Contradiction of WORDS

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Jan 27, 2013
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The thing about pick and choose is that no matter what verse you choose to choose all by itself, not just eventually, but almost immediately is taken out of context. Most people don't understand that when studying the Bible there are more than just the words we need to understand. Who it was written too, what type of writing is it, when it was written and by whom it was written. How many people know that many if not all of the Psalms were sung? OK now go try to sing Revelations lol. Context context context! One sentence in the Bible in context is most always defined by the other passages around it.

Exegesis..to draw out or explain...the act of interpreting or explaining the meanings of verses or passages of Scripture. (Do you do this correctly or incorrectly)

Pick and choose is totally in no way correct exegesis.

Matthew 16:18 "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."

I guess Peter forgot his name. Where is the rock that Jesus showed Peter? And wow must be a huge rock cause its gonna be a giant building!

UM?!! I think this would be known as wrong exegesis. And totally taken out of context but pretty good example to show how quickly it can be done.

So what yinz think? Should we study properly or just pick and choose?
25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and etc.


.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me." acts 10.
 
E

elf3

Guest
First, I would like to set the record straight on a couple of items that I have been accused of that are blatantly wrong.


I do do not believe in a works based salvation. It is a FAITH BASED salvation with works an important part.

Second, I Believe we are saved by the blood of Christ. There is no power in the water.

Matt. 16:27 does appear to,be talking about some type of rewards, although we are not told anything about them.

Actually, the second verse should be Rev. 2:10, not Rev. 20:12. Rev 2:10 talks about all the trials and tribulations a disciple must endure to remain faithful. Much of the language appears to be referring to,the destruction of the temple.

Finally, ÏI Cor. 5:10, he talks about Appearing before the judgment seat of Christ, mentions "bad" works, and also "the terror of the Lord. I think this involves a lot more than rewards.
No worries I'm not accusing, in fact I don't know about the accusations against you. I have had the same done to me about certain things.

You have Rev 20:12 listed in the original post but again no worries. I'll look at the other also.

I'm a bit busy today but I'll reply as soon as I can. Have a good day gator. Ttyl
 
A

Alligator

Guest
No worries I'm not accusing, in fact I don't know about the accusations against you. I have had the same done to me about certain things.

You have Rev 20:12 listed in the original post but again no worries. I'll look at the other also.

I'm a bit busy today but I'll reply as soon as I can. Have a good day gator. Ttyl

You too ..................
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
First, I would like to set the record straight on a couple of items that I have been accused of that are blatantly wrong.


I do do not believe in a works based salvation. It is a FAITH BASED salvation with works an important part.

Second, I Believe we are saved by the blood of Christ. There is no power in the water.

Matt. 16:27 does appear to,be talking about some type of rewards, although we are not told anything about them.

Actually, the second verse should be Rev. 2:10, not Rev. 20:12. Rev 2:10 talks about all the trials and tribulations a disciple must endure to remain faithful. Much of the language appears to be referring to,the destruction of the temple.

Finally, ÏI Cor. 5:10, he talks about Appearing before the judgment seat of Christ, mentions "bad" works, and also "the terror of the Lord. I think this involves a lot more than rewards.
So, exactly what do you believe......?

Me....

Saved by grace dia faith based upon the completed work of Christ which is eternal and cannot be lost

Baptism is the outward testimony to the inward conversion which is eternal and sealed by the H.S. which is the prepayment of our eternal inheritance

Works evidence to the people around us of the inward born again spirit and our standing in Christ, but do not add to or supplement our salvation

We will be judged for the things we do and or don't do in the flesh which will result in the gaining/keeping of and or loss of inheritance in the Kingdom of God and like 1st Corinthians 3 teaches we can be a vessel of honor (good works) with gold, silver and precious stones or a vessel of dishonor with works of wood, hay and stubble, suffer the loss of inheritance YET BE SAVED so as by fire (the skin of our teeth)

So, what do you believe in a nutshell like I just listed.......?
 
A

Alligator

Guest
So, exactly what do you believe......?

Me....

Saved by grace dia faith based upon the completed work of Christ which is eternal and cannot be lost

Baptism is the outward testimony to the inward conversion which is eternal and sealed by the H.S. which is the prepayment of our eternal inheritance

Works evidence to the people around us of the inward born again spirit and our standing in Christ, but do not add to or supplement our salvation

We will be judged for the things we do and or don't do in the flesh which will result in the gaining/keeping of and or loss of inheritance in the Kingdom of God and like 1st Corinthians 3 teaches we can be a vessel of honor (good works) with gold, silver and precious stones or a vessel of dishonor with works of wood, hay and stubble, suffer the loss of inheritance YET BE SAVED so as by fire (the skin of our teeth)

So, what do you believe in a nutshell like I just listed.......?

I will do that, but then I would like you to objectively read the attached artkcle. I copied it since he presents some things better than I could.

I believe we are saved by grace through faith Eph. 2:8-9
i believe we must believe in CHRIST JOhn 3:16
wee must confess Him. ROM. 10:9-10
We must repent of our sins LUKE 13:3
And we must be baptized. Mark 16:15-16










Objections to God's Plan of Salvation Considered

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]by[/TD]
[TD]Bert Thompson, Ph.D.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

When the topic of salvation is discussed, it is not unusual to hear certain objections to God’s designated plan. At times, such objections result from a misunderstanding of the steps involved in the salvation process, or the reason(s) for those steps. On occasion, however, the objections result from a stubborn refusal to acquiesce to God’s commands regarding what constitutes salvation. I would like to consider three such objections here.
IS SALVATION THE RESULT OF
“BAPTISMAL REGENERATION”?


Is the forgiveness of sins that results from being baptized due to some special power within the water? No. “Baptismal regeneration” is the idea that there is a miraculous power in the water that produces salvation (i.e., regeneration). As Wayne Jackson has noted: “…the notion that baptism is a ‘sacrament’ which has a sort of mysterious, innate power to remove the contamination of sin—independent of personal faith and a volitional submission to God’s plan of redemption”—is plainly at odds with biblical teaching (1997, 32:45). An examination of the Old Testament (which serves as our “tutor” [Galatians 3:24), and which contains things “for our learning” [Romans 15:4]) provides important instruction regarding this principle. When Naaman the leper was told by Elisha to dip seven times in the Jordan River, at first he refused, but eventually obeyed—and was healed. However, there was no meritorious power in the muddy waters of the Jordan. Naaman was healed because He did exactly what God commanded him to do, in exactly the way God commanded him to do it.
This was true of the Israelites’ salvation as well. On one occasion when they sinned, and God began to slay them for their unrighteousness, those who wished to repent and be spared were commanded to look upon a brass serpent on a pole in the midst of the camp (Numbers 21:1-9). There was no meritorious power in the serpent. Rather, the Israelites were saved from destruction because they did exactly what God commanded them to do, in exactly the way God commanded them to do it.
The New Testament presents the same principle. Jesus once encountered a man born blind (John 9). Then Lord spat on the ground, made a spittle/clay potion, and placed it over the man’s eyes. He then instructed the man to “go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (John 9:7). Was there medicinal power in Siloam’s waters? No. It was the man’s obedient faith that produced the end-result, not some miraculous power in the water. What would have happened if the man had refused to obey Christ, or had altered the Lord’s command? Suppose the man had reasoned: “If I wash in Siloam, some may think I am trusting in the water to be healed. Others may think that I am attempting to perform some kind of ‘work’ to ‘merit’ regaining my sight. Therefore I simply will ‘have faith in’ Christ, but I will not dip in the pool of Siloam.” Would the man have been healed? Most certainly not! What if Noah, during the construction of the ark, had followed God’s instructions to the letter, except for the fact that he decided to build the ark out of a material other than the gopher wood that God had commanded? Would Noah and his family have been saved? Most certainly not! Noah would have been guilty of violating God’s commandments, since he had not done exactly as God commanded him. Did not Jesus Himself say: “If ye love me, ye will keep My commandments” (John 14:15, emp. added)?
Peter used the case of Noah to discuss the relationship of baptism to salvation. He stated unequivocally that baptism is involved in salvation when he noted that, just as Noah and his family were transported from a polluted environment of corruption into a realm of deliverance, so in baptism we are moved from the polluted environment of defilement into a realm of redemption. It is by baptism that one enters “into Christ” (Romans 6:4; Galatians 3:27), wherein salvation is found (2 Timothy 2:10). In Ephesians 5:26 and Titus 3:5, Paul described baptism as a “washing of water” or a “washing of regeneration” wherein the sinner is “cleansed” or “saved.” [Baptist theologian A.T. Robertson admitted that both of these passages refer specifically to water baptism (1931, 4:607).] The power of baptism to remove sin lies not in the water, but in the God Who commanded the sinner to be baptized in the first place.
IS BAPTISM A HUMAN WORK?

Is baptism a meritorious human work? No. But is it required for a person to be saved? Yes. How is this possible? The Bible clearly teaches that we are not saved by works (Titus 3:4-7; Ephesians 2:9). Yet the Bible clearly teaches we are saved by works (James 2:14-24). Since inspiration guarantees that the Scriptures never will contradict themselves, it is obvious that two different kinds of works are under consideration in these passages.
The New Testament mentions at least four kinds of works: (1) works of the Law of Moses (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:20); (2) works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21); (3) works of merit (Titus 3:4-7); and (4) works resulting from obedience of faith (James 2:14-24). This last category often is referred to as “works of God.” This phrase does not mean works performed by God; rather, the intent is “works required and approved by God” (Thayer, 1958, p. 248; cf. Jackson, 1997, 32:47). Consider the following example from Jesus’ statements in John 6:27-29:
Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life.... They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.​
Within this context, Christ made it clear that there are works which humans must do to receive eternal life. Moreover, the passage affirms that believing itself is a work (“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”). It therefore follows that if one is saved without any type of works, then he is saved without faith, because faith is a work. Such a conclusion would throw the Bible into hopeless confusion!
In addition, it should be noted that repentance from sin is a divinely appointed work for man to perform prior to his reception of salvation. The people of ancient Nineveh “repented” at Jonah’s preaching (Matthew 12:41), yet the Old Testament record relates that “God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way” (Jonah 3:10). Thus, if one can be saved without any kind of works, he can be saved without repentance. Yet Jesus Himself declared that without repentance, one will surely perish (Luke 13:3,5).
But what about baptism? The New Testament specifically excludes baptism from the class of human meritorious works unrelated to redemption. The context of Titus 3:4-7 reveals the following information. (1) We are not saved by works of righteousness that we do by ourselves (i.e., according to any plan or course of action that we devised—see Thayer, p. 526). (2) We are saved by the “washing of regeneration” (i.e., baptism), exactly as 1 Peter 3:21 states. (3) Thus, baptism is excluded from all works of human righteousness that men contrive, but is itself a “work of God” (i.e., required and approved by God) necessary for salvation. When one is raised from the watery grave of baptism, it is according to the “working of God” (Colossians 2:12), and not any man-made plan. No one can suggest (justifiably) that baptism is a meritorious work of human design. When we are baptized, we are completely passive, and thus hardly can have performed any kind of “work.” Instead, we have obeyed God through saving faith. Our “works of God” were belief, repentance, confession, and baptism—all commanded by the Scriptures of one who would receive salvation as the free gift of God (Romans 6:23).
IS THE BAPTISM ASSOCIATED WITH
SALVATION HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM?


To circumvent the connection between water baptism and salvation, some have suggested that the baptism discussed in passages such as Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and 1 Peter 3:21 is Holy Spirit baptism. But such a position cannot be correct. Christ commanded His followers—after His death and ascension—to go into all the world and “make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:18-20). That same command applies no less to Christians today.
During the early parts of the first century, we know there was more than one baptism in existence (e.g., John’s baptism, Holy Spirit baptism, Christ’s baptism, etc.). But by the time Paul wrote his epistle to the Christians in Ephesus, only one of those baptisms remained. He stated specifically in Ephesians 4:4-5: “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Which one baptism remained? One thing we know for certain: Christ never would give His disciples a command that they could not carry out.
The Scriptures, however, teach that Jesus administers baptism of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:15-17). Yet Christians were commanded to baptize those whom they taught, and who believed (John 3:16), repented of their sins (Luke 13:3), and confessed Christ as the Son of God (Matthew 10:32). It is clear, then, that the baptism commanded by Christ was not Holy Spirit baptism. If it were, Christ would be put in the untenable position of having commanded His disciples to do something they could not do—baptize in the Holy Spirit. However, they could baptize in water, which is exactly what they did. And that is exactly what we still are doing today. Baptism in the Holy Spirit no longer is available; only water baptism remains, and is the one true baptism commanded by Christ for salvation (Ephesians 4:4-5; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38).
When a person does precisely what the Lord has commanded, he has not “merited” or “earned” salvation. Rather, his obedience is evidence of his faith (James 2:18). Are we saved by God’s grace? Indeed we are (Ephesians 2:8-9). But the fact that we are saved by grace does not negate human responsibility in obeying God’s commands. Every person who wishes to be saved must exhibit the “obedience of faith” commanded within God’s Word (Romans 1:5; 16:26). A part of that obedience is adhering to God’s command to be baptized.
REFERENCES

Jackson, Wayne (1997), “The Matter of ‘Baptismal Regeneration,’ ” Christian Courier, 32:45-46, April.
Jackson, Wayne (1997), “The Role of ‘Works’ in the Plan of Salvation,” Christian Courier, 32:47, April.
Robertson, A.T. (1931), Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman).
Thayer, J.H. (1958 reprint), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark).

[HR][/HR]
Copyright © 1998 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved.

We are happy to grant permission for items in the "Doctrinal Matters" section to be reproduced in their entirety, as long as the following stipulations are observed: (1) Apologetics Press must be designated as the original publisher; (2) the specific Apologetics Press Web site URL must be noted; (3) the author’s name must remain attached to the materials; (4) any references, footnotes, or endnotes that accompany the article must be included with any written reproduction of the article; (5) alterations of any kind are strictly forbidden (e.g., photographs, charts, graphics, quotations, etc. must be reproduced exactly as they appear in the original); (6) serialization of written material (e.g., running an article in several parts) is permitted, as long as the whole of the material is made available, without editing, in a reasonable length of time; (7) articles, in whole or in part, may not be offered for sale or included in items offered for sale; and (8) articles may be reproduced in electronic form for posting on Web sites pending they are not edited or altered from their original content and that credit is given to Apologetics Press, including the web location from which the articles were taken.

For catalog, samples, or further information, contact:

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Montgomery, Alabama 36117
U.S.A.
Phone (334) 272-8558

http://www.apologeticspress.org
 
Jan 27, 2013
4,769
18
0
I will do that, but then I would like you to objectively read the attached artkcle. I copied it since he presents some things better than I could.

I believe we are saved by grace through faith Eph. 2:8-9
i believe we must believe in CHRIST JOhn 3:16
wee must confess Him. ROM. 10:9-10
We must repent of our sins LUKE 13:3
And we must be baptized. Mark 16:15-16










Objections to God's Plan of Salvation Considered

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]by[/TD]
[TD]Bert Thompson, Ph.D.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

When the topic of salvation is discussed, it is not unusual to hear certain objections to God’s designated plan. At times, such objections result from a misunderstanding of the steps involved in the salvation process, or the reason(s) for those steps. On occasion, however, the objections result from a stubborn refusal to acquiesce to God’s commands regarding what constitutes salvation. I would like to consider three such objections here.
IS SALVATION THE RESULT OF
“BAPTISMAL REGENERATION”?


Is the forgiveness of sins that results from being baptized due to some special power within the water? No. “Baptismal regeneration” is the idea that there is a miraculous power in the water that produces salvation (i.e., regeneration). As Wayne Jackson has noted: “…the notion that baptism is a ‘sacrament’ which has a sort of mysterious, innate power to remove the contamination of sin—independent of personal faith and a volitional submission to God’s plan of redemption”—is plainly at odds with biblical teaching (1997, 32:45). An examination of the Old Testament (which serves as our “tutor” [Galatians 3:24), and which contains things “for our learning” [Romans 15:4]) provides important instruction regarding this principle. When Naaman the leper was told by Elisha to dip seven times in the Jordan River, at first he refused, but eventually obeyed—and was healed. However, there was no meritorious power in the muddy waters of the Jordan. Naaman was healed because He did exactly what God commanded him to do, in exactly the way God commanded him to do it.
This was true of the Israelites’ salvation as well. On one occasion when they sinned, and God began to slay them for their unrighteousness, those who wished to repent and be spared were commanded to look upon a brass serpent on a pole in the midst of the camp (Numbers 21:1-9). There was no meritorious power in the serpent. Rather, the Israelites were saved from destruction because they did exactly what God commanded them to do, in exactly the way God commanded them to do it.
The New Testament presents the same principle. Jesus once encountered a man born blind (John 9). Then Lord spat on the ground, made a spittle/clay potion, and placed it over the man’s eyes. He then instructed the man to “go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (John 9:7). Was there medicinal power in Siloam’s waters? No. It was the man’s obedient faith that produced the end-result, not some miraculous power in the water. What would have happened if the man had refused to obey Christ, or had altered the Lord’s command? Suppose the man had reasoned: “If I wash in Siloam, some may think I am trusting in the water to be healed. Others may think that I am attempting to perform some kind of ‘work’ to ‘merit’ regaining my sight. Therefore I simply will ‘have faith in’ Christ, but I will not dip in the pool of Siloam.” Would the man have been healed? Most certainly not! What if Noah, during the construction of the ark, had followed God’s instructions to the letter, except for the fact that he decided to build the ark out of a material other than the gopher wood that God had commanded? Would Noah and his family have been saved? Most certainly not! Noah would have been guilty of violating God’s commandments, since he had not done exactly as God commanded him. Did not Jesus Himself say: “If ye love me, ye will keep My commandments” (John 14:15, emp. added)?
Peter used the case of Noah to discuss the relationship of baptism to salvation. He stated unequivocally that baptism is involved in salvation when he noted that, just as Noah and his family were transported from a polluted environment of corruption into a realm of deliverance, so in baptism we are moved from the polluted environment of defilement into a realm of redemption. It is by baptism that one enters “into Christ” (Romans 6:4; Galatians 3:27), wherein salvation is found (2 Timothy 2:10). In Ephesians 5:26 and Titus 3:5, Paul described baptism as a “washing of water” or a “washing of regeneration” wherein the sinner is “cleansed” or “saved.” [Baptist theologian A.T. Robertson admitted that both of these passages refer specifically to water baptism (1931, 4:607).] The power of baptism to remove sin lies not in the water, but in the God Who commanded the sinner to be baptized in the first place.
IS BAPTISM A HUMAN WORK?

Is baptism a meritorious human work? No. But is it required for a person to be saved? Yes. How is this possible? The Bible clearly teaches that we are not saved by works (Titus 3:4-7; Ephesians 2:9). Yet the Bible clearly teaches we are saved by works (James 2:14-24). Since inspiration guarantees that the Scriptures never will contradict themselves, it is obvious that two different kinds of works are under consideration in these passages.
The New Testament mentions at least four kinds of works: (1) works of the Law of Moses (Galatians 2:16; Romans 3:20); (2) works of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21); (3) works of merit (Titus 3:4-7); and (4) works resulting from obedience of faith (James 2:14-24). This last category often is referred to as “works of God.” This phrase does not mean works performed by God; rather, the intent is “works required and approved by God” (Thayer, 1958, p. 248; cf. Jackson, 1997, 32:47). Consider the following example from Jesus’ statements in John 6:27-29:
Work not for the food which perisheth, but for the food which abideth unto eternal life.... They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.​
Within this context, Christ made it clear that there are works which humans must do to receive eternal life. Moreover, the passage affirms that believing itself is a work (“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”). It therefore follows that if one is saved without any type of works, then he is saved without faith, because faith is a work. Such a conclusion would throw the Bible into hopeless confusion!
In addition, it should be noted that repentance from sin is a divinely appointed work for man to perform prior to his reception of salvation. The people of ancient Nineveh “repented” at Jonah’s preaching (Matthew 12:41), yet the Old Testament record relates that “God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way” (Jonah 3:10). Thus, if one can be saved without any kind of works, he can be saved without repentance. Yet Jesus Himself declared that without repentance, one will surely perish (Luke 13:3,5).
But what about baptism? The New Testament specifically excludes baptism from the class of human meritorious works unrelated to redemption. The context of Titus 3:4-7 reveals the following information. (1) We are not saved by works of righteousness that we do by ourselves (i.e., according to any plan or course of action that we devised—see Thayer, p. 526). (2) We are saved by the “washing of regeneration” (i.e., baptism), exactly as 1 Peter 3:21 states. (3) Thus, baptism is excluded from all works of human righteousness that men contrive, but is itself a “work of God” (i.e., required and approved by God) necessary for salvation. When one is raised from the watery grave of baptism, it is according to the “working of God” (Colossians 2:12), and not any man-made plan. No one can suggest (justifiably) that baptism is a meritorious work of human design. When we are baptized, we are completely passive, and thus hardly can have performed any kind of “work.” Instead, we have obeyed God through saving faith. Our “works of God” were belief, repentance, confession, and baptism—all commanded by the Scriptures of one who would receive salvation as the free gift of God (Romans 6:23).
IS THE BAPTISM ASSOCIATED WITH
SALVATION HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM?


To circumvent the connection between water baptism and salvation, some have suggested that the baptism discussed in passages such as Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and 1 Peter 3:21 is Holy Spirit baptism. But such a position cannot be correct. Christ commanded His followers—after His death and ascension—to go into all the world and “make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:18-20). That same command applies no less to Christians today.
During the early parts of the first century, we know there was more than one baptism in existence (e.g., John’s baptism, Holy Spirit baptism, Christ’s baptism, etc.). But by the time Paul wrote his epistle to the Christians in Ephesus, only one of those baptisms remained. He stated specifically in Ephesians 4:4-5: “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Which one baptism remained? One thing we know for certain: Christ never would give His disciples a command that they could not carry out.
The Scriptures, however, teach that Jesus administers baptism of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 3:11; Luke 3:15-17). Yet Christians were commanded to baptize those whom they taught, and who believed (John 3:16), repented of their sins (Luke 13:3), and confessed Christ as the Son of God (Matthew 10:32). It is clear, then, that the baptism commanded by Christ was not Holy Spirit baptism. If it were, Christ would be put in the untenable position of having commanded His disciples to do something they could not do—baptize in the Holy Spirit. However, they could baptize in water, which is exactly what they did. And that is exactly what we still are doing today. Baptism in the Holy Spirit no longer is available; only water baptism remains, and is the one true baptism commanded by Christ for salvation (Ephesians 4:4-5; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38).
When a person does precisely what the Lord has commanded, he has not “merited” or “earned” salvation. Rather, his obedience is evidence of his faith (James 2:18). Are we saved by God’s grace? Indeed we are (Ephesians 2:8-9). But the fact that we are saved by grace does not negate human responsibility in obeying God’s commands. Every person who wishes to be saved must exhibit the “obedience of faith” commanded within God’s Word (Romans 1:5; 16:26). A part of that obedience is adhering to God’s command to be baptized.
REFERENCES

Jackson, Wayne (1997), “The Matter of ‘Baptismal Regeneration,’ ” Christian Courier, 32:45-46, April.
Jackson, Wayne (1997), “The Role of ‘Works’ in the Plan of Salvation,” Christian Courier, 32:47, April.
Robertson, A.T. (1931), Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman).
Thayer, J.H. (1958 reprint), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark).

[HR][/HR]
Copyright © 1998 Apologetics Press, Inc. All rights reserved.

We are happy to grant permission for items in the "Doctrinal Matters" section to be reproduced in their entirety, as long as the following stipulations are observed: (1) Apologetics Press must be designated as the original publisher; (2) the specific Apologetics Press Web site URL must be noted; (3) the author’s name must remain attached to the materials; (4) any references, footnotes, or endnotes that accompany the article must be included with any written reproduction of the article; (5) alterations of any kind are strictly forbidden (e.g., photographs, charts, graphics, quotations, etc. must be reproduced exactly as they appear in the original); (6) serialization of written material (e.g., running an article in several parts) is permitted, as long as the whole of the material is made available, without editing, in a reasonable length of time; (7) articles, in whole or in part, may not be offered for sale or included in items offered for sale; and (8) articles may be reproduced in electronic form for posting on Web sites pending they are not edited or altered from their original content and that credit is given to Apologetics Press, including the web location from which the articles were taken.

For catalog, samples, or further information, contact:

Apologetics Press
230 Landmark Drive
Montgomery, Alabama 36117
U.S.A.
Phone (334) 272-8558

http://www.apologeticspress.org
stand in someone elses proof shows, your useing them, to justify ? a question you cant answer. .
jesus said let the dead bury there own.
how can stephen( turn on his own computer)(. h)

strange world. lol monkey majic
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I will do that, but then I would like you to objectively read the attached artkcle. I copied it since he presents some things better than I could.

I believe we are saved by grace through faith Eph. 2:8-9
i believe we must believe in CHRIST JOhn 3:16
wee must confess Him. ROM. 10:9-10
We must repent of our sins LUKE 13:3
And we must be baptized. Mark 16:15-16








Apologetics Press | Bible Contradiction |
So then you do believe that water is part of it even tough water immersion is a work of righteousness?

Second, I Believe we are saved by the blood of Christ. There is no power in the water. <--your quote
 
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Since everyone who believes and all who believe are saved,
nothing else can be essential to salvation.




What a crock. To claim works save is to be the antithesis of prophet Paul.

Who said to the question, What MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus & you shall be saved? Was it Obamer?

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Who said,
By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works?
Was it Al Sharpton?

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
Who wrote Romans? Was it Bill Clinton?
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe;

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith,

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 4:1ff
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe,

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace;

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[NO WATER, NO WORKS]

17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

[NO WATER, NO WORKS]
What blows the mind of the truths listed here is that fact that anyone who teaches works and water for salvation have TO DO SEVERAL THINGS TO BELIEVE AND TEACH WHAT THEY TEACH...

1. Take a handful of verses out of context
2. Twist or deny particular words inspired by God
3. Deny the validity of the truths presented by God in the scriptures
4. Deny the very element of saving faith as opposed to being faithful after salvation
5. State that the completed work of Jesus Christ was not and is not sufficient to
a. Please the Heavenly Father
b. Save someone to the uttermost
c. Needs a supplement of your abilities to keep and or earn
6. Tramples the Son of God underfoot and denies the Father's plan which had ben put in action before the foundation of the world!
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Dude atwood loves big words LIKE THIS. Reckon why?
 
E

elf3

Guest
Only got a couple words for you Dc and "Cross preacher" work work work work work and the job never gets done by our work! Why is that so hard to understand? It still amazes me how Eph 2:8,9 can be reworded.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
Only got a couple words for you Dc and "Cross preacher" work work work work work and the job never gets done by our work! Why is that so hard to understand? It still amazes me how Eph 2:8,9 can be reworded.
I never preach works, I am the cross preacher and the work was done at the cross. It is by faith in the work of the cross that sets us free and allows the Holy Spirit to work in us producing fruit and not of our own.
 
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The Bible says we are not saved by works.

The Bible says faith without works is dead which means if you do not have works then faith is void in your life and we are saved by faith.

This is not a contradiction not saved by works,saved by works.

Simply put,not saved by works-works of the flesh,saved by works,or works to have faith activated in our life-works of the Spirit.

When the Bible says we are not saved by works it means we are not saved by anything we do according to the flesh like the Old Testament physical ordinances or false religions but only by Jesus Christ.

When the Bible says faith without works is dead it means we have to have works of the Spirit to have faith activated in our life which we are saved by faith.

This is not talking about works to be initially saved because you are not living for God and being led of the Spirit except repenting,but after you are initially saved you have to have works of the Spirit to have faith activated in your life.

So we are not saved by any works we do according to the flesh to be right with God like the Old Testament physical ordinances or false religions,but after we are initially saved we have to have works of the Spirit,like feed the poor,preach the Gospel,and do good,to have faith active in our life.

So there is no contradiction between the 2 because one is trying to get to heaven by works according to the flesh which will not save us,and the other is doing works of the Spirit to have faith active in our life.

Works of the flesh-no bearing on salvation,works of the Spirit-faith active in your life,bearing on salvation.No contradiction.

We all know we have to have works of the Spirit after we are saved so there should be no problem with that scripture faith without works is dead,because we all must preach the Gospel,feed and clothe the poor,and generally love people.

The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling so what do people think of that one because it sounds like we have a responsibility in our salvation after we are saved to keep ourselves right without slipping.
 
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elf3

Guest
I never preach works, I am the cross preacher and the work was done at the cross. It is by faith in the work of the cross that sets us free and allows the Holy Spirit to work in us producing fruit and not of our own.
Well that is why I nicknamed you the "Cross preacher" brother!!
 
K

Kerry

Guest
I gladly accept that name. Though I am not worthy of it.
 
E

elf3

Guest
The Bible says we are not saved by works.

The Bible says faith without works is dead which means if you do not have works then faith is void in your life and we are saved by faith.

This is not a contradiction not saved by works,saved by works.

Simply put,not saved by works-works of the flesh,saved by works,or works to have faith activated in our life-works of the Spirit.

When the Bible says we are not saved by works it means we are not saved by anything we do according to the flesh like the Old Testament physical ordinances or false religions but only by Jesus Christ.

When the Bible says faith without works is dead it means we have to have works of the Spirit to have faith activated in our life which we are saved by faith.

This is not talking about works to be initially saved because you are not living for God and being led of the Spirit except repenting,but after you are initially saved you have to have works of the Spirit to have faith activated in your life.

So we are not saved by any works we do according to the flesh to be right with God like the Old Testament physical ordinances or false religions,but after we are initially saved we have to have works of the Spirit,like feed the poor,preach the Gospel,and do good,to have faith active in our life.

So there is no contradiction between the 2 because one is trying to get to heaven by works according to the flesh which will not save us,and the other is doing works of the Spirit to have faith active in our life.

Works of the flesh-no bearing on salvation,works of the Spirit-faith active in your life,bearing on salvation.No contradiction.

We all know we have to have works of the Spirit after we are saved so there should be no problem with that scripture faith without works is dead,because we all must preach the Gospel,feed and clothe the poor,and generally love people.

The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling so what do people think of that one because it sounds like we have a responsibility in our salvation after we are saved to keep ourselves right without slipping.
You need a good nickname brother!!! Hmm let me think a bit. You have an excellent way with words in my opinion.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
stand in someone elses proof shows, your useing them, to justify ? a question you cant answer. .
jesus said let the dead bury there own.
how can stephen( turn on his own computer)(. h)

strange world. lol monkey majic
I don't need someone else's proof for anything, I was merely presenting an article from someone better known than i
am, if you were paying attention other posters have done it, and just what questions have I not answered?.
?
You make an accusation you had better be prepared to back it up.
 
E

elf3

Guest
I don't need someone else's proof for anything, I was merely presenting an article from someone better known than i
am, if you were paying attention other posters have done it, and just what questions have I not answered?.
?
You make an accusation you had better be prepared to back it up.
Actually I would use someone else's words to explain certain things I believe too. Not because they said it but because they say it better than I could. All still Biblical just better explanation. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as it's Biblically based.
 
A

Alligator

Guest
So then you do believe that water is part of it even tough water immersion is a work of righteousness?

Second, I Believe we are saved by the blood of Christ. There is no power in the water. <--your quote
I do not believe baptism is a work of righteousness . It is a work of faith. Works righteousness are works that we do thanking we are earning our salvation. See Titus 3:5.

The power is in the blood, as the song goes.But we contact that blood when we are baptized into Christ. Gal. 3:26-27.
 
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Only got a couple words for you Dc and "Cross preacher" work work work work work and the job never gets done by our work! Why is that so hard to understand? It still amazes me how Eph 2:8,9 can be reworded.
Well you know what I believe for sure! Not BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done!