THE CALLING OUT OF THE BRIDE, to go to The Wedding of the Lamb

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Nov 3, 2014
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My comments:

The "elect" are not the "church" in the context of Matthew 24 as many think, but the believing mortals of Israel who will survive the coming tribulation period .... the time of Jacob's trouble

Matthew 24 has nothing to do with today's "church"

The Lord will limit the time frame of the 70th week .... otherwise there would be be no elect saved .... Satan's beast would kill them all if given enough time
 
Nov 3, 2014
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And there will be no tribulation temple built for the Lord on the mount .... this will come just after the tribulation period

Neither will Satan's beast make any "peace treaty" with Israel

This idea comes from an incorrect rendering of Daniel 9:26-27 .... the beast will be released from the abyss at the beginning of the tribulation of 2550 days and this one will be a war monger from the get-go
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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My comments:

The "elect" are not the "church" in the context of Matthew 24 as many think, but the believing mortals of Israel who will survive the coming tribulation period .... the time of Jacob's trouble

Matthew 24 has nothing to do with today's "church"

The Lord will limit the time frame of the 70th week .... otherwise there would be be no elect saved .... Satan's beast would kill them all if given enough time
Well, in this case, we must agree to disagree. I do believe the elect are those in God's Church.
 
Nov 3, 2014
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"Revelation shows the marriage supper of the lamb comes before the 1,000 years. Chapter 19 shows that the marriage supper has come, and then in chapter 20 refers to the 1,000 year period"


No doubt .... and there is a reason why the Lord's pre-tribulation Ecclesia are already immortal before the tribulation begins .... and during the same

[Revelation 3:10; 4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 13:6; 14:17; 18:4; 19:1-9; 19:14; 20:4 [those already on thrones .... symbol of the Lord's government]
 
Nov 3, 2014
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Well, in this case, we must agree to disagree. I do believe the elect are those in God's Church


No they are not .... the Lord's Ecclesia will be made immortal before the 70th week decreed for Israel begins

Matthew 24 and Luke 21:20-36 are both a focus upon national Israel in the tribulation period .... the time of Jacob's trouble .... this has nothing to do with today's church

For example; if one places the "church" in the context of Matthew 24 it simply does not make any sense

Is the "church" going to migrate to Israel and flee into the Jordanian wilderness when the abomination is seen in relationship to the temple mount? [Zechariah 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Revelation 12;6; 12:14]

No .... the Lord's entire discourse is a future projection of the time of the end of this present age .... 70 AD was not the time that He speaks of .... this is what the preterist teaches and it is absolutely false
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
Revelation shows the marriage supper of the lamb comes before the 1,000 years. Chapter 19 shows that the marriage supper has come, and then in chapter 20 refers to the 1,000 year period.
I can see why you would say that the marriage of the Lamb is at Rev.19:7-9 " the marriage of the Lamb has come" and in v.9 "Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of he Lamb!" But, what follows is the Great Supper of God.19:17 "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God." v.11 "He (JESUS) judges and makes war". Not good to marry and go to war. Also. in 20:4 The martyrs are raised to life and they reign with us and with Christ for 1,000 yrs. If the marriage is in ch. 19 the martyrs will miss the wedding. And at the end of ch 20 the wicked dead are raised and sent to the lake of fire. All Jesus dirty work is now done, it is time to settle down and get married. Therefore, I conclude, the wedding is at ch.21:2 "Then, I John, saw the holy city, the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband," v9 "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife." I may be wrong, but it will be OK with me . because Jesus , my Husband, has it all under His control. Love to all. Hoffco
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Matthew 22
23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him,24 asking, "Teacher, Moses said, 'If a man dies having no children, his brother as next of kin shall marry his wife, and raise up children for his brother.'25 Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother;26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh.27 Last of all, the woman died.28 In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."
29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God:32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Not good to marry and go to war.
Depends on who you're married to, Hoffco. Some could maybe use more peace and quiet.

If the marriage is in ch. 19 the martyrs will miss the wedding.
Well, if they weren't there when the Lord came for His bride, were being a bunch of scoffers, why should the hos be there?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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And there will be no tribulation temple built for the Lord on the mount .... this will come just after the tribulation period

Neither will Satan's beast make any "peace treaty" with Israel

This idea comes from an incorrect rendering of Daniel 9:26-27 .... the beast will be released from the abyss at the beginning of the tribulation of 2550 days and this one will be a war monger from the get-go
Daniel 9:26-27 (NIV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him".

9:27a. This verse unveils what will occur in the 70th seven years. This seven-year period will begin after the Rapture of the church (which will consummate God's program in this present Age). The 70th "seven" will continue till the return of Jesus Christ to the earth. Because Jesus said this will be a time of "great distress" (Matt. 24:21), this period is often called the Tribulation.
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A significant event that will mark the beginning of this seven-year period is the confirming of a covenant. This covenant will be made with many, that is, with Daniel's people, the nation Israel. "The ruler who will come" (Dan. 9:26) will be this covenant-maker, for that person is the antecedent of the word he in verse 27. As a yet-future ruler he will be the final head of the fourth empire (the little horn of the fourth beast, 7:8).
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The covenant he will make will evidently be a peace covenant, in which he will guarantee Israel's safety in the land. This suggests that Israel will be in her land but will be unable to defend herself for she will have lost any support she may have had previously. Therefore she will need and welcome the peacemaking role of this head of the confederation of 10 European (Roman) nations. In offering this covenant, this ruler will pose as a prince of peace, and Israel will accept his authority. But then in the middle of that "seven," after three and one-half years, he will break the covenant. According to 11:45, he will then move from Europe into the land of Israel.
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This ruler will end... sacrifice and offering. This expression refers to the entire Levitical system, which suggests that Israel will have restored that system in the first half of the 70th "seven." After this ruler gains worldwide political power, he will assume power in the religious realm as well and will cause the world to worship him (2 Thes. 2:4; Rev. 13:8). To receive such worship, he will terminate all organized religions. Posing as the world's rightful king and god and as Israel's prince of peace, he will then turn against Israel and become her destroyer and defiler.
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9:27b. Daniel was told that "the ruler who will come" (v. 26) will place abominations on a wing of the temple. Christ referred to this incident: "You [will] see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation" (Matt. 24:15). John wrote that the false prophet will set up an image to this ruler and that the world will be compelled to worship it (Rev. 13:14-15). But then his end will come (the end that is decreed is poured out on him). With his false prophet he will be cast into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth (Rev. 19:20; cf. Dan. 7:11, 26).
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This covenant could not have been made or confirmed by Christ at His First Advent, as amillenarians teach, because: (a) His ministry did not last seven years, (b) His death did not stop sacrifices and offerings, (c) He did not set up "the abomination that causes desolation" (Matt. 24:15). Amillenarians suggest that Christ confirmed (in the sense of fulfilling) the Abrahamic Covenant but the Gospels give no indication He did that in His First Advent.
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As stated, the Antichrist will break his covenant with Israel at the beginning of the second half of the 70th "seven," that is, it will be broken for three and one-half years. This is called "a time, times, and half a time" (Dan. 7:25; 12:7; Rev. 12:14). The fact that this is the same as the three and one-half years, which in turn are equated with 1,260 days (Rev. 11:3; 12:6) and with 42 months (Rev. 11:2; 13:5), means that in Jewish reckoning each month has 30 days and each year 360 days.
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This confirms the 360-day Jewish year used in the calculations in the chart, "The 483 Years in the Jewish and Gregorian Calendars" (near Dan. 9:26a). Since the events in the 69 sevens (vv. 24-26) were fulfilled literally, the 70th "seven," yet unfulfilled, must likewise be fulfilled literally.

The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures by Dallas Seminary Faculty.

9:27 We now come to the seventieth week. As mentioned previously, there is a time gap between the sixty-ninth and seventieth weeks. This parenthetical period is the Church Age, which extends from Pentecost to the Rapture. It is never mentioned specifically in the OT; it was a secret hidden in God from the foundation of the world but revealed by the apostles and prophets of the NT period. However, the principle of a gap is nicely illustrated by our Lord in the synagogue at Nazareth (Luke 4:18, 19). Jesus quoted Isaiah 61:1, 2a but cut it short at "the acceptable year of the Lord" (His First Advent), and left off the judgment of His Second Advent: "and the day of vengeance of our God" (Isa. 61:2b). In between was to occur the whole Church Age.
Then he (the Roman prince) shall confirm a covenant with many (the unbelieving majority of the nation of Israel) for one week (the seven-year Tribulation Period). It may be a friendship treaty, a non-aggression treaty, or a guarantee of military assistance against any nation attacking Israel.
But in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. The Roman prince will turn hostile toward Israel, forbidding further sacrifices and offerings to Jehovah.
And on the wing of abominations. We learn from Matthew 24:15 that he will set up an abominable idolatrous image in the temple and presumably he will command that it be worshiped. Some think that wing here refers to a wing of the temple.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
[video=youtube;vCsEMjpZZoo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCsEMjpZZoo[/video]
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I can see why you would say that the marriage of the Lamb is at Rev.19:7-9 " the marriage of the Lamb has come" and in v.9 "Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of he Lamb!" But, what follows is the Great Supper of God.19:17 "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God." v.11 "He (JESUS) judges and makes war". Not good to marry and go to war. Also. in 20:4 The martyrs are raised to life and they reign with us and with Christ for 1,000 yrs. If the marriage is in ch. 19 the martyrs will miss the wedding. And at the end of ch 20 the wicked dead are raised and sent to the lake of fire. All Jesus dirty work is now done, it is time to settle down and get married. Therefore, I conclude, the wedding is at ch.21:2 "Then, I John, saw the holy city, the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband," v9 "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife." I may be wrong, but it will be OK with me . because Jesus , my Husband, has it all under His control. Love to all. Hoffco

A Jewish Wedding lasts for a whole week, and we believe that is a week of years, the same week of years that is the 70th Week of Daniel. The wedding is ALWAYS held in the New Dwelling Place that the Bridegroom has to build in HIS FATHER's HOUSE. The WEDDING SUPPER is Always held in the Brides Old Dwelling Place the Evening of the last Day of the Wedding.
The martyrs do not miss all of the Wedding, as they arrive in spirit as each if beheaded.

Revelation is not completely written in chronological order. John used the writing style that many famous Newspaper writers use. Give them the Highlights or Overview up front to capture their attention, and the go back as many times as needed to fill in the Details.
 
P

popeye

Guest
I can see why you would say that the marriage of the Lamb is at Rev.19:7-9 " the marriage of the Lamb has come" and in v.9 "Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of he Lamb!" But, what follows is the Great Supper of God.19:17 "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God." v.11 "He (JESUS) judges and makes war". Not good to marry and go to war. Also. in 20:4 The martyrs are raised to life and they reign with us and with Christ for 1,000 yrs. If the marriage is in ch. 19 the martyrs will miss the wedding. And at the end of ch 20 the wicked dead are raised and sent to the lake of fire. All Jesus dirty work is now done, it is time to settle down and get married. Therefore, I conclude, the wedding is at ch.21:2 "Then, I John, saw the holy city, the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband," v9 "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife." I may be wrong, but it will be OK with me . because Jesus , my Husband, has it all under His control. Love to all. Hoffco

Therefore, I conclude, the wedding is at ch.21:2 "Then, I John, saw the holy city, the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband,
Other factore involved;
1 At the last supper Jesus mentioned the consumation would come in heaven at the drinking of the wine
2 "mansions"..."i go to prepare a place" are terms used in the jewish wedding. (this is in fact in heaven)
3Mat 25 has a door shut similar to Noah's ark (ark being a type of heaven)
4 That same ch has christians left behind (1/2 of them)......postrib problems galore.
5 lastly rev 20 does not have any martyrs raised to life....that dialog is simply referring to the "innumerable number' that John saw coming out of the gt. And the washed the filth from their robes (being the 5 foolish virgins)
IOW the AC is defeated and we can not have any more beheadings at the time of rev 20,besides ,how long were these martyrs seated on thrones??? 3 yrs?? 4 years?? 1 year??

I may be wrong, but it will be OK with me
That my friend is the best attitude. I also want to know if I am wrong
 
E

ELECT

Guest
My comments:

The "elect" are not the "church" in the context of Matthew 24 as many think, but the believing mortals of Israel who will survive the coming tribulation period .... the time of Jacob's trouble

Matthew 24 has nothing to do with today's "church"

The Lord will limit the time frame of the 70th week .... otherwise there would be be no elect saved .... Satan's beast would kill them all if given enough time

what! the elect is the church please prove what thou sayesth

who are cast in prison for ten days the churh or the Jews and when will this be ?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Other factore involved;
1 At the last supper Jesus mentioned the consumation would come in heaven at the drinking of the wine
2 "mansions"..."i go to prepare a place" are terms used in the jewish wedding. (this is in fact in heaven)
3Mat 25 has a door shut similar to Noah's ark (ark being a type of heaven)
4 That same ch has christians left behind (1/2 of them)......postrib problems galore.
5 lastly rev 20 does not have any martyrs raised to life....that dialog is simply referring to the "innumerable number' that John saw coming out of the gt. And the washed the filth from their robes (being the 5 foolish virgins)
IOW the AC is defeated and we can not have any more beheadings at the time of rev 20,besides ,how long were these martyrs seated on thrones??? 3 yrs?? 4 years?? 1 year??


That my friend is the best attitude. I also want to know if I am wrong
Noah ark was on the earth the ark represent Jesus not heaven
 
P

popeye

Guest
To Popeye, the ones left behind are lost. The only ones saved after the rapture are the 144,000 Jews. No one else will repent of sins as REV. teaches us. Love Hoffco
Does not fit the parable.

5 were rejected,(1/2)
They had "light" (lamps that worked)
They were without defilement,or,pure (virgins)
They waited and looked for their groom (Jesus)
If "not enough oil" means "not saved/lost" then they could not be "w/o defilement" or "Virgins"
Virgins says it all. Since when are the heathen pure and undefiled???
Not only that,where is it any where or any place consistent to tell some lost soul "go buy some salvation,from those who sell,but you are actually too late and will be rejected by Jesus?
I never heard of such a gospel
"the prodigal"...remember he was family,sold out (5 foolish) however he NEVER stopped being family.
 
P

popeye

Guest
Noah ark was on the earth the ark represent Jesus not heaven
Again,other factors;
God dealt with his own first.
God did zero deliverance post flood/postrib
The ark (a type of heaven) rose thousands of feet over the earth (as in the rapture)

Here is the clincher The ark returned with the saints postrib/flood NOBODY rises or is taken away Post flood/postrib.

You guys need a postrib deliverance. But that is only 1/2 what you need for you guys shoehorn the RETURN in with the deliverance.
You have no uturn event anywhere...none
"as it was in the days of noah" ....how can anyone MAKE a pretrib analogy postrib??????
You do know,I hope,there is nothing postrib in that analogy except noah coming BACK to earth???
This alone makes postrib rapture a virtual impossibility
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Again,other factors;
God dealt with his own first.
God did zero deliverance post flood/postrib
The ark (a type of heaven) rose thousands of feet over the earth (as in the rapture)

Here is the clincher The ark returned with the saints postrib/flood NOBODY rises or is taken away Post flood/postrib.

You guys need a postrib deliverance. But that is only 1/2 what you need for you guys shoehorn the RETURN in with the deliverance.
You have no uturn event anywhere...none
"as it was in the days of noah" ....how can anyone MAKE a pretrib analogy postrib??????
You do know,I hope,there is nothing postrib in that analogy except noah coming BACK to earth???
This alone makes postrib rapture a virtual impossibility

Are we going to be fruitful and multiply after acccording to your theory ?
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Again,other factors;
God dealt with his own first.
God did zero deliverance post flood/postrib
The ark (a type of heaven) rose thousands of feet over the earth (as in the rapture)

Here is the clincher The ark returned with the saints postrib/flood NOBODY rises or is taken away Post flood/postrib.

You guys need a postrib deliverance. But that is only 1/2 what you need for you guys shoehorn the RETURN in with the deliverance.
You have no uturn event anywhere...none
"as it was in the days of noah" ....how can anyone MAKE a pretrib analogy postrib??????
You do know,I hope,there is nothing postrib in that analogy except noah coming BACK to earth???
This alone makes postrib rapture a virtual impossibility

Why was not lot taken to heaven as in the days of Sodom so shall it be in the end also ?
 
P

popeye

Guest
why did God leave Israel in Egypt during the plagaues and did not take them to heaven ?
Remember,the big picture is;God's ppl leave israel to dwell in egypt. Then they RETURN to israel.(which is 180 degrees from the postrib model)
So,the captivity/bondage and subsequent deliverance is more a type of the first advent than the 2nd.

Although there are thousands of types in that story. (Joseph being "Jesus")
 
P

popeye

Guest
Why was not lot taken to heaven as in the days of Sodom so shall it be in the end also ?
WE do have a pretrib deliverance with lot. How does he fit a postrib scenario? And remember,postrib scenario needs a RETURN to the location of judgement seconds after the deliverance!!!
So,so,so impossible
 
E

ELECT

Guest
Remember,the big picture is;God's ppl leave israel to dwell in egypt. Then they RETURN to israel.(which is 180 degrees from the postrib model)
So,the captivity/bondage and subsequent deliverance is more a type of the first advent than the 2nd.

Although there are thousands of types in that story. (Joseph being "Jesus")

explain this

[h=1]Exodus 8:20-22King James Version (KJV)[/h]20 And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh; lo, he cometh forth to the water; and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Let my people go, that they may serve me.
21 Else, if thou wilt not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies upon thee, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people, and into thy houses: and the houses of the Egyptians shall be full of swarms of flies, and also the ground whereon they are.
22 And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the Lord in the midst of the earth.