and i read it,, listened to other preach, and teach, read books etc. and built up a better understanding of the bible, god, jesus, holy spirit , and the people in it. etc
all this is meaningless unless you,me etc believe in a god. if you don t have a personal relationship with god through jesus, then how can you.me have your own revelation and life with god. ie a direct line to him, via prayer or talking to him, when trouble comes etc,

and cant help wondering , why would anyone try s to exclude an other, when they exclude them selfs
ie if they dont believe ,what value is it to them, if someone else believes.

 

[dcontroversal]

i have no problem with searching and study of others, to gain a better understanding of any subject, inside or out side the bible.
how can you answer for an others revelation. the people of the bible were told by god to do a certain things. they wrote this down, and i read it,, listened to other preach, and teach, read books etc. and built up a better understanding of the bible, god, jesus, holy spirit , and the people in it. etc
all this is meaningless unless you,me etc believe in a god. if you don t have a personal relationship with god through jesus, then how can you.me have your own revelation and life with god. ie a direct line to him, via prayer or talking to him, when trouble comes etc,

and cant help wondering , why would anyone try s to exclude an other, when they exclude them selfs
ie if they dont believe ,what value is it to them, if someone else believes.

Yeah I agree.......All I know is the simple truth that we are not to be removed form the simplicity that is found in Christ and it is a simple thing that it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe....very simple truths to understand and it seems that men want to make it harder than it really is.....My bible teaches clearly that when you add works/water to faith FOR salvation it changes the gospel into a message that has no power to save and a message being double cursed by God...Galatians chapters 1 and 3 and at the end of the day we are justified by the faith OF Christ as found in Galatians 2:16-21.

 

[newbirth]

The repeated problem is that we say faith alone and they state back "so you deny baptism or good works". Well we have NEVER once said that. We have not even eluded to "don't get baptized" or "don't do good works". They have been ignoring what we say then add something we didn't say. Its only by God's grace that, at least you and I, have kept it too "sons of thunder" and not let the "lightning, hail and high winds" out but a few times.

the scripture teaches ...they believed and were baptised...you teach believe you are saved then baptised...we are saved by grace through faith...God brings us to repentance by his grace....repentance and baptism for the remission of sins is the act of faith...you don't know what it means to believe in him...aith without works is dead....
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:13

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

 

[newbirth]

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

No doubt.....and I agree lost-->hear the word-->believe the word-->saved, justified, sanctified and then works...

You are one of the following four....

1. BLIND and cannot read nor understand words
2. Flat out in denial of the truth
3. Wilfully lying about what is being said
4. Deceived by the devil and without truth

You make assertions without merit so you pick from the list above as you fit one of the four categories.

the scripture teaches ....
James 2:18-20King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

you teach...

.believe the word-->saved

which is faith without works...you believe do nothing and expect to be saved...shew me thy faith without thy works

 

[elf3]

the scripture teaches ...they believed and were baptised...you teach believe you are saved then baptised...we are saved by grace through faith...God brings us to repentance by his grace....repentance and baptism for the remission of sins is the act of faith...you don't know what it means to believe in him...aith without works is dead....
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 8:13

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Go to the other forum as I quoted a couple passages of Scripture that tells us how we are justified. Well that is unless you could care less about truth. Oh wait seeing how you keep repeating yourself you could care less so never mind.

"Newbirth"? Heck no more like "Frankenstein" as you refuse to read Scripture posted to you and you just keep bringing up subjects already addressed.

Yeah you opened up the can of "Son of thunder lightning hail and high winds" because of your constant headless chicken comments.

 

[newbirth]

Go to the other forum as I quoted a couple passages of Scripture that tells us how we are justified. Well that is unless you could care less about truth. Oh wait seeing how you keep repeating yourself you could care less so never mind.

"Newbirth"? Heck no more like "Frankenstein" as you refuse to read Scripture posted to you and you just keep bringing up subjects already addressed.

Yeah you opened up the can of "Son of thunder lightning hail and high winds" because of your constant headless chicken comments.

is this not the truth?...Paul teaches we are not justified by works of the law....and some conclude it means all works...James is explaining that to those who thinks it is faith only...
James 2:21-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?