Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[kaylagrl]

Only a remnant of the Jews obeyed the gospel in Acts 2, most rejected it and were lost.


Romans 9 (when not wrested by Calvinists) refutes Pre-millennialism.

In Rom 9, Paul already knows that God has not only cast off fleshly Israel but grafted in the Gentiles. Before making the plain statement that fleshly Israel has been cast off and Gentiles grafted in [Rom 11], what Paul does in Romans 9 is to first refute the arguments he knew the Jews would have in God casting them off. Paul goes to great length using irrefutable, air-tight logic that God was just and righteous in not only in casting off the Jews but also grafting in the Gentiles. One argument Paul makes in Rom 9 is " I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Paul's point is God can choose or not choose whomever He wants, God is not obligated to any person or nation. God could choose the Gentiles to salvation if he wants to. Pre-millennialism says God is obligated to choose the Jews yet Paul said He is not.

GOD obligated him self to one nation.He could use Gentiles to salvation but He did not. Salvation first to the Jews and then the Gentiles.Plainly said in the Word.

 

[SeaBass]

Obedience is law.

We are not under law, but grace.

You can not be obedient enough to be saved, No matter how good you are, the law will condemn you,

come out from under the law and chose Christ. You still have not heeded the schoolmaster.

Grace does not exclude law. If there was no law then there would be no such thing as sin, 1 Jn 3:4.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Like we keep saying, if you go that route spiritualizing the texts, you can make them say ANYTHING YOU WANT THEM TO SAY.

No. Jesus said all the Scriptures pointed to HIM.
Notice that I find HIM and His work on the cross. "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy". I never interpret them to find anything else but the testimony of Jesus.

 

[SeaBass]

Maybe you should ask Hitler.

All the records of the Jews genealogy was destroyed, Providentally destroyed as far as I am concerned.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Only a remnant of the Jews obeyed the gospel in Acts 2, most rejected it and were lost.

Yep. just like paul said in romans 11 (blinded in part) or do you not understand what "in part" means?

Romans 9 (when not wrested by Calvinists) refutes Pre-millennialism.

No it does not. Romans 9 is about salvation, romans 11 refutes post mills, and amills.. Nice try though.

In Rom 9, Paul already knows that God has not only cast off fleshly Israel but grafted in the Gentiles. Before making the plain statement that fleshly Israel has been cast off and Gentiles grafted in [Rom 11], what Paul does in Romans 9 is to first refute the arguments he knew the Jews would have in God casting them off. Paul goes to great length using irrefutable, air-tight logic that God was just and righteous in not only in casting off the Jews but also grafting in the Gentiles. One argument Paul makes in Rom 9 is " I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." Paul's point is God can choose or not choose whomever He wants, God is not obligated to any person or nation. God could choose the Gentiles to salvation if he wants to. Pre-millennialism says God is obligated to choose the Jews yet Paul said He is not.

rom 9 showed God did not save a jew just because they were a jew, And God did not make a mistake picking Isreal. it does not refute romans 11, which says Israel is blind in part. until a future date..

Nice try though

 

[SeaBass]

Genesis 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To you and your offspring I will give this land."

Genesis 13:14,15 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east an west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted.

Genesis 15:5-8 He took him outside and said, "Look up at the sky and count the stars--if indeed you can count them". The he said to him, "So shall your offspring be." Abram believed the LORD and he credited it to him as righteousness. He also said to him, "I am the LORD, who brought you out of the Ur of Chadeans to give you this land to take possession of it." But Abram said, "Sovereign LORD, how can I know that I will gain possession it?"

Then God proceeds to set up for a Blood Covenant - in a Blood Covenant the animals are cut in two and arranged on each side - leaving a path down the middle for the parties in the covenant to walk between the pieces. BUT God caused Abram to fall into a deep sleep - 15:12) As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, . . . 17) When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. [representing God passing between the pieces] On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, "To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates ---- Now a Blood Covenant is between the people that participate - but Abraham did not participate for God put him in a deep sleep . . . therefore the covenant was a "unilateral" covenant - i.e. done by one person - God himself made a covenant basically with himself concerning Abraham - how powerful is that?!

You actually believe that God would negate this covenant?

The land covenant was CONDITIONAL, Josh 23:14-16. Where did God say they could disobey Him yet STAY on the land anyway?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Grace does not exclude law. If there was no law then there would be no such thing as sin, 1 Jn 3:4.

Your right,

The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, It proves we are ALL sinners, and need Gods grace, this should lead us to Christ, but some of us still want to get their by law. The law has yet to lead them to Christ, They still think they can be good enough.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The land covenant was CONDITIONAL, Josh 23:14-16. Where did God say they could disobey Him yet STAY on the land anyway?

we are not discussing staying in land, we are discussing the return to the land as prophesied AFTER they repent. so why do you keep repeating the same stuff over and over, which does NOT directly relate to the thread?

 

[SeaBass]

SeaBass

The Lord can keep His truth from anyone and for a good reason

.... He already knows beforehand that one will never turn to Him in the first place

He knows in advance about the choices that one will make

He is totally just and commits no error with His decisions

Eze 33:11 "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"

God does not want any person to be lost but desires the wicked repent and live. So it is not in God's nature to blind man against man's will forcing man to be lost against his will.

 

[crossnote]

Grace does not exclude law. If there was no law then there would be no such thing as sin, 1 Jn 3:4.

Yeah, just as forgiveness does not exclude debt.

 

[prove-all]

The land covenant was CONDITIONAL, Josh 23:14-16. Where did God say they could disobey Him yet STAY on the land anyway?

If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men,
and with the stripes of the children of men:

But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee:
thy throne shall be established for ever.

Jacob is being punished by stripes of men but still here, physical decendents.

 

[crossnote]

No. Jesus said all the Scriptures pointed to HIM.
Notice that I find HIM and His work on the cross. "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy". I never interpret them to find anything else but the testimony of Jesus.

They all point to Him as they come to pass otherwise what do you do with the Scriptures that speak of His final Coming? They haven't yet been fulfilled in Him.

 

[SeaBass]

to be a jew would be a direct physical decendent of Judah

Paul's argument in Rom 9 is just being a fleshly descendant of Abraham does not automatically make one a child of God.

 

[crossnote]

All the records of the Jews genealogy was destroyed, Providentally destroyed as far as I am concerned.

So Hitler boo boo'd exterminating millions of so called Jews?

 

[john832]

Ive been throwed outta better places than this...Is that your saying? Lol Sounds like John Wayne.I may have to borrow this one lol lol lol!

Yep, that one is an original.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Crossnote, that would be mostly what Jesus said would happen in the Gospels.
There surely will be some literal "comingz to pass"...
I just believe that the "land" that is to be restored to Jews is the land that Jesus preached (not a worldly kingdom but fulfilling the will of the Father on EARTH).

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Makes one think about how to interpret that "thousand years". That's why I dont believe in the most versions I'm hearing.

 

[SeaBass]

Jeremiah 31:35-37King James Version (KJV)

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

......and Jer 19:11 says "And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury."

 

[john832]

Sometimes, the old man in me comes out. I subscribe to the principle of disagreement of write my angry comment, cancel it, then disagree appropriately.

And then humbly and patiently teach from the Word. I too, sometimes overreact and have to apologize.

 

[kennethcadwell]

we are not discussing staying in land, we are discussing the return to the land as prophesied AFTER they repent. so why do you keep repeating the same stuff over and over, which does NOT directly relate to the thread?

You are mentioning repentance.
Just to get what I am hearing from you, are you just saying repenting of sins to return to the land or are you considering the acceptance and belief of Jesus Christ as the Messiah?

Because to me they have not done either. There are still a lot of Jews who walk in sin of unbelief, and still to this day do not accept Jesus as being the Messiah. Some label Him as a great teacher or prophet, but if you try to say more about Him they run you out and tell you to stop blaspheming.

 

[john832]

God's chosen now is Christians, no nations, no one else.

I do have to disagree with this my friend. Israel is yet to become the nation God chose it to be. Israel will lead the Gentiles to salvation in the Millennium.