It's not wrong to tell people to stop sinning or to stop in doing evil. What do you think repentance is all about? What is the difference between a believer and unbeliever by the way that they live? Do you think there are some really good law abiding familes who try to live good lives without Jesus? You betcha. So what really makes them better than say the believer who thinks they can sin and still be saved? Not much if they both sin and do not have a changed life whereby they have crucified the affections and lusts. For what you don't understand is that God's people are holy. Not some mumbo jumbo we are holy but yet we cannot prove it garbage. God's people are actually supposed to live holy and perfect lives (According to God's Word). For why are you fighting against that which is good? Would it not be better to believe God's Word so as to stop in sinning? What would that mean for your life if you had stopped sinning?
None Good...No Not One!
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Jason I'm going to ask you a simple yes or no question. No verses. No explaining yourself. Either yes or no. (Well, actually 2 cause I'm about to ask if you understand). So first, do you understand? And second, since you accepted Christ, have you ever once in your life did something wrong? Again it's either a yes or no question, and I would appreciate it if you could answer.
Well, if you don't believe the Scriptures I shown you, let me use a real world example to help you to relate to what I am trying to tell you. Why? Well, because Jesus used real world examples (i.e. parables). Alright, what you are basically saying is that it is okay to slip up into sin every now and then and that you will forever be a slave to your sin. In other words, when an alcoholic who is honestly struggling to stop in their addiction to alcohol, they are far better in doing the right thing versus say the alcoholic who could care less about stopping (or who thinks it is impossible to stop). So yes; Believers can indeed stop sinning those types of sins that lead unto death, such as hating, lying, lusting, and in getting drunk, etc. For it would be like telling an alcoholic that they will forever be engulfed in their addiction or that they can drink every once and a while. But lets look at the different options side by side.
Option #2. A person has slipped up on occasion in their honest struggle to stop on their road to recovery (From Alcoholism).
Option #3. A person who is Alcoholic believes they can not be an Alcoholic and yet still drink every once and a while on their road to recovery.
Option #4. A person who is Alcoholic believes they will forever be an alcoholic and yet their choice to not habitually drink makes them okay.
The first two options are Biblical and the last two options are not. For the believer who thinks they can habitually sin and still be saved is essentially saying you are a slave to your sin. Yet, Romans 8 says we are free from the Law of sin and death. In other words, sin will not have rule or dominion in a believer's life because Jesus lives in their heart and life. For the Scriptures say that Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.
Anyways, your beginning words in your response to me here totally reminds me of the disciples' reaction to the words of Jesus along with His reply back to them in Matthew 19.
Well, let's take a look at Ezekiel 36:26-27.
It says,
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
Did you see ? Here in this passage it is saying God will give a person a new heart and a new spirit and then God will place His Spirit within them and cause them to walk within His statutes (laws). So when a person repents of their sins for real and accepts Jesus, they are born again spiritually and they then have the power by the Spirit (working in them) to keep God's good ways (and or to stop sinning).
As for Romans 13:1-2 in regards to a breaking the traffic laws: Well, yes. Breaking the Traffic Laws would be a sin indeed. But doing so would not be a sin that leads unto death, though. For John speaks of sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (See 1 John 5:16-18). In fact, the Bible describes three different types of sins.
1. Sins that can never be forgiven.
(Like speaking bad against the Holy Ghost, committing suicide, and apostacy - i.e. rejecting Jesus).
2. Sins that lead unto death.
(i.e. These are the type of sins that Paul lists in the New Testament several times that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God like lying, adultery, murder, hate, stealing, idolatry, and drunkenness, etc.). (Why are they called sins that lead unto death? Because Paul says in Romans that they that do such things are worthy of death and because John lists the same type of sins in Revelation 21:8 whereby they that commit such sins will then be cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death).
3. Sins that do not lead unto death.
(i.e. These are sins that do not lead to spiritual death or destruction in the Lake of Fire. Such sins would include our hidden errors or secret faults as mentioned in Psalm 19:12. Such sins would include going over the speed limit a little (without thinking) and or breaking the traffic laws to rush your wife to the hospital. Such sins would be knowing that you could have done something better or good at your job but you failed to do it, etc.; In other words, they are the types of sins whereby a person falls short of the glory of God).
Anyways, with God, what you believe to be impossible is possible to do. Scripture talks about being sanctified by the Spirit and by the washing of the water of the Word. Scripture talks about us ceasing from sin. Scriptures identifies false believers as in them not ceasing from sin.
Hopefully my answer above will help to answer the issue if a believer stumbles on their road to overcoming sin. But nowhere does Scripture teach that a believer will forever be a slave to their sin whereby they will stumble forever.
As for 1 John 1:8: Again, the true believer is not saying they have no sin. They will admit they may at times commit sins that do not lead unto death that they may not be aware of. Some may even commit a sin that leads unto death. But they will not ignore like the Antinomian does, though. They will confess of that sin as per 1 John 1:9 says so as to be forgiven of that sinn. But the true believer will overcome sin or stop in their sinning that leads unto death, though. A believe is not slave to sin. Jesus said in John chapter 8 that he that sins is a slave to sin. He did not say this as if he was in favor with the Pharisees.
Anyways, I hope this helps.
And may God's love shine upon you today.
Option #1. A person is Alcohol free or Sober
Option #2. A person has slipped up on occasion in their honest struggle to stop on their road to recovery (From Alcoholism).
Option #3. A person who is Alcoholic believes they can not be an Alcoholic and yet still drink every once and a while on their road to recovery.
Option #4. A person who is Alcoholic believes they will forever be an alcoholic and yet their choice to not habitually drink makes them okay.
The first two options are Biblical and the last two options are not. For the believer who thinks they can habitually sin and still be saved is essentially saying you are a slave to your sin. Yet, Romans 8 says we are free from the Law of sin and death. In other words, sin will not have rule or dominion in a believer's life because Jesus lives in their heart and life. For the Scriptures say that Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.
Anyways, your beginning words in your response to me here totally reminds me of the disciples' reaction to the words of Jesus along with His reply back to them in Matthew 19.
"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:24-26).
Did you catch that? The disciples were shocked that a rich man could not enter into Heaven and they were thinking who then can be saved? Meaning, this sure is a tough road to salvation. Who can do it? Jesus response was with man this is impossible, but with God.... all things are possible. What does that mean?
Well, let's take a look at Ezekiel 36:26-27.
It says,
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."
Did you see ? Here in this passage it is saying God will give a person a new heart and a new spirit and then God will place His Spirit within them and cause them to walk within His statutes (laws). So when a person repents of their sins for real and accepts Jesus, they are born again spiritually and they then have the power by the Spirit (working in them) to keep God's good ways (and or to stop sinning).
As for Romans 13:1-2 in regards to a breaking the traffic laws: Well, yes. Breaking the Traffic Laws would be a sin indeed. But doing so would not be a sin that leads unto death, though. For John speaks of sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (See 1 John 5:16-18). In fact, the Bible describes three different types of sins.
1. Sins that can never be forgiven.
(Like speaking bad against the Holy Ghost, committing suicide, and apostacy - i.e. rejecting Jesus).
2. Sins that lead unto death.
(i.e. These are the type of sins that Paul lists in the New Testament several times that will cause a person to not inherit the Kingdom of God like lying, adultery, murder, hate, stealing, idolatry, and drunkenness, etc.). (Why are they called sins that lead unto death? Because Paul says in Romans that they that do such things are worthy of death and because John lists the same type of sins in Revelation 21:8 whereby they that commit such sins will then be cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death).
3. Sins that do not lead unto death.
(i.e. These are sins that do not lead to spiritual death or destruction in the Lake of Fire. Such sins would include our hidden errors or secret faults as mentioned in Psalm 19:12. Such sins would include going over the speed limit a little (without thinking) and or breaking the traffic laws to rush your wife to the hospital. Such sins would be knowing that you could have done something better or good at your job but you failed to do it, etc.; In other words, they are the types of sins whereby a person falls short of the glory of God).
Hopefully my answer above will help to answer the issue if a believer stumbles on their road to overcoming sin. But nowhere does Scripture teach that a believer will forever be a slave to their sin whereby they will stumble forever.
As for 1 John 1:8: Again, the true believer is not saying they have no sin. They will admit they may at times commit sins that do not lead unto death that they may not be aware of. Some may even commit a sin that leads unto death. But they will not ignore like the Antinomian does, though. They will confess of that sin as per 1 John 1:9 says so as to be forgiven of that sinn. But the true believer will overcome sin or stop in their sinning that leads unto death, though. A believe is not slave to sin. Jesus said in John chapter 8 that he that sins is a slave to sin. He did not say this as if he was in favor with the Pharisees.
Anyways, I hope this helps.
And may God's love shine upon you today.
I have already been over this with other people before. This is not Facebook or a let's discuss my life forum. Surely you can see the destructive nature of sharing too much about one's life these days. Also, my life does not change the truth that is in the Scriptures. If all but one man on this planet kept God's Word perfectly at some point in history (Besides Jesus), then it would prove you wrong. In fact, we know you are wrong because Scripture testifies that you are wrong because it says they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin (1 Peter 4:1). Hence, why you do not want to discuss it. We are on a Bible Discussion forum and not a... "Let's Talk About My Life" Forum. So I will ask you to discuss the Bible seeing we are on a Bible Discussion Forum.
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Umm... Every post on this site is about taking about life. If it's not, how do you fellowship with people on here? No where did I ask for your life story. All I asked was if you have ever done anything wrong (something even very, very, very tiny) since you accepted Christ. Clearly, you over thought it, and this is the best (if you even want to call it that) I am gonna get out of you. So yeah... I'm gonna tap out of this conversation now and call it a day. Your post answered it all for me. By the way, if you're perfect and have never sinned since coming to Christ, then how would it be "destructive nature" on your part? Can you not do any wrong?
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As for 1 John 1:8: Again, the true believer is not saying they have no sin. They will admit they may at times commit sins that do not lead unto death that they may not be aware of. Some may even commit a sin that leads unto death. But they will not ignore like the Antinomian does, though. They will confess of that sin as per 1 John 1:9 says so as to be forgiven of that sinn. But the true believer will overcome sin or stop in their sinning that leads unto death, though. A believe is not slave to sin. Jesus said in John chapter 8 that he that sins is a slave to sin. He did not say this as if he was in favor with the Pharisees.
Anyways, I hope this helps.
And may God's love shine upon you today.[/QUOTE]
Jason this paragraph is what we have been saying to you all alone, but you would not here us.
So you finally admit that a saved person can and does sin from time to time without losing their salvation.
Nothing but a cop out......the reason you wont answer is two fold......the bible says to confess your faults one to another....
You wont answer because..
A. You would have to lie so as to not blow your false theology out of the water
B. If you tell the truth and admit your a sinner that sins you will blow your theology out of the water...
Quite simple at the end of the day........!
You wont answer because..
A. You would have to lie so as to not blow your false theology out of the water
B. If you tell the truth and admit your a sinner that sins you will blow your theology out of the water...
Quite simple at the end of the day........!
G
1 Pet 4:1~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
I know many people who have suffered tremendously in the flesh and still sin. And I know a lot of Christians, who did NOT sin WHILE they were suffering. That is the key.
This verse shows that we can suffer in the flesh and cease to sin while we are enduring the suffering. We can arm ourselves and keep from sinning in our suffering. Most people sin when in a suffering environment.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]1~~ Therefore, as Christ has suffered for us[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]in the sphere of His human body . . .[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]train and equip yourselves likewise with the same mind.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]For He that has suffered in the flesh has paused sin.
[/FONT]How does the believer put a "pause" on sin, and suffer righteously? 1 John 1:9.
All sin is when we are out of fellowship with the Spirit.
This verse has nothing to do with sinless perfection. It is showing how to suffer(undeservedly) in the flesh and not sin while we are suffering.
Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,
I know many people who have suffered tremendously in the flesh and still sin. And I know a lot of Christians, who did NOT sin WHILE they were suffering. That is the key.
This verse shows that we can suffer in the flesh and cease to sin while we are enduring the suffering. We can arm ourselves and keep from sinning in our suffering. Most people sin when in a suffering environment.
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]1~~ Therefore, as Christ has suffered for us[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]in the sphere of His human body . . .[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]train and equip yourselves likewise with the same mind.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Times New I2]For He that has suffered in the flesh has paused sin.
[/FONT]How does the believer put a "pause" on sin, and suffer righteously? 1 John 1:9.
All sin is when we are out of fellowship with the Spirit.
This verse has nothing to do with sinless perfection. It is showing how to suffer(undeservedly) in the flesh and not sin while we are suffering.
Lop
Can you explain the Bible verses I brought up? That's what will determine the truth here. If won't explain them, I am going to assume you either:
(A) You don't know how to explain them.
(B) Your explanation on those verses is too weak to support your view.
(C) You are just flat out ignoring those verses in what they say.
For the Bible is the standard of determining truth. It is not a person's life experience.
(A) You don't know how to explain them.
(B) Your explanation on those verses is too weak to support your view.
(C) You are just flat out ignoring those verses in what they say.
For the Bible is the standard of determining truth. It is not a person's life experience.
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S
You are so far out of whack on this dude. We are to strive for personal holiness which is a far cry from the holiness that God possesses. We are in a race, there is a finish line with a cheering crowd at the end of it....but you're not there yet. Much life ahead of you and you are so filled with pride that I worry about the fall that awaits you. Wake up man, take the blinders off, stop being such a blowhard fool and get on your knees before Jesus.